I have read some of your posts, but am having a hard time understanding your position, and why. Please explain. As an environmentalists, which I beleive you are, help me understand the importance of minor issues. In the realm of a global society, where do dirtbikes fit?
I think we all agree to clean water to drink.
We all want clean air.
Basically, I would want to beleive that everyone wants to see a better world for our children.
But, I have concluded that environmentalists groups are very much wanting change that will not effect them.
I drive the 91 freeway every day. I ponder how the government can "sell" 2 lanes of highway and turn it into a private business. The smog that is generated by HORRIBLE traffic congestion. What are you doing, as an enviro rep for me, to fix that? You are a rep for me, aren't you? That is the cause of an enviro group, to make it better for the "people", right?
What about all the businesses that do not comply with current EPA rules? You are watching them, and letting big brother know, right?
Can you do something about the Mercedes spewing all that diesel fuel smoke in front of me? Or, is that one of the Legislators that rally behind your cause? My eyes are burning from it....help....
so, I drive home and look at the hills so horribly scarred from the dirtbikers tracks. I think about all the little critters that are being effected by that. But, I know, you are there to stop it. And you do. Great job!! But, i am firing you, as you did not follow through. Yesterday, MASS MURDER took place. They leveled those hills, and built a shopping center. HOW COULD YOU LET THAT HAPPEN????? You claim to Represent my interests. I did not want that. I did not want homes being built along the oceans shoreline. What about the critters? The plants?
i realize that you may not read this, as you are in Afghanistan stopping the war. "Guys, this is an endangered plant, no war can be fought here". Good job Bluesky!!!!
But, reality hits...
You are busy wanting change for things that WILL NOT effect your personal life. In the name of Environmental betterment!
So, the war goes on...
traffic congestion goes on.....
wilderness areas are being transformed into cities....
Millions of plants/animals go extinct...
Yep, Bluesky, as a self rightous boss, you went after your own personal "goals". You let the people down. You bankrupted your Company because you focused all your resources on a single "hickup". You killed morale, and made us all unemployed...
You've positioned yourself as the enemy- this is your failure-this is why as a stockholder I am firing you.....
Full Version: Bluesky
don't forget my severance pay
Big Had: 
Severance pay, that made me laugh....
but really Bluesky, I would like to know. With respect to you, which I will give. I would like to know your position, as an environmentalist, "for the better interests of the masses". Is this what you stand for?
To my understanding, that is the "calling" of these groups. Please respond, since if your answer is yes, then you must be representing me as a member of the "masses".
SOOOOOO..... as my rep. I would like to-
1. Know what you are doing for my betterment.
2. Know that you are focused on the most important issues first.
3. Know that you are not abusing your "appointment" for your own political gain.
I await your response.......
but really Bluesky, I would like to know. With respect to you, which I will give. I would like to know your position, as an environmentalist, "for the better interests of the masses". Is this what you stand for?
To my understanding, that is the "calling" of these groups. Please respond, since if your answer is yes, then you must be representing me as a member of the "masses".
SOOOOOO..... as my rep. I would like to-
1. Know what you are doing for my betterment.
2. Know that you are focused on the most important issues first.
3. Know that you are not abusing your "appointment" for your own political gain.
I await your response.......
Great questions Big Had--you knocked me for a loop!
I gotta go back to my cave and ponder my answers to your excellent questions!
I gotta go back to my cave and ponder my answers to your excellent questions!
Big Had
I guess you're right, I am working for the masses of people who, like me share ownership in the public lands of our country.
I am working to protect species that may in turn protect all of humanity from a new virus, new insect threat, or could be used to yield a cure for disease, or have some other benefit for people.
I am working to protect our human environment like our air and water. Our ecosystem is made of interdependent elements. A possible warning that our ecosystem is failing is when species start to die out in large numbers--as is happening now. As your caring environmental activist, I want to make sure our human environment is protected for us.
well, if you were really paying me, you could direct me to what you wanted me to work on first. As it is, I'm a volunteer, so I'm going it alone, looking for direction from those I believe are right. I find my calling in the OHV access field as a result of my own experiences in the parts of this state where I have spent most of my life--Southern Ca.
Suppose you were directing me==what would you have me start with?
I guess you're right, I am working for the masses of people who, like me share ownership in the public lands of our country.
quote:
SOOOOOO..... as my rep. I would like to-
1. Know what you are doing for my betterment.
I am working to protect species that may in turn protect all of humanity from a new virus, new insect threat, or could be used to yield a cure for disease, or have some other benefit for people.
