Someone sent me an email to encourage me to use a builder who supports the non-profits that are helping to keep the dunes open. This could be ASA, Duners, Off Road Business, etc.

Which companies actually donate cash on a regular basis for example to the ASA? If these groups are non-profit org's is this information available to the public through disclosures?

Everyone talks about supporting the dunes, but I wonder which builders dig deep to give and which have a basic membership...........

Good question!

But also remember that there are more ways to donate other than cash. There have been several sand rails built over the last few years for the ASA, ORBA and FoOD, and many builders and parts manufacturers have contributed to those efforts.

Consider also those people that donate time and other non-cash support. I know Grant is (pretty sure he still is) the President of the ASA.

Some info here on ASA sponsors.

Buckwheat. Thanks. That is helpful. Can someone define the various ASA star giving levels? I have considered non-cash giving, but those are very apparent through the donor cars, bikes, quads, golf carts, but CASH giving is the life blood of any non-profit org. Just wondering.

40-
The books have always been open for inspection....not sure who has them right now though (it used to be Mark Harms from STU). Drop Grant an email and I'm sure he'd be happy to let you know, or even just give you the info

And not sure on the sponsorship "levels" (though I believe it's $1000, $500, $250 and a basic at $50) but Jim Colln (sanduners) would be the person to ask about that.

I was right on the amounts-the info is here:

http://www.americansandassociation.org/spo...join/index.html

luvdunin. Thanks. I will pursue that. I am surprised this topic is not brought up more often here. Everyone talks about giving, support those that do, but I want to know who actually kicks out the CASH. Giving CASH is painful and if I can, I prefer to give my hard earned funds to those that make a considerable effort to invest in this sport that funds their businesses and lifestyles.

I just received an interesting communication regarding this subject and that it is basically unofficial taboo. Was also told I may be very surprised at which businesses do not donate even a small fraction of their profits to help keep the dunes open. I don't want to open a hornets nest, but this person says if I push this, there would be people who are not very happy and a million reasons why they do not donate cash would be the common denominator of excuses.

Interesting thought pattern I do admit...........

I can understand your thinking-help those who are helping us duners

Funny-I don't see "Speedtrap" on that list....maybe I'll go check out some other orgs.....I'm sure there's a donation SOMEWHERE :blurry:

Oops...we posted at the same time...

That response was to your first response, not what you just posted.

Cash, time, donations...It's all good. That was the first thing I looked up when deciding who was going to build my next ride.

Do tell... I would like to know. PM me if don't want to post the details here.

I have spoken to builders in the past about this issue. There are many reasons why some donate and some dont. It really is up to the builder to decide what he feels is best for his business. many business donate to the verious orgs, Orba, ASA, DUNERs, CORVA and whoever else.
In my opinion, the fact that they donate or not would not sway my choice to use them or not.

I could be wrong but, I dont think most donate to be good duners, but rather look at it stricktly as an advertising expense. There is a difference. To me, donations are empty. What I mean is, take away the tax deductions and how many donations would you still see? How many would have donated to the give-a-way cars if not for the deductions?
I asked one builder why he stopped donateing to an annual Glamis event. He told me he didnt see a return on his dollar. So it clearly was NOT a donation but advertising.

Dont get me wrong, props to the companies that do donate. It helps. But for me, it just doesnt put you on a higher level than those who dont donate.

[/quote]

I have spoken to builders in the past about this issue. There are many reasons why some donate and some dont. It really is up to the builder to decide what he feels is best for his business. many business donate to the verious orgs, Orba, ASA, DUNERs, CORVA and whoever else.
In my opinion, the fact that they donate or not would not sway my choice to use them or not.

I could be wrong but, I dont think most donate to be good duners, but rather look at it stricktly as an advertising expense. There is a difference. To me, donations are empty. What I mean is, take away the tax deductions and how many donations would you still see? How many would have donated to the give-a-way cars if not for the deductions?
I asked one builder why he stopped donateing to an annual Glamis event. He told me he didnt see a return on his dollar. So it clearly was NOT a donation but advertising.

Dont get me wrong, props to the companies that do donate. It helps. But for me, it just doesnt put you on a higher level than those who dont donate.
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I absolutely could not disagree more. Donating to the ASA in not only about "advertising your product"…It's also about saving the sport in which you make your living. If the dunes go away, there will be no need for the dunning product. One look at the Imperial Dunes map will show everyone how much of an assault "we" are under. If people and business don't start pony-ing up to help save the dunes, they will reap what they sow. JMHO.

