A good point, and MAYBE the ONLY good point the greens MAY have, is "saving the places for the future generations". Ok lets say then in the future when "they" go to use it will they be able to, or will it still be locked up?

What good is it to save something you can never use?

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Like beer but stickyer

quote:

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A good point, and MAYBE the ONLY good point the greens MAY have, is "saving the places for the future generations". Ok lets say then in the future when "they" go to use it will they be able to, or will it still be locked up?
What good is it to save something you can never use?

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I don't know if you heard or believe that our population is still growing. I believe it is. I believe that in 10 years there will be a huge demand for quiet natural places to go to get away from the noise and bustle of the city. It's in our interest to preserve as much of our undeveloped lands as places for low impact recreation, which doesn't compromise their use for species conservation.


I do share with you your frustration at losing a great proving ground for experimental sand vehicles. Somebody f***** up big time when they started commercializing Glamis. Dirt bikes and ATVs should have stayed in the hard pack open areas. People should have seen the zoo coming from the start and done something to head it off. Now it's too late and the whole world is watching in combinations of amusement and horror as the real sand nuts (really experimental engineers) fight it out with people they really don't have many differences with--the Green conservationists.

[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 04-22-2002).]

AARRGGHH!!!!! blu you are full of it. if all of us stayed in the hard pack you would be closing off those areas also. and besides there are not alot of places to ride left.

P.S. finally te truth came out, your against the "zoo".. i new it had nothing to do with nature and preserving it. and if people want a place to go and get away i have never heard anybody say "I need a break lets go to the desert" its usually the mountains...

Blu The question was if we close the land for future preservation wil it not be closed in the future too? Of course it will be closed. so instead of using it while we got it YOUR TYPE want to take it all away from us now. Isn't it hypocritical to say you want to save it for one group of people when your taking it away from another?

And the species you speak of out at G For crying out loud they've had 32,000 acres for nearly 20 years now North of the 78. That shoul be designated foot travel area. All those who choose to walk the dunes be it animals, human or other wise should be allowed in that area only. Why do you THINK ( I say think because I KNOW you know nothing about G) the dunes South of the 78 should have ANY closed areas? Don't quote ANYTHING you read I,and probably others, would like to hear your reasons for the closeures.

as far as Sand Vehicles where do you get off having ANY opinion what so ever about them? Have you ever been in one? Have you ever drove one?

And "We should of stuck to Hard pack"? Thats as stupid as saying you hikers should only be allowed to walk up hill. That would suck wouldn't it? well it makes as much scense as us staying on hard pack.

Blu YES or NO is it true people like you who want to restrict others lifes have no life or reason for existance so it makes people like you feel like you have a reason to live if you come up with a "cause"?

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Like beer but stickyer

Red, If you're expecting to get a logical response that makes any sense, your wasting your time asking the questions you've asked.

procreation and recreation

[Quote]I don't know if you heard or believe that our population is still growing. I believe it is. I believe that in 10 years there will be a huge demand for quiet natural places to go to get away from the noise and bustle of the city.[Quote]


There is a demand already for these places. If you need proof, look to the estimated 190,000 people that showed up at G last Thanksgiving. There will be more of a need in the future yet you and yours continue to whittle away at our sanctuary. I live 10 miles away from the Lytle Creek camping and hiking area where no OHV are allowed yet the nearest OHV area is 40 miles away at El Mirage. What I consider quiet and relaxing is obviously offensive to you. That doesn't mean you can take away my land.

I honestly think I have a solution that would help the entire world. We would have Glamis and everything else we wanted also...

BIRTH CONTROL

I know this is gonna result in people verbally attacking me. But, It is just the way I feel darn it!!

Stacy

Stacy you are on to something there.. btu why stop at birth control. why not snip the newborn male's. and when you can afford to raise a child you can have the operation to reverse the procedure.. that will take care of a couple of different problems

But would they get a big one or a medium one or a little one Dan?

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluesky:
I believe that in 10 years there will be a huge demand for quiet natural places to go to get away from the noise and bustle of the city.

