Bluesky………. do you have children? If so, how old? What do you do with your own kids, or if you are young yourself, what do you do with your parents? Your ideas to save the environment are noble, but how about focusing on issues that are actually a much greater concern than the politicians want you to know.
Just for fun, how about we talk about one of many, many problems…… water pollution? Have you any clue just how serious our drinking water supply is really in? Everyone knows of the Colorado River……. Have you read any studies about the pollution from pesticides, and fertilizers from the farmers? Should we outlaw farming? Have you done any reading on our ground water table? How about all of the wells coming up polluted? Just how deep will wells have to be drilled to find clean water?
I could write a thesis strictly on topics of real concern. You seem to be locked on an off road issue. To me, family is extremely important. Maybe you just don’t get it, but I challenge you to come up with one single activity where you will see so many families, two, three, and even sometimes four generations in the same camp. The concept of overseeing environmental issues is to make sure it is available for public use and enjoyment. Kind of hypocritical to even suggest that the dunes be closed, so the hundreds of families that have enjoyed them will never get to enjoy the best family activity I experienced my whole life.
Show me an activity that has such an age spread that actually enjoys being around together. Show me an activity where you can ride 10 minutes, and be part of a group from a few people, to dozens of people. Take a 10 minute ride in a different direction, and have the feeling of being alone.
Bluesky, share a little about yourself. Qualify just where you are coming from. If you tell me that you have a political agenda, I will understand some of your comments. Claiming environmental concerns, be real, and focus on “real” problems.
Full Version: Bluesky........... Conservationist or Politician
I would rather not share about the details of my life.
As far as the other questions, I support family activities, but I know you don't need to tear up critical habitat with motorized vehicles to have fun with your kids.
Water supplies, air pollution, world peace, civil rights--I could name many subjects worth fighting for and I do support some orgs that are not eco-related.
For right now off-road impacts to our natural areas is something that I am active about.
I am still reading "Wildlands recreation" by Wellman. It's a textbook history of the National Parks, forests, etc and mentions John Muir, Gifford Pichot, teddy roosevelt, and more. Seems like the "wise use" vs. conservation folks have been at it for over 100 years and the pendulum swings back and forth--there's never a final settlement. just look what GW has done to Clinton era management solutions.
I see offroad rec as increasing and increasingly having a negative impact on lands outside of the open areas. Some of my brothers and sisters in the conservation movement think that Open areas should be restricted--as at Glamis. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I have seen that cross-country riding and the establishment of rogue open areas continues daily. When there can be some guarantee of control of riders outside of open areas, I will feel better about supporting Open areas.
thanks for asking
how about you? care to share your background and views further? are you involved in any orgs or movements that deal with problems like population, foreign policy etc?
As far as the other questions, I support family activities, but I know you don't need to tear up critical habitat with motorized vehicles to have fun with your kids.
Water supplies, air pollution, world peace, civil rights--I could name many subjects worth fighting for and I do support some orgs that are not eco-related.
For right now off-road impacts to our natural areas is something that I am active about.
I am still reading "Wildlands recreation" by Wellman. It's a textbook history of the National Parks, forests, etc and mentions John Muir, Gifford Pichot, teddy roosevelt, and more. Seems like the "wise use" vs. conservation folks have been at it for over 100 years and the pendulum swings back and forth--there's never a final settlement. just look what GW has done to Clinton era management solutions.
I see offroad rec as increasing and increasingly having a negative impact on lands outside of the open areas. Some of my brothers and sisters in the conservation movement think that Open areas should be restricted--as at Glamis. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I have seen that cross-country riding and the establishment of rogue open areas continues daily. When there can be some guarantee of control of riders outside of open areas, I will feel better about supporting Open areas.
thanks for asking
how about you? care to share your background and views further? are you involved in any orgs or movements that deal with problems like population, foreign policy etc?
Bluesky ………. You sound like a politician, not a conservationist. You failed to answer my primary question. If we “protect” any given area, or resource for the good of mankind, or to ensure it is available for mankind in the future, please, name me one (1) activity that has a stronger bond of family than Southern Ca. off roading.
If you take a political stand, then one does tend to keep as private as possible. I can respect that…. As for conservation, you should be proud of who oyu are and where you come from.
Glamis dunes…….. drinking water! Glamis is family activity, drinking water kind of essential for “all” life forms, especially humans. There is no choice. Blue, you have a basic concept about the environment, but sadly you are misguided. Open land vs. developing land are two different subjects. Do yourself some reading on development, both commercial and residential. You might be surprised or maybe even shocked if you study density numbers. Have you even sat in freeway traffic? Or should I say parked in traffic. Would you say that our classrooms are over crowded? Lets talk about environmental issues, and the good for mankind, lets not focus on off roading in the open lands of the desert. Lets focus on how lands are built on and developed.
As for sharing some of my own life, I have no problem with that. Actually I am proud of both my life and my family. I have been in and now retired from ocean research. I was raised in Detroit Michigan, college was Central Michigan University. I was a survival instructor in the Air Force. I have a son and daughter, who I am very proud to say a both very successful in work, and are both off roaders. I have been riding the dunes at Glamis for over 20 years. I grew up riding my bicycle (this was before mountain bikes were born) then mini bikes, motorcycles, three wheelers, quads, and now strictly buggies. I will stand face to face with anyone who tries to tell me I do not love the environment. I spent many years as a volunteer diver, diving in waters so polluted that I would wear a dry suit, and have to receive a hepatitis shot. I participate in many organizations, and volunteer groups. Over my professional years, I have known some “real” environmentalists. (individuals that are even more basic than Quakers)
Blue, I do respect you attitude, and concerns on environmental issues. Two suggestions, 1) focus your reading on papers that have been accepted and published in a scientific publication. These are papers and studies that are accepted on there factual merit, not an article with a political agenda. I don’t mean just any book or magazine article that is published, but “scientific” publications. 2) focus on issues that not only effect or day to day lives, and the future of our children, grandchildren, etc., I am sure that you will have your eyes open, and see things completely different.