Zilla

As I dust off, and climb onto my soap box....


This is frustrating at many levels. Honda, Suzuki etc make more off this sport than a buggy builder, yet they donate virtually nothing. Large buggy builders donate virtually nothing...only a small few step up.

I find more and more small companies donating more than the large. For example....VW Country stepped up to build our 2006 raffle car for Friends of Oceano Dunes (FoOD). They are a small company, yet they are doing more than the majority...same goes for Scott at Metal Craft Motorsports.

Funco has given, and Grant donates a lot of time...which should be applauded. More need to help.

Several always donate...Mendeola, Turnkey, PRP, FOX, Douglas Wheel, Sand Tires Unlimited etc...


You want to make a non-profit happy....donate large sums of money so they do not have to spend 80% of their time trying to raise money so they can get 20% of the work done! Or donate your time, to allow them to focus on the more important issues.

I get very upset when I hear: "I don't have time to do this or that" refering to letter writing, going to Sacramento, picking up trash, passing out flyers etc... YET, these same people can spend hours polishing their wheels or posting on here!

Or...I can't afford to donate right now...then show up with a new RV or buggy or ???


Step up and share the load!

Lawyers and lobbyists average $2,000 to $10,000 a month depending on the issue at hand and sometimes more.

If everyone who reads this donated $100 to their favorite Non-profit...it would help!

EVERYONE has something to offer...money, time, talent, equipment, contacts etc






Steps down off of soapbox and pushes it into corner....

As Sandzilla posted (I was on another phone call speaking with someone about this thread), I could not disagree more with this poster. There are not many reasons why the builders do not give, there is one main reason, they are selfish in giving outside themselves. Having done work for many non-profits at various levels I fully understand why people give and do not give. Most people have to be taught to be givers, but this is not the way of this generation, the ME generation. My children are taught to give and they do give to non-profits and they receive ZERO tax breaks or incentives to do so, they just have been taught what the fundanmental issues are in life regarding giving. After reviewing the ASA giving list on the ASA sight from Luvdunin, I can say my now 18 year old college student daughter gives more to her non-profit charity of choice than do MANY of the businesses that POST frequently on this board, WHOM make a living off the dunes. TomSimrak has provided the exact excuses I referred to, that is many of these people do not understand giving. Frankly, I and more of my duner friends are actively looking at this in helping to make decisions. I don't own a Joe Fab Sand Limo and probably won't, but I can tell from the ASA giving list that Joe gives more than a multitude of other businesses and continues to do so. I could care less if he gives because of a tax break or knowing that his life blood comes from this business (he does). He GIVES and GIVING MEANS SOMETHING TO ME.

It would be a start if more of us would ask a business if they are doing anything to keep our dunes open. A little subtle pressure can go al ong ways.....

I just cut and pasted these Four Star giving businesses from the ASA link provided by Luvdunin. Let me say, just because you are not a 4 Star giver does not mean you are less than, but for the sake of space I just posted these. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but to get to this giving level you require a $1000 annual donation? Out of this list (someone correct me if I am wrong), but it looks like there are only 5 buggy builders on the list? To me that is amazing. Simply amazing.

Beard Seats Anaheim CA (714) 774-9444
Car Craft Inc Riverside CA (951) 781-4480
Chapman Scottsdale Autoplex Scottsdale AZ (480) 424-3500
D&D Motor Sports Mesa AZ (602) 421-2359
Downs Commercial Fueling Inc Temecula CA (951) 506-4545
Downs Commercial Fueling Inc Corona CA (909) 810-3835
Extreme Performance Grand Terrace CA (909) 825-0101
Fullerton Sand Sports Stanton CA (714) 484-5977
Funco Motorsports Rialto CA (909) 421-2558
Funrunner Whittier CA (562) 945-2180
Holiday Printing City Of Industry CA (626) 912-6008
Karl's Custom Mesa AZ (480) 827-8052
Karl's Custom Phoenix AZ (602) 956-0234
Kennedy Engineered Products Palmdale CA (661) 272-1147
Lazer Star Billet Lights Anaheim CA (800) 624-6234
Mendeola Transaxles Chula Vista CA (619) 691-1000
Off Road Business Association (ORBA) Lakeside CA (619) 443-9101
Progressive Trailers Phoenix AZ (800) 500-1405
Ricochet Motorsports Phoenix AZ (623) 486-7082
San Diego Off-Road Coalition (SDORC) Santee CA (619) 561-3877
Sand Limo Apache Junction AZ (480) 966-1046
Sand Sports Super Show Brea CA (714) 990-5107
Sand Tires Unlimited Temecula CA (951) 296-6215
Sandrails Unlimited Canoga Park CA (818) 701-5435
Sport Trailers San Bernardino CA (909) 888-5003
Thar Customs Phoenix AZ (602) 870-0882
Walt's Motorsports & Marine Lake Havasu City AZ (800) 317-5019
Warrior Manufacturing Perris CA (800) 500-9914
White Bros

Dont hate the messanger...I am a paid member of ASA and DUNERs.