I am working to protect our human environment like our air and water. Our ecosystem is made of interdependent elements. A possible warning that our ecosystem is failing is when species start to die out in large numbers--as is happening now. As your caring environmental activist, I want to make sure our human environment is protected for us.
quote:
Know that you are focused on the most important issues first.
well, if you were really paying me, you could direct me to what you wanted me to work on first. As it is, I'm a volunteer, so I'm going it alone, looking for direction from those I believe are right. I find my calling in the OHV access field as a result of my own experiences in the parts of this state where I have spent most of my life--Southern Ca.
Suppose you were directing me==what would you have me start with?
quoteQUOTEKnow that you are not abusing your \"appointment\" for your own political gain
Political gain--that's kind of wide open. I'm already married to the prettiest gal on earth, so I'm not out for the jollies of drawing attention to myself. Somebody once suggested I run for Sheriff, or that I try to get appointed to the DAC. The latter is a possibility to consider.
I'm gettin the idea that you're trying to figure out what motivates me to write so much about OHV incursions into nature. I would be happy to tell you the story of my life sometime around a campfire--in less that 20 min I promise! Suffice it to say that I have a deep appreciation for living things and get upset when a tree gets cut down, dog gets run over, bird gets shot/electrocuted. Also, like many of you I see the increasing urbanization and development encroaching on MY life--making it harder to get away to some place where I can be alone with my thoughts.
I used to enjoy going to the beach at C Street in Ventura. Just a dirt bluff overlooking a rocky beach where the surf was pretty consistent. No parking lots or toilets--you just parked where you wanted to and there was always lots of cars there and I never saw any parking problems. I used to walk up the beach to an out of the way spot to take a leak. Now it's all developed into a paved parking lot with phony lawns and palm trees and yes, a public restroom. It's not the same and I miss the way it used to be.
How does this relate to my activism? I don't know. But high impact rec such as OHV rec permanently changes the character of the land, rendering it no longer suitable as a place for nature. the next step is to plant some phony grass, and "put up a parking lot".
Thank you for asking these very pertinent questions and making me take the time to think through my answers and write them down.
I am interested in any comments you might make on this or another subject.
BTW if you haven't seen this video, ck it out!
http://www.raviandtherexers.com/shanolong.html
I was camped near there the night this was filmed. These people went onto somebody's private property and torched some abandoned buildings to make their movie. They brought a bulldozer to make dirt bike jumps and brought an old car to burn and bury. They shot up the whole area with large caliber rifles and pistols. How they got away with it and can leave this film up on the net because as a testament to their felonies is beyond me. But it offers a glimpse into the mindset of young people today. If I don't resist somehow, I will feel that I just rolled over and let this sort of thing snowball into something even bigger and more destructive.
[This message has been edited by Bluesky (edited 04-22-2002).]
Well, i thank you for your response. What would I have you do? Where do I start. ya know, the oldest living trees are dying do to vehicle emissions. The waters are really the source of the major destruction, as they dilute and carry poisons to millions of organisms. Perhaps you could educate others about these things. Persuation is a powerful tool. I have found that when i have been out in the desert, a simple, "I'm not against you but the trash needs picking up cause it looks bad" attitude generally works well. Lets talk about Glamis...
Thousands of people go there.
Millions of dollars are spent on toys.
The North section is closed
Now the center section is closed.
Is this really the answer?
If they close it both sides will loose.
Gas powered vehicles are made to roll across the ground. So long as they exist, so will other forms of transportation exist. How do we ban one, but not the other? It is peoples core drive to want to have fun. Dirtbikes are a form of both.
So, with that said, Management of the lands is a mutual ground. Both sides win.
Because, so long as off road vehicles exist, there will be buyers of these. So long as there are buyers, they will exist. Business one O one.
Lets say the dunes close. How does an "Enviro" loose?
Well, i will drive further to find a place to ride. (A place that does not have the winds make my tracks dissappear.) I will create more smog, right? Or, maybe I will sell my stuff and buy an old pre-73 SMOG EXEMPT hotrod. This, I will drive much more frequently then my bikes. Or, maybe a boat? Or, perhaps I'll take up guns, go to the desert, and shoot the place up. Why should I care, as I am probably rather resentful.