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ok in this whole season i didnt see anyone out there just walking around. ok so lets multiply 0walking peeps) by 10(10 years). what does that equal? 0. ok now lets say that i saw one non-duner walking around. k so thats 1x10=10. ok now the 10 people that i "will" see is 10 year vs. the 1000's of off-roaders i see on any given weekend.... you do that math.. or can you


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Very Interesting Blu. Where do you propose we undertake our "experimental" sand vehicle testing?? Towards the Pacific, we have been limited to 4 miles of CA coastline, which is in danger of being closed to OHV use.(pismo Dunes) Towards the VAST desert, most has been closed due to an ailing tortise population, which are dying off from illness, at a faster rate than when vehicle traffic was allowed there. (Barstow to Vegas, etc.) The local mountain trail system has been cut due to budget slashing, and fire rehab. Most of the "hard packed" places I grew up riding are now developed with houses and mini malls. (Indian Dunes, Saddleback, Escape Country, Corona Raceway) Please oh wise one, tell me where it is safe to ride without infringing on your meditation space. If ignorant individuals like yourself had viable solutions, maybe your credibility would be worth something.

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Haz and Mrs. Haz
02 Raptor, 00 Warrior, and 87 250X
98, 85, and 78 YZ 250's
81 XR 250

Actually, Pismo isn't the only coastal OHV area left.

Jon, you really stir'd up a hornet's nest this time, didn't you. Glad to see you still got it . BTW, how are you feeling lately??

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LOVE TO RIDE DUNE'S :)

Stacy: In The Republic of CA, Pismo IS the only OHV legal area. I do hope to experience the wonder and majesty of Oregon Dunes one day....if the greens don't beat me to it. Mike

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Haz and Mrs. Haz
02 Raptor, 00 Warrior, and 87 250X
98, 85, and 78 YZ 250's
81 XR 250

But Tina I don't stir anything.

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Like beer but stickyer

Haz

I have hiked and biked and driven a lot on the roads and trails in the Hi Vista/El Mirage area. Every vacant building and quite a few rocks and buttes have several grafitti signatures of "HAZ" including the dates from the early 1990s to the present. Seeing as you live in Hesperia, not too far away, I thought I'd ask if you're this HAZ or know about him/her?

What a *-ing *** HOLE!!! Blu you by far are the biggest * * * * * I have EVER seen a post from. Mike "Hazmster" brings up a valid point & you bring up stupid **!* like that. You want to accuse people of defacing land & property? That ain't half as bad as trying to out right take it away from people you *-ing thief!!!

[This message has been edited by Mr.Red Elvises (edited 05-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-09-2002).]

Wow easy on the medications Jon!!! Blu: As for this tagging you refer to, I did come to the Hi Desert in the early 90's, but I have been an honored guest at El Mirage for over 25 years! I have a love for that lake bed that I will take to my grave! If you had ever experienced an off road ride, you'd remember your first one forever! Kinda like losing your viginity, you'll see what I mean...someday. (if your lucky)
Now, back to the tagging. I was a VOLUNTEER, sworn to protect life, environment, and property (IN THAT ORDER) in the hi desert region. I had a few responses to the El Mirage region on an automatic aid agreement between their station and ours. (what have YOU saved out there???????) Unfortunately, too many parents out there have shirked their duties (too many Sierra Club meetings??) and let their kids become misguided youth. These individuals are probably the ones who left their "calling card" on the vertical surfaces of which you saw. I am a responsible, tax paying, voting, veteran of my Country. I also pay my green sticker monies every year to maintain this area of which you speak...do you??? By the way, what were you doing DRIVING a motor vehicle in this area??? Isn't that against everything you stand for??? Kinda hypocritical don't ya think?? Finally, I have a profession that dictates I treat EVERYONE the same: you, the idiot tagger, my wife, and my fellow FF's. If I can meet those expectations, why can't the average environmentalist be held to the same standards?? Unfortunately, mis-information on both sides have clouded peoples judgement as far as where they stand. There's nothing worse than a select few, manipulating the masses. Get the facts, and then get a life. To everyone else, i apologize for ranting, but this person has evidently tripped my trigger!! Mike