And ZERO motorcycle companies.

No hate at all, just a valid point from your post. I am in the process of deciding whom to choose to build my LT car and thought I would just fill in one of the boxes on the long list of items I have to go over in my mind. This is in Sandrail Technical because I am buying a car most likely from a business who is involved in the dunes. Do they have to be a 4 Star giver? Absolutely not, but I thought this would be a good lightning rod to really see who does give.

Careful. This is just the ASA list. Some others that aren't on the list may be an ORBA member.....

To be fair, you'd almost have to come up with a master list for all organizations. That would be interesting to see.

I made it a point of being just the ASA, but that list was readily available to me. It is the most visible though as far as the dunes go. I believe all non-profits should publish the list of business givers as well. It certainly helps bring clarity to see whom gives and who does not.

Does ORBA, Duners, San Diego Off Road Coalition, OCEANO publish a list like the ASA does?

There are some NOTABLE builders who POST here often who are not listed as 4 Star or even 3 Star givers to the ASA. It is possible they give thousands to other groups, but I would like to see this for my own eyes.

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That's a big flag for sure... And I wonder why that is so? Anybody have an idea????

Zilla

I was just going to address that issue. Although many dont donate to ASA, they may donate to other orgs...ORBA, CORVA, Cal 4 Wheel, DUNERs, any of the friends of orgs...the list goes on. If you want someone that donates to your favorite org, thats fine, but dont discount them because they arent on the ASA list.
This may be a little hard to believe...but not everyone agrees with the style, message, or beliefs of the various orgs. Lets use DUNERs as an example(that way Im not accused of ASA bashing) Not every builder agrees with how DUNERs operates. Funco for example does not donate to DUNERs nor does Sand Cars Unlimited and some others. That does not make them bad. They are putting their money where they feel it will help the most. Both in business and in saving the dunes. Others feel the money is best served going to DUNERs or any one of the other orgs. They choose not to donate to ASA.

Im just saying, dont discount them because they are not on a donation list.

The motorcycle companies are huge monsters and while they should give, I want to keep this thread on why many of the buggy companies do not give. They earn almost their entire profit from the dunes.



[quote=Sandzilla,Jun 8 2005, 11:19 AM]
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That's a big flag for sure... And I wonder why that is so? Anybody have an idea????

Zilla
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I Gotcha... I was just curious.


[quote=40 PSI,Jun 8 2005, 10:31 AM]
The motorcycle companies are huge monsters and while they should give, I want to keep this thread on why many of the buggy companies do not give. They earn almost their entire profit from the dunes.



[quote=Sandzilla,Jun 8 2005, 11:19 AM]
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That's a big flag for sure... And I wonder why that is so? Anybody have an idea????

Zilla
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TomSimrak. If you are part of the Duners group can you publish the list of donors like the ASA has? This is not ASA vs. anyone. They just are the most visible in my eyes and have a list published for the world to see.

My goal is to find out who REALLY GIVES and who does not. It makes a difference to me, hence the reason I started the post, please keep it somewhat on topic for me.

Just a question here-
Donations to the ASA are not "tax deductible". Though I am sure a business is able to write certain things off as business expenses, is a "cash" donation to a non-profit that is specifically NOT tax deductible included in that?

And honestly -personally knowing many of the builders and suppliers involved in the giveaway cars, I DO believe many still would have participated even if they weren't able to write off the expense of doing so. I think some companies' reasons for donating/helping/supporting the various orgs might be "business centric" but there are many who are doing this because they see the need for ALL us duners, not just for how it is going to affect their bottom line.

Forgot to respond to this part...

