Well, I'll just say that I feel so much safer now that those hard core criminal's with no flags are chased down with the full force of authority.

BTW: How much does it cost to replace a crushed front end on a BLM Ranger? Should we increase the parking fee?

Vor

The reallity is, for the general duning public, we have no problem with them chasing down people with no flags or enforcing any other law. I for one laugh at every person I see getting a ticket for not having one. They kinda asked for it. The perception problem they have is from people that dont think there should be laws and rules. And if there are laws and rules, they should be only the ones(I) agree with. Its very simple, if you follow the rules you can have no problem with the enforcement of the rules. I cant myself think of one rule or law at glamis that is un-needed... Well OK, no open containers in ice chest is pretty lame.

In my never to be humble opinion, the people complaining about the LEO's enforcment of the rules, will contribute as much as the violaters of the rules when it comes time to close Glamis down.

I have several problems with the rangers and LEOs "racing" their vehicles. First off, isn't it against LEO rules to run the lights and sirens without due cause? They sure can't do it on the street. Secondly, they were abusing the vehicles that WE pay for. I would much rather OUR money go towards improvements at the dunes than repairs to government vehicles. How wide were the drags? I sure hope they were at least 50 feet from the crowd... or else they broke the rules.

Bottom line, they are there to do a job. That job does not include breaking laws or rules for the sake of putting on a show. Yes, I have a problem with the law being "above" the law.

I don't have any problem with this "one time" ranger drag race. We ask them to use discretion in dealing with our infractions, and I think we can let one event like this slide. :wink:

I was there and I think it was GREAT!!!
It happened shortly after an accident and we all thought they were coming to shut the drags down, instead they "cruised" the drags. They were not going fast and not abusing their vehicles. I think it was a great show of support to the dune communtiy. And maybe made some of the younger crowd realize that they are cool people too, they are just there to do a job, so there is no need to be pinheads to them. :spin:

Doug, I mean no dis-respect. really I dont. But I really believe there are many on this board that are so anti-LEO that they will complain regardless of what they do. The LEO's did nothing that they stop us from doing. We are aloud to race. They do however stop us from racing when they feel it is becoming dangerous. As a parent would stop a child from jumping a bicycle when it becomes dangerous.

Now I would agree completly with you if the Leo's were there writing tickets to everyone racing and then raced themselves. But they aren't and they weren't.

You are right, they are there to do a job. Thats great, then why do so many here complain when they do it? Then, in this case they ignore the law, or realize it's not a safty issue, and they still get critisized. Would they be critisized if they had shut the drags down completly. Of course they would. They cannot win.

I can tell you this, and I know the LEO's on this board will agree, in the day to day life of a cop, there are times when you see someone breaking the law and you let it go. Sometimes better, more popular judgement is to ingnore it.

The BLM Rangers have never been and will never be my parents
This is the crux of my problem with them. They are the authority so they know best... BULL... Just like the idiot 23 year old cop who pulled my sister over and proceded to lecture me about how to drive. HE'S a trained professional so I had BETTER listen to him...
They DON'T know best. They have no clue to the duner community and they don't care one whit.
This trip down the drags is like you said, PARENTS trying to look cool for the kids.
I'm tired of being patronized.

Vor

I for one do not think there was anything wrong with what the LEO's did. Public perception of them is important and I think they gained a lot of respect from those who might have held them in a dim light before. Yes, they are there to do a job, when it needs to be done, but let us not forget they are just people to. Descretion is a major issue with the LEO's and i guarantee if we start pointing fingers on little infractions we will all be on the losing end. Zero tollarance sucks for everyone!! (LEO included). The only people that receive tickets, usually desires them...and I for one would like to keep it that way!

Argueing the LEO issue with some people is like argueing the ATV issue with bluesky. No matter what you say, the mind is closed and the fact that someone else may know more is a non issue. We have offered bluesky a day in the dunes many times, perhaps the anti-leo's should go on a ride along. Knowledge is amazing.

i think not having a flag on your bike is a good reason for chasing someone down.