Nah, I think I'll ride. A new place, currently "untouched" by bikes. I'll ride the hell out of there cause someday the Enviro's will get it too shut down. I will be one step ahead of them, thats all. So, you see my point? By positioning yourself against things, you make yourself nill and void to those that oppose your thoughts. I am sure you have great contributions that if used right would enlighten me so that perhaps i will walk away with more respect for things. That is, if I view you as not a threat to my beliefs. Banning things is short sighted, and a quick fix. Management takes hard work, persistance, and long term thinking. This is the true way to getting a mutally benefitial goal. I would like to know, have you ever ridden a dirtbike? 4x4, or other off highway vehicle?
Bluesky, I ask that you ponder this phrase-
"there is a lot of people who can't see eye to eye, and I've often wondered if they ever sat down and talked face to face, they might realize they have a lot in common". Think about this......
Thousands of people go there.
Millions of dollars are spent on toys.
The North section is closed
Now the center section is closed.
Is this really the answer?
If they close it both sides will loose.
Gas powered vehicles are made to roll across the ground. So long as they exist, so will other forms of transportation exist. How do we ban one, but not the other? It is peoples core drive to want to have fun. Dirtbikes are a form of both.
So, with that said, Management of the lands is a mutual ground. Both sides win.
Because, so long as off road vehicles exist, there will be buyers of these. So long as there are buyers, they will exist. Business one O one.
Lets say the dunes close. How does an "Enviro" loose?
Well, i will drive further to find a place to ride. (A place that does not have the winds make my tracks dissappear.) I will create more smog, right? Or, maybe I will sell my stuff and buy an old pre-73 SMOG EXEMPT hotrod. This, I will drive much more frequently then my bikes. Or, maybe a boat? Or, perhaps I'll take up guns, go to the desert, and shoot the place up. Why should I care, as I am probably rather resentful.
Nah, I think I'll ride. A new place, currently "untouched" by bikes. I'll ride the hell out of there cause someday the Enviro's will get it too shut down. I will be one step ahead of them, thats all. So, you see my point? By positioning yourself against things, you make yourself nill and void to those that oppose your thoughts. I am sure you have great contributions that if used right would enlighten me so that perhaps i will walk away with more respect for things. That is, if I view you as not a threat to my beliefs. Banning things is short sighted, and a quick fix. Management takes hard work, persistance, and long term thinking. This is the true way to getting a mutally benefitial goal. I would like to know, have you ever ridden a dirtbike? 4x4, or other off highway vehicle?
Bluesky, I ask that you ponder this phrase-
"there is a lot of people who can't see eye to eye, and I've often wondered if they ever sat down and talked face to face, they might realize they have a lot in common". Think about this......
you were camped right next to them that day? really and you didnt go over there and say anything to them or even maybe call the police or sheriff. why wouldnt you try to do something. maybe even something as little as get their license plate numbers and turn them in.
I actually called the Sheriff who came out and saw what was going on and later told me "they're making a movie".
Of course, he didn't ask to see their permit which is required of all movies, which they didn't have. Maybe he was a dirt biker himself (the cop)and wanted to see the movie himself.
I did go over the next day and talk to the people. They were very quiet and suspicious of me.
Of course, he didn't ask to see their permit which is required of all movies, which they didn't have. Maybe he was a dirt biker himself (the cop)and wanted to see the movie himself.
I did go over the next day and talk to the people. They were very quiet and suspicious of me.
Bluesky,
You say
" I am working to protect species that may in turn protect all of humanity from a new virus, new insect threat, or could be used to yield a cure for disease, or have some other benefit for people.
I am working to protect our human environment like our air and water. Our ecosystem is made of interdependent elements. A possible warning that our ecosystem is failing is when species start to die out in large numbers--as is happening now. As your caring environmental activist, I want to make sure our human environment is protected for us."
My question is this, what are you doing PHYSICALLY to protect our enviroment? Are you going out and cleaning up areas YOU say off-roaders are leaving messy? Do you even get out of your house and enjoy the enviroment, or just sit behind your computer *****ing about everyone else all day?
Do you walk the walk?
Or just talk the talk??????
You say
" I am working to protect species that may in turn protect all of humanity from a new virus, new insect threat, or could be used to yield a cure for disease, or have some other benefit for people.
I am working to protect our human environment like our air and water. Our ecosystem is made of interdependent elements. A possible warning that our ecosystem is failing is when species start to die out in large numbers--as is happening now. As your caring environmental activist, I want to make sure our human environment is protected for us."
My question is this, what are you doing PHYSICALLY to protect our enviroment? Are you going out and cleaning up areas YOU say off-roaders are leaving messy? Do you even get out of your house and enjoy the enviroment, or just sit behind your computer *****ing about everyone else all day?