My first thought here is to

But I know there are some people here on the board who really believe this is the mentality of the ASA (let's call them "MARTIANS )

Obviously, the ASA has already posted the info on their board for EVERYONE (even the Martians) to see....all you have to do is go look for it (or follow a link a mere Earthling posted above )

But, there "may" be more to the story-I know over the years there have been some rather "large" CASH donations made to the ASA (Mark Harms' years ago being the most publicized). Is that info available to the "duning public"? It should be in the books and it has always been said that the books are available for "anyone" to see. I'd love to see you specifically try and get this info 40 (since I know you aren't actually involved with the ASA) and post here the response from the ASA.

What gets me is that it only cost $ 100 ( I cant remember) to be a business member, $50 to be a supporting member. I do both and my Business has absolutly nothing to do with our sport !.

For a dune related business not to so much as lift a finger in the fight thats been going on now for 5 years ?,,, to me is PATHETIC !.

Grant is a god !!


JMO2.


.

Pathetic. Has a nice ring to it............There are companies that build $100,000 buggys that are not even a 2 Star giver to the ASA, and I don't believe they are giving more to another org., either. Pathetic. I agree.

Here's the ORBA members list:

http://www.orba.biz/members.shtml

IMHO listing supports benefits everyone (well, except those who don't support anyone ) it lets the off road public know which companies are willing to help make sure off road recreation has a future, it lets the orgs show where their support comes from, and it gives the donators good publicity.

Since I built the ASA database I know how involved it can be....but at least I had the easy job. It's Jim Coln and his team who keep the information up to date and current that do the hard part! Putting a list up is one thing, making sure that list is current is quite another and probably a big part of why more orgs don't - they may not have the manpower/time to make sure the list is current and accurate.

I'll also add that I know on the ASA list not all donations are cash - most are but there are a number of "in kind" supporters who offer goods and/or services to the ASA and are often rewarded with a supporter listing. Cash is always important, but ANY help is always appreciated by the orgs fighting for us and I for one think it's important to recognize those who help any way they can even if it isn't cash.

As far as tax deductions...I can only speak from my knowledge of the ASA supporters. But donations to the ASA are not tax-deductible. However buying advertising on the ASA website (which IIRC is included in some sponsor levels) IS deductible as an advertising expense.

Personally I think it stinks that some companies will only support the orgs who are fighting to make sure there is a market for those companies to profit off of if they see it reflected in their bottom line today. Without those orgs it most certinaly WILL show in their bottom line down the road when there is no market left for their products thanks to apathy.

But if that's the reality then that's what we need to work with...and that means letting them know that it does affect their bottom line. The orgs can't do that - but we as customers can. Let the companies you buy from know that you are interested in how they support your sport and if they don't then it's time to stop supporting them even if it's not convienant for you.

At the same time a "thank you" to those who do support those who support us goes a LONG way towards letting them know that their investment IS paying off!

Supporting member is only $25 and business sponsorship starts at $50

GO Weekend Warrior !!!!

And that goes for supporting ANY org, website, etc that is there for the duners!
This has sort of become ASA related but as long as a builder is supporting an org, the cleanup, a website, etc. it is helping us out

I agree! WW is a 4 Star and Giant a 3 Star! Makes a difference in my book! Why the absolute lack of buggy builders???? I would not be shocked if someone starts typing in names and asking outright where they give and how much........

Jhite. Thanks. I still see a multitude of buggy builders NOT on the ORBA list as well. Get out your checkbooks those that profiteer off of the duner and do NOT give back significantly into the business that supports your lifestyle.

40PSI...one item you keep repeating is about "businesses that post here". I most certainly support your concept, and would hope that ALL businesses who make their living from selling cars, bikes, parts, clothes, etc would be smart enough to see the tactical advantage to insuring the off road venues are open to their customers.

BUT, there is no requirement for any business to contribute to any specific organization to post on this board.

I think it's a great idea to know that whoever you choose to supply your equipment is contributing to the fight against the eco nazis.

Good point Beach. My point is I am spending alot of money and I know alot of businesses post here and certainly profit here, but also know this is a public board with no requirement for giving to post. Thanks.

40...I completely understand your position. The fact that funco is a HUGE supporter of the fight to keep the dunes open was certainly one of the decision criteria that "I" used when making my purchase decision. (honest it wasn't the ride with Grant....nope, had nothing to do with it!!)

Not trying to single out Weekend Warrior too much here, but have you noticed that every trailer has an "Action Program" sticker on it.

And I'd love other members of this board (businesses) to tell us who they donate to. They should be proud. Not trying to create a contest or anything, I just think it would be good to see it and for them to hear some feedback from us.