Voice of Reason,
I am new to this forum, so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot and yes you are entilted to your own opinion, But it seems tom is right. I work in law enforcement and it just seems no matter what anyone in LE does they will always be wrong in your opinion .Let's just hope it doesn't take one of them risking their life to save your life for you to realize that they are just doing a job and they are human as well. :wink:

I normally enjoy and respect the posts of VOR and KG, but on this issue they are dead wrong. If someone flew up a dune without a flag and landed on top of your rail, you would probably drill em. If a drunk dumbass on a quad slammed into your daughter, you would probably blame the LOE's for not preventing that. Typical LEO haters, sleep well at night knowing they are out there protecting you and your family, yet despise the job they have to do. For someone that calls themselves VOR, I just don't understand you thoughts. I do, however understand you have a right to your opinion, just as I do.
Mike

The only reason any law enforcement is out there is because of the truckloads of kooks. Let's point some of the hard feelings toward every Expedition piled with high school kids. Here is a rule that should be implemented: No more than 3 people per OHV in a given camp. 86 the kook kamps and you 86 the Law presence.

Duner Dog,
Those were my thoughts as well this afternoon when I was on the forum. I agree with what you said. VOR there is nothing wrong with going out for a long weekend and having a good time, just play by the rules like everybody else is and when you don't that is why the LEO's are at the dunes for the bonheads that feel they can do whatever they want. Stop and think about the total mayhem there would be if there was no LEO presence at the Dunes not even mentioning the lack of medical attention in case of an accident. Like I said, this is just my 2 cents worth. Everbody is entitled to their own opinion. Have fun, Be safe, See Yaaaaaaaaaaaaa:burn:

If the LEOs had enforced the rules about 6-7 years ago, we wouldnt have to deal with NEW laws that are the same as the old laws.

I thought they were there to serve and protect,
Not race and recreate,
on my dime...

RoostKing...

If Dumbasses didn't break certain rules, especially safety rules, then LEO's wouldn't have to pull them over and enforce them. New or old. Normally when we see a new rule it is because a dumbass did something pretty stupid. For some reason we need to prevent dangerous people from harming inocent people. I thin our country is the best at finding a good middle ground between Martial Law and Anarchy. I suppose our different opinions help keep it that way.

Hey Dunner Dog, I agree with you 100%,
Roost King, everybody it entilted to their opinion, but read my latest response to this post . I 'm not going to beat a dead horse. I will say I hope you are never on the aid recieving end of an LEO your gonna feel really sillywhen you look up abd see this guy their to give you medical or legal assistance. It's a shame that this is what it will take to change your opinion.
8)

Apparently you didnt read mine.

Ever hear the saying "Nip it in the bud???" If the LEOS would have nipped it in the bud years ago, we would not have the problems we have now. I dont have a problem with being pulled over for safety violations(even if they dont impact anybody but me, but thats a different post)But when they shut down more and more of the dunes as a "cure" for the problem they let get out of control, then I am going to bunk on them. Its just easier to shut then to find a real solution LIKE ENFORCING THE SAME LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS. How hard is that? Hard, apparently. And once the govt gets a budget, by GAWD, they wont let it go, but you know that, as your on the tax payers dime... And youl ike over time, as do the LEOS at Glamis.

Or to simplify it for you, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE LEOS HELP ANYBODY IF THEY ARE DRAG RACING??? Oh, they were on break. I got it...

Not to mention the time I saw off-duty cops(They are friends of a board member here) riding with no flag and get chased into his camper by a BLM cop.. He was evading arrest, but when he sheepishly came out the trailer, he brought his badge, thus he was let go. i lost A LOT of respect for cops that day. They expect us to bow down to them, but they flaunt the rules.

RoostKing...