Do you walk the walk?
Or just talk the talk??????
I'm sorry, Bluesky. Perhaps we weren't sharing each others points of view? You shared with me that nice memory about the bluffs next to the ocean. Let me share with you my memories. Dad took me and my family camping as far back as I can remember. we rode off road bikes. we shot guns. He always told me not to shoot aimlessly, or kill for the fun of it. He taught me not to ride care free and without respect. Not to leave trash and "abuse mother nature". As a young man, i always reflected back to those campfire talks about drugs, etc. Pops always told me that riding was a privilage, above and beyond just "getting by". And that if I loved it, I'd need to get a good education, as it was mighty expensive. So, that echoed in my head, and I said no to drugs. I rode bikes for my "high". And, I found friends that did also.
I am now 32. 4 kids. Funny how history repeats itself. I have the same talks with my kids. Pops still rides, and he too talks. The kids love to hear him talk bout when I was a kid, etc. I love to watch them together. This is my family, this is what I know.
Bluesky, this is how we spend Thanksgiving every year since before my kids were born. Heck, my kids beleive Glamis is where everyone is supposed to be at for turkey dinner. I'm damn proud of it too.
So, we have this road, and it splits the off limits from the open limits area. Crossing the line is starting a war. A sort of civil war. So, who is wrong?
Let the milk vech thrive in the north side.
What a lot of people don't understand is why are people trying to close it?( south side) This area is confined, with shifting sand dunes from continual wind erosion. Closing it will just create more "environmental" damage in a wider area of our land. People will still ride. Or, is your agenda to ban all off road?
Do you beleive it is feasible?
It seems like personal agendas are real driving forces behind "enviro's". As you stated, you seek guidance from others. For what? I know what I BELEIVE IN. Thats what makes me me. I could care less what others think about my core beliefs. That statement seems to be saying, "hey, I need a cause. I need to belong to a group. I need to feel liked, wanted. Someone tell me what to do".
Well alright then Bluesky, I like ya. Lets go camp and get to know each other. Heck, I may even let you ride my bike, or jeep, or buggy. Bottom line.---
Tell me why you do what you do, from the heart. No text book crap. Straight. Lets debate respectfully with each other. Lets chat Thursday night on Gotdunes.com. You and me.(8pm) Lets make our points, and rebuttals.
Will you?
I am now 32. 4 kids. Funny how history repeats itself. I have the same talks with my kids. Pops still rides, and he too talks. The kids love to hear him talk bout when I was a kid, etc. I love to watch them together. This is my family, this is what I know.
Bluesky, this is how we spend Thanksgiving every year since before my kids were born. Heck, my kids beleive Glamis is where everyone is supposed to be at for turkey dinner. I'm damn proud of it too.
So, we have this road, and it splits the off limits from the open limits area. Crossing the line is starting a war. A sort of civil war. So, who is wrong?
Let the milk vech thrive in the north side.
What a lot of people don't understand is why are people trying to close it?( south side) This area is confined, with shifting sand dunes from continual wind erosion. Closing it will just create more "environmental" damage in a wider area of our land. People will still ride. Or, is your agenda to ban all off road?
Do you beleive it is feasible?
It seems like personal agendas are real driving forces behind "enviro's". As you stated, you seek guidance from others. For what? I know what I BELEIVE IN. Thats what makes me me. I could care less what others think about my core beliefs. That statement seems to be saying, "hey, I need a cause. I need to belong to a group. I need to feel liked, wanted. Someone tell me what to do".
Well alright then Bluesky, I like ya. Lets go camp and get to know each other. Heck, I may even let you ride my bike, or jeep, or buggy. Bottom line.---
Tell me why you do what you do, from the heart. No text book crap. Straight. Lets debate respectfully with each other. Lets chat Thursday night on Gotdunes.com. You and me.(8pm) Lets make our points, and rebuttals.
Will you?
Big Had
I have to admit that my respect and admiration for people extends to the duner crowd. You yourself have impressed me with your matter-of-fact logic and I will definitely try to experience the chat room--this will be a first for me
.
Even people like KG and sailaway and Radrat and even VOR sound like people I would enjoy exchanging views with, though we burn up the cyber wires with our firey damnations of one another.
I just recieved a copy of "wildland recreation policy" a textbook by J. Douglas Wellman who was cited on this board as the author of a study finding the PMV to be thriving inspite of OHV impacts. I have read the intro and it promises to shed light on what we have been arguing about.