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Haz and Mrs. Haz
02 Raptor, 00 Warrior, and 87 250X
98, 85, and 78 YZ 250's
81 XR 250

*stands up to get a standing ovation for jon and haz* well said gentleman.. but i gotta throw in my 2 cents... BLUSKY HAVE U EVER BEEN TO GLAMIS U HYPOCRITICAL TOFU EATING ****IN GREENIE *******... why dont ur ass take a long hike up to EL MIRAGE where its peacefull for u and leave OUR MECA ALONE.

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Look mom i can fly
ISBB - I_SHOT_BIGBIRD

**** the enviorment lets go riden



[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-15-2002).]

I would like to know just how many out there really, truly, are environmentalist? Not the “wanta be….. oh listen to me” type, but the true pioneer. You know, living life as it was lived in the 19th century. No modern convinces, medicines, cosmetics, toilets, and lets not forget toilet paper.

I too am a veteran, and honestly, it is my opinion that until you have fought on foreign soil for our own soil we call the United States of America, I really hold little value to your opinion of how our soils (sand in this case) should be used. What price has these hypocritical environmentalist paid to dare to take away something that was enjoyed by, how many people was it, 190,000 (?) over last Thanksgiving.

Blu, you probably really believe in what you say, but take a bit of advice from someone who’s career was in research. There are much bigger, far more important issues concerning the good and the best for mankind. Stand up for what you feel, that is everyone’s right, but do everyone a favor, and learn more about what is going on in the world, and within our own homeland. Then set your priorities, and pursue them.

FastCR80…….. grow up. Statements like your last post does nothing more than fuel the environmentalist arguments about the irresponsible off roaders. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

What Blu has done in the past, he continues to do, and people keep on falling for it! He diverts you all from the original topic! When he does that, just mention that is what he is doing and don't fall for it! When you just make personal attacks on Blu, you aren't winning the arguement. I know most of you don't like him. That's fine. Don't let him mess with you that way.


Now, this thread started with a question that if land is closed for future generations, wouldn't it still be closed when those "future" generations come along? That was the original point of this thread.
My thoughts; lock up land now and it will remain locked. This will only cause more crowding in areas that are open. The population of this planet is going to continue to grow (not because of me though,I have never had children and won't ever) and the available land is finite: we aren't making any more of it. More people on less land. Not right. Not fair. Not just.

u know when it closes if it closes that the MOMENT they open it back up.. your gonna have our kids and grandkids out there playing in the dirt just like our dirty old asses did when we were younger... am i right... kinda like a tradition that never quits... Glamis is gonna be carried throught generations and be passed down that type of things.. .our kids and grandkids are going to want to see this place that we call heaven. when it opens its gonna be a giant party all over again be it in 5 years or 50 years...

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ISBB - I_SHOT_BIGBIRD

hazmaster you beat me to it.. blusky driving off road and riding on the trails oh and lets not forget that hiking has an impact also. just look at all the hiking trails to the peaks of the sierra's. its like if we could go back in time and we step squish on bug it could change history.. blusky is a hipocrite and so are all that say they are for the environment. well its like this they are for the environment except when it comes to living in a house, driving their cars, putting food on their table, you get the point. lets shut everything down is nto the answer. what needs to be done is to find an equal medium. but it seems like that is never gona be possible.

im just sick of everybody telling me what i can and cant do.

a blast from the past

just gotta get people all riled up dont ya??

HAHA
I just thought it was funny that some of them show up as annonymus, and others dont show up at all.

Wondered 'bout that..

Holy thread resurection Batman!!!

At to think, the two main players in this thread no longer post here.

Robbie, one of these day's, I'm gonna ..aaggghhhh..

Do you know how high you sent my blood pressure???

THEN I saw the date.

Ya got me dude.

Too funny.

Damn you got me too i was just shaking my head i couldnt believe the troll was back! lol good one Robbie