And were talking about 2 different things here. I dont mind havig cops around, i dont want to get robbed or whatever either(which should have been gotten under control years ago, before it got out of control), but this thread is about using OUR money to have fun on OUR Time. We pay them, yet they are playing, and some of you thinks its cool. Cops especially.

Roostking...

Roost King,
First of all , you are entitled to your opinion which I have no problem. Take it easy before you have a heart attack.There are good and bad in everyone and everything. I guess what I was trying to say is that everyone is human no matter what line of work they are in. As for monies not being use for trail recreation your preaching to the wrong person. NYS has been putting it to the off road community since I have been riding for the last 17 years. I can understand your beef about the LEO's but to condem all that wear a uniform because of what you witnessed I don't think it's fair. Well that's just my 2 cents. Like I said you are entilted to your opinion. I didn't come on to this site to argue with anyone, just to get some info on toy haulers and see what the other side of the country is up to. I haven't been back out in california since I moved back to NY since 1980. Don't ask me why I moved back because I still don't know. See Yaaaaa

Say what you want about them racing. But the idea that they are wasting our precious tax dollars is BS! I'm wasting you tax dollars right now! I'm sure a few other people on this board are too.
What, like they could have spent that gas money on building a new school or library?

Well, here's an old thread brought to life by some new guys! Great to see the new posts. Sorry I didn't notice this thread until now.

Let's see, I heard mention that "I need to go on a ride along." apparantly suggesting that I cannot appreciate all the things that the LEO's do for us and just how hard their job is.
Let's clear one thing up right now. I have absolutely no issues with ANY LEO on a personal level. I'm sure that a ride along would be quite entertaining, very informitive, and possibly even fun. I know several cops, most of which are great guys. I already fully appreciate the difficulty of their job. They are doing what they are told.

I also heard mention of the "life saving" capabilities of the LEO's. My stand on this issue is going to make alot of you mad but guess what, I don't NEED those life saving capabilities. I didn't ask for them. I don't EXPECT them, and I'm tired of paying for them. I go to Glamis fully prepared to "take care of myself". It is, after all, a WILDERNESS AREA. Now, of course you are going to mention that not all the users of the Glamis area are as prepared as I am and those people need protection. Ok, I'll give you that. But you should understand that by increasing the rescue capabilities and the law enforcement capabilities of the BLM in the Glamis area you are basicly telling the public that it is OK to come here and we will take care of you as well as we do in the city. This causes MORE people, people who are NOT PREPARED and don't know HOW TO ACT, to come to Glamis.
I would say that the one thing that has change Glamis the MOST is the increased law enforcement.

Please, do not mistake my outragous opinions of "The LEO's" as some sort of "hate" for cops. It's not like that at all. I am opinionated about the LAW ENFORCEMENT TACTICS AND PROCEDURES that are used at Glamis. I have no issue whatsoever with ANY of the LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS and have always found them, in my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, to be quite professional.
It should also be noted that there is a HUGE difference between spouting opinions here on this board and real life. I always treat ANY LEO with respect, and you should too.

I was not there so wether they were abusing their equipment or not, i dont know. i do know however that they are doing an absolutely necissary service. Some people have said that they should have enforced the rules and they wouldnt have had to close the hills at night to make things safe, the thing is, out at the hills at night things get so chaotic and on the big weekends there are so many people that they outnumber the LEO's 40 to 1.. it gets hard for them when the crowds out there can get so out of hand that at sometimes it would practically be suicide for an officer to try and break things up. Ive seen groups so out of hand that they litterally broke all the lights of a truck that got stuck, beat on the windows, and threw beer bottles at the truck, just because the guy got his two wheel drive truck stuck in the middle of the parade line at oldsmobile... this is the point in which things get out of hand, a ranger vehicle started over to break things up and was pelted with beer bottles and cans, completely messing up the SUV.. i cant even imagine what would have happened if they had gotten out of the car.. i mean the crowd practically turned into a riot... if people would just mellow out, not get out of hand and just have fun racing up the hill, showing off their rides and the "show your tits" signs that so many people have out there, the LEO's would not have to shut down the hills... yeah i think the no open containers in the vehicle law is a little strict but, i mean id be pretty pissed if i got in an accident with someone who didnt have a flag because i couldnt see them over the dune, and hell say i was in my sandrail and creamed some guy on a dirtbike without a flag because i couldnt see him over a dune, and he with the way society is these days, decided to sue me for hitting him id be pretty ticked... wouldnt all of you? or say if a drunk someone on a dirtbike and ended up killing them, you would all be asking why the LEO's hadnt caught him... These are all just my thoughts and opinions. Everyone have fun, dune safe, respect authority, and maybe theyd open the hills up at night on the big weekends again.......