Exactly.

Do all organizations have a list of the businesses that donate? Some do, some don't.

Fundraising is a full-time job and focusing on getting businesses to support any organization is a daunting task. Just ask ORBA how easy it is to get the business members to kick down when their dues are due. And DUNERS? Well, we're worse at fundraising than most other organizations... we have business members on our books that haven't paid their yearly fee since 2003

Then there are those businesses who confuse donating to the cleanup with donating to DUNERS. All money (yes, ALL money) collected for cleanup sponsorship goes straight back to the cleanup. None of that money goes to DUNERS. Even The Warrens were premium cleanup sponsors this year when we donated $500 that didn't come in from two sponsors who had promised to pay but didn't, and we didn't even get a spot on the t-shirt. Whether they pay or not, the t-shirt guy needs his money, right? So he got it.

As for the businesses who don't donate to anyone? on them, as far as I'm concerned, if they are truly doing it out of laziness.

The big manufacturers stay away for political reasons. The smaller builders and suppliers stay away for political reasons too sometimes. Or sometimes it's because they are being hit from so many different directions they don't know where to turn

Donations and fundraising and collecting money is a touchy subject but Julie said it best in her quote above.

And Jim said it too. Giving money is great, it keeps the wolves away from the organization's doorstep. But if you can't give money, give time and support.

Vicki

I am glad you said it . I can only think it.

One other thing I thought of that helps on a smaller level. PRP Seats has donated a set of seats for the Friends of Sand Mountain for the last two years. I know they donate to other organizations too. So when it came time to select the seats for my new rail, I chose PRP without even thinking about it. They support us. The least I can do is return the support.

Well, well, very interesting concept.


As I read through this, the real point became clearer and clearer. It's not about who does or doesn't contribute in some way to the sport, it's about targeting an specific builder who was described slowly through several posts.

First, when selecting a product, I look at the product itself, how well does it perform? I don't give a rat's ass if the builder has a hot wife, or he's a really nice guy or he has a mullet. I'm not marrying him or his wife, so none of that crap matters.

A TRUE giver would donate to causes that do NOT directly affect one's industry. Spending money to preserve ones' livelihood is campaigning or lobbying - NOT donating, to make that distinction clear.

When somebody gets a back injury and suddenly starts donating to that cause... are they generous, or hoping to benefit from it? Donate to what affects others and not yourself, and then you might be called generous or selfless.

I DO applaud those who have the time and/or money to fight for the cause, WHICHEVER org they choose to contribute to. That doesn't mean I'm gonna buy their rail, or that it's better or in any way gets any more consideration than others. It's like buying a car just because you liked the hot chick in the ad on TV...

sorry, you have to buy her separately.

When someone cries wolf, I look for consistency - do as I do, not as I say. Did somebody get all in Toyota's face about their level of support of offroading? Why not? They've got BIG bucks to spend. They could take on the enviros dollar for dollar and win.

How about Yamaha? They made your Raptor. Is that why you chose to support Yamaha? Because of their incredible support for our hobby (industry)? Noo... you liked the bike, despite their lack of corp. support.

I use the same criteria to choose everything. Cars, rails, boats, bikes, electronics. Which one is the best within my budget.

There are soooo many other factors that go into deciding which rail is safest, handles, rides, looks, etc the way that I want, that what somebody ate for breakfast has the same relevance as who they donate to.

Here's how I see it. Buy whatever rail you think is safest, etc. Then donate whatever amouint you want to whichever org you want to. It's none of anyone else's business what you donate to.

If you're using donations to separate good from bad... I'm pretty sure 80% of this planet are gonna fall in the bad category.

I hope it does not get ASA related only....

I know this is GLAMISdunes.com, but there are many more dune areas that need support.
I for one feel bad that I had not that much time in the last year for Dumont . I will be back and more involved for next season.

btw CORVA has the supporter list in their mag. Friends of Dumont will need a complete new start for memberships. We had no time to go after memberships, but there are many business that helped us the last three years running the cleanups. hope I can give you a list of the sponsors later on.

My feeling here is that is exactly what 40 was trying to get across-support the builders, vendors, sand stores etc that are helping to support the dune organization of their choosing. He specifically mentions CASH...that's a criteria he finds important. Maybe another person isn't so concerned about the "cash" aspect but wants to know if a specific business is doing "anything" to help out our cause. We all have to set our own criteria as to what is important to us individually and make our decisions from there.

I believe the topic does refer to the ASA .