Take care and I'll talk to you Thurs nite at 8:00PM for the chat unless something happens to me.
maybe I'll read more posts by you before then. I will probably post some more tomorrow.
I have to admit that my respect and admiration for people extends to the duner crowd. You yourself have impressed me with your matter-of-fact logic and I will definitely try to experience the chat room--this will be a first for me
.Even people like KG and sailaway and Radrat and even VOR sound like people I would enjoy exchanging views with, though we burn up the cyber wires with our firey damnations of one another.
I just recieved a copy of "wildland recreation policy" a textbook by J. Douglas Wellman who was cited on this board as the author of a study finding the PMV to be thriving inspite of OHV impacts. I have read the intro and it promises to shed light on what we have been arguing about.
Take care and I'll talk to you Thurs nite at 8:00PM for the chat unless something happens to me.
maybe I'll read more posts by you before then. I will probably post some more tomorrow.
Excellent. I look forward to an educated and respectful discussion. I enjoy learning from others. Since I know myself best, there is nothing that will make me grow mentally. I seek others for this. i truly look forward to our "debate"....
I figured that you wouldn't answer my question blue! Your soooooo predictable!
Big Had
having trouble logging on to chat. help not coming up..will check here to see if you can advise how to get on chat
Buggy dave
this is what you want me to answer?
having trouble logging on to chat. help not coming up..will check here to see if you can advise how to get on chat
Buggy dave
this is what you want me to answer?
quoteQUOTEMy question is this, what are you doing PHYSICALLY to protect our enviroment? Are you going out and cleaning up areas YOU say off-roaders are leaving messy? Do you even get out of your house and enjoy the enviroment, or just sit behind your computer *****ing about everyone else all day?
sorry, not worth an answer. you obviously are not asking me a question but just shooting off your mouth. Does it feel good?
ok, I was waiting, you here?
BH
I entered my nickname Bluesky, then the password, then the prompt came up telling me to do something within 60 seconds...I did that a few times and then it changed my nickname to guest # 0000. I clicked on all the buttons but nothing led to the chat room. I clicked help a number of times, but the page was not available. I came back here and watched for a bit. Sorry I missed you. Can you refer me to a page that can walk me through the chat process?
thanks
blu
I entered my nickname Bluesky, then the password, then the prompt came up telling me to do something within 60 seconds...I did that a few times and then it changed my nickname to guest # 0000. I clicked on all the buttons but nothing led to the chat room. I clicked help a number of times, but the page was not available. I came back here and watched for a bit. Sorry I missed you. Can you refer me to a page that can walk me through the chat process?
thanks
blu
ok, you go to Gotdunes.com.
click on the left side bubble-(enter the chat room)
it brings you to a page prompting you to enter your user name
below that it says-"enter chat/connect"
thats it.
How bout tonight? give me a time. If your not there, I will look back here.
click on the left side bubble-(enter the chat room)
it brings you to a page prompting you to enter your user name
below that it says-"enter chat/connect"
thats it.
How bout tonight? give me a time. If your not there, I will look back here.
I figured as much ,Blue!
I tried it again. It says you have 40--20 seconds to comply (comply with what?) then it changed my name to guest # 1111 and then i clicked chat and it ran a never ending list of chat rooms with swedish alphabet symbols. the other buttons didn't lead me anywhere either.
later I noticed on the right side that there was only 1 user--me!
I saw a box in the middle and I wrote "hello" anybody here? and pushed enter.
can you refer me to a site that walks you through the chat process?
I saw a box in the middle and I wrote "hello" anybody here? and pushed enter.
can you refer me to a site that walks you through the chat process?
Sounds like you had everything right Blu except the name you used is already being used by someone just enter a different name or add a number to yours.
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
I just recieved a copy of "wildland recreation policy" a textbook by J. Douglas Wellman who was cited on this board as the author of a study finding the PMV to be thriving inspite of OHV impacts.
wowowowow.. so your saying that cr500cop was right? (he said something about the wellman thing) you better apologies to him, Im pretty sure you said something about not believing him...
------------------
DJ~DesertViper
Blue is the only way to go~YZ250
The book I have is not the study of the PMV. It's a history of recreation in the US. So far very interesting and looks like the arguments we're having here have been going on since 1860!
The US has the largest area of national parks of any country!
I believe I already apologized for doubting the existence of this author--it's on the other thread.
The US has the largest area of national parks of any country!
I believe I already apologized for doubting the existence of this author--it's on the other thread.
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