-Ryan

I don't really want to get in on this at all, but I'm going to anyways.

Don't blame just teenagers for the problems at Glamis. I understand MOST teenagers do cause a problem, but you can't stereotype every single one of them. I (a teenger) have never committed a crime or done anything against a cop whatsoever. Its the drunk idiots in Glamis ( whether there teenagers or 40 year old men), that cause a problem for a cop. I would never, in my life, think of throwing a beer bottle or beat on the side of a cop car. That man or woman that is in that police car, could possibly save your life one day, and your throwing stuff at it. That person could very well see you dying on the side of a dune and notice that you once threw a bottle at a police car, and not give you one bit of help. But they do anyways, because that is there job, that is what they do. And after your saved from that side of a dune, you will think, if it wasn't for that cop that I threw a beer can at, I wouldn't be sitting there.

I 100% agree that there should not be any open container in a truck ( you can't do it on the streets, you shouldn't do it in the dunes). Some of you may think this is a bad idea because you do drink in the truck. But its safer for the cops and yourself. If somebody slammed into you and they were drunk, I doubt you'd say, well I drink in my truck to, its ok, and help the guy up! If it wasn't for the stupid ass's that would dig ditches and throw beer cans at people that fell into those ditches. We wouldn't be argueing this at the moment. Personally, if somebody got stuck, I, and probably every single member of GD.com, would do everything I can to help that person get out of being stuck, maybe, because I'm a nice guy and want it to be done in return, or just that he may pull my ass out of a whole one day. I wouldn't throw beer and bash the side of the car in, cause I thought it was funny. Those people, wheter there teenagers are not, need to grow up and become mature.

DON'T BLAME THE LAW ENFORMENT FOR NOT BREAKING DOWN ON CRIMINALS, BLAME THE CRIMINALS THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEM.



Andy

It's all the Kooks! You can see em all on the Quicksand videos. Which, by the way, is encouraging this behavior. Bottles-brought to the hills in a truck (can't put bottles in a sixpack rack) by a bunch of idiots(kids or not) who don't know or don't care about the no bottle law. What dumbass takes bottles camping anyhow? Way more weight. Especially as trash.
All those F-ers digging ditches and swarming stuck trucks are obviously not out there riding. 1. They have no respect for other peoples vehicles because they don't have one. 2. I never stray far from my quad when hanging out at the hills. These mofos walk around looking for a party or some S to stir up.
I like the plan to stop trucks from getting to the hills. If you can't dune there, you can't be there!

WOW!! This turned out to be pretty cool thread!! I pretty much agree with what most everone's opinion on this subject. To me it sounds like a judgement call on the senior officer to create good relations with the public, up until needless damage to the vehicles occur. Although I do agree with VOR with them being hell bent on chasing you down. I was chased down while entering vendor's alley to purchase a flag, by a LEO sitting on a hill like a vulture. My only violation was not having a flag, and after explaining to him my mission and intentions of coming to vendor's alley for the sole reason to putchase one, ya think that he may have cut me a little slack. Hell no!! The prick harrassed me then gave me a ticket!! :rant: :rant: Although I've had more negative experiences (no I'm NOT a trouble maker) than good , I however do understand that not ALL LEO's are buttheads.

[quote]we will take care of you as well as we do in the city.[/quote]

That should make us all feel much better. Chevota's experience is typical of what we get in the city.

QUOTE

I'm NOT a trouble maker

lenord you ain't got to lie to kick it!! j/k. everywhere you go there is going to be troublesome crowds. I like to watch quicksand videos because I like to see the girls, rides and the wrecks. everyone out there should treat everyone like they want to be treated. I don't want my truck beat in (even though I don't have one yet) so I don't beat in others. if I am stuck or out of gas I hope... hope that they would help me out. So I help who needs it. Ya some people are stuck and it is funny watching them spin the tires and dig them selves in a whole. but the truck has to get out of my riding space so I help them out.

the part about the sheriffs and the rangers having a good time on paying time..... SO WHAT!! they do something fun no one got hurt. LEA's need to keep a visual presence to remind the people who have a conshenes (ya spell check didn't help me out) will know that the cops are there When we are on the boat we need to make our own entertainment. so should we sit around bored for the hours that we are waiting for airplanes to come back from flying. I know about everyone on this board has abused something at sometime to get a thrill. even if it is flipping burgers and taste testing all the condiments on a burger. it is not like they do this everyday. plus CHP has a top fuel dragster because it intimidates and is a plablisity ( I'm not a very good speller) stunt. :pimp:

Come on! The LEO's do one little harmless drag race and people get bent out of shape saying its a waste of tax payers money. Its not like the lEO's do this on a frequent basis. It was ONE race. Get over it! I think its great. Maybe, just maybe, those LEO's will now have a better understanding of our love for the dunes.

Wow now that was alot of reading! The only thing I have to say is that if they raced once, they have done it before. Your tellin me that if you became a BLM and uncle sam gave you a brand new funco you wouldn't go out and test it's capabilities a little? If you said no your full of $hit! To some people viewing this out in the dune's you might think that this new BLM officer and his newlly accuired toy are wasting your tax dollar's. Just imagine what they do when YOU are not there! This is a sad world we live in! :vader:

[quote]I know about everyone on this board has abused something at sometime to get a thrill. [/quote]

Man rubber, I told you not to tell.

VOR [quote], I don't NEED those life saving capabilities. I didn't ask for them. I don't EXPECT them, and I'm tired of paying for them. I go to Glamis fully prepared to "take care of myself. [/quote]


Now I don't know you and don't want to piss you off here but what if you are involved in a serious accident and need medical attention right away? Are you going to turn them down? Just because YOU are prepared doesn't mean the other person will be just as prepared. Do you carry oxygen and IV's just in case? Probably not.
Now the issue of them drag racing should be looked at as they are out there enjoying themselfs just as you are. If there is no abuse of the equipment then no fowl! I would rather the LEO be out there and have a good time instead of a GRUMPY guy that had a fight with the wife and is out to get anyone he can find to vent his anger.
How many times have you seen a CHP doing 80+ on the freeway for no reason? I see that all the time and it pisses me off! I myself am in the law-enforcement industry and if I was caught I would get a couple days off for that.. Never let the authority the state has given you override what is right and wrong! Get all the info you can on the officer and call in to his office, I guarantee it will get back to him. EXAMPLE- we had a guy run a red light in a service vehicle and was caught by the camera and video, He had no lights and siren's on and clearly ran the light. RESULT- 1 month suspension!! Is it too stiff of a penalty? NO. what if he caused a fatal accident? Wrong is Wrong!! OK I am done venting here, I need a donut![/quote][quote][/quote]

QUOTE

QUOTE I know about everyone on this board has abused something at sometime to get a thrill. Man rubber, I told you not to tell.

Just keep your palms shaved and no one will know. :shock:

Nobody is even interested in the most important part of this topic? :?

Who won the race? :mrgreen: :bounce:

yeah really, who won anyways?

When I go to the desert we go with a cop, and hes shure doesnt act like it