Like I asked, Conservationist or Politician? If you are concerned over the environment, educate yourself, and focus on issues that need to be addressed. Then you will become part of the solution. If your platform is politics, than you are part of the problem.
If you take a political stand, then one does tend to keep as private as possible. I can respect that…. As for conservation, you should be proud of who oyu are and where you come from.
Glamis dunes…….. drinking water! Glamis is family activity, drinking water kind of essential for “all” life forms, especially humans. There is no choice. Blue, you have a basic concept about the environment, but sadly you are misguided. Open land vs. developing land are two different subjects. Do yourself some reading on development, both commercial and residential. You might be surprised or maybe even shocked if you study density numbers. Have you even sat in freeway traffic? Or should I say parked in traffic. Would you say that our classrooms are over crowded? Lets talk about environmental issues, and the good for mankind, lets not focus on off roading in the open lands of the desert. Lets focus on how lands are built on and developed.
As for sharing some of my own life, I have no problem with that. Actually I am proud of both my life and my family. I have been in and now retired from ocean research. I was raised in Detroit Michigan, college was Central Michigan University. I was a survival instructor in the Air Force. I have a son and daughter, who I am very proud to say a both very successful in work, and are both off roaders. I have been riding the dunes at Glamis for over 20 years. I grew up riding my bicycle (this was before mountain bikes were born) then mini bikes, motorcycles, three wheelers, quads, and now strictly buggies. I will stand face to face with anyone who tries to tell me I do not love the environment. I spent many years as a volunteer diver, diving in waters so polluted that I would wear a dry suit, and have to receive a hepatitis shot. I participate in many organizations, and volunteer groups. Over my professional years, I have known some “real” environmentalists. (individuals that are even more basic than Quakers)
Blue, I do respect you attitude, and concerns on environmental issues. Two suggestions, 1) focus your reading on papers that have been accepted and published in a scientific publication. These are papers and studies that are accepted on there factual merit, not an article with a political agenda. I don’t mean just any book or magazine article that is published, but “scientific” publications. 2) focus on issues that not only effect or day to day lives, and the future of our children, grandchildren, etc., I am sure that you will have your eyes open, and see things completely different.
Like I asked, Conservationist or Politician? If you are concerned over the environment, educate yourself, and focus on issues that need to be addressed. Then you will become part of the solution. If your platform is politics, than you are part of the problem.
I think hes a *****..
RoostKing...
[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-20-2002).]
RoostKing...
[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-20-2002).]
Berkley Grad, Liberal indoctrinated Bay Area ****?
Sounds about right?
As Vague as a Politico can get!
Its all about the Grants and the Free Money!
----------------------------
If your not the Solution? your the Problem!
[This message has been edited by WFO WR500 (edited 05-18-2002).]
[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-20-2002).]
Sounds about right?
As Vague as a Politico can get!
Its all about the Grants and the Free Money!
----------------------------
If your not the Solution? your the Problem!
[This message has been edited by WFO WR500 (edited 05-18-2002).]
[This message has been edited by DuneTroll (edited 05-20-2002).]
I don't think Blu is a conservationist. I think he is a PRESERVATIONIST. To paraphrase Muir "If thou hath lifted thy tool upon it, thou hath polluted it."
What Blue is is someone too lazy or incompetent to put up a fence or adequate signage around his property somewhere in the high desert. So instead he complains that the governemtn should be doing something about it and trying to solve the problem by banning OHV's.
At least that's what it sure seems like based on any number of his comments combined with a mix of things like his various e-mail address names, his form of internet connection, his choice of areas to photograph, his comments about where dammage is taking place, and a number of other teltale giveaways he's leaked.
In fact quite a number of people who choose not to get involved in his trolls are pretty sure they know exactly who he is but choose not to say in public because they not the kind of people to get involed in blue's style of mudslinging.
Of course blue refuses to answer any legitimate questions or provide any indication as to who they actually are. If more people knew they wouldn't even bother to argue with him because they'd understand just what kind of a person they're dealing with. Someone too lazy to take care of a problem they percieve on their own property so they try to pass new laws stopping that activity all together instead. So of course he'll just sit there and complain without ever actually doing anything. He'll continue to come up with unverifiable excuses about events the claims to be taking part in instead of actually showing up at a clean-up or God forbid, visit some of the areas he talks about closing down.
At least that's what it sure seems like based on any number of his comments combined with a mix of things like his various e-mail address names, his form of internet connection, his choice of areas to photograph, his comments about where dammage is taking place, and a number of other teltale giveaways he's leaked.
In fact quite a number of people who choose not to get involved in his trolls are pretty sure they know exactly who he is but choose not to say in public because they not the kind of people to get involed in blue's style of mudslinging.
Of course blue refuses to answer any legitimate questions or provide any indication as to who they actually are. If more people knew they wouldn't even bother to argue with him because they'd understand just what kind of a person they're dealing with. Someone too lazy to take care of a problem they percieve on their own property so they try to pass new laws stopping that activity all together instead. So of course he'll just sit there and complain without ever actually doing anything. He'll continue to come up with unverifiable excuses about events the claims to be taking part in instead of actually showing up at a clean-up or God forbid, visit some of the areas he talks about closing down.
Since you have to always sprinkle in words like "critical" and "habitat" when referring to dirt and sand could you please tell me where a non-critical habitat is that i could use for recreation. I started to go to Glamis when I decided that it was the lowest-impact I could enjoy myself. Would you prefer that I ride somewhere else? I think a pile of sand is that last place you would want to run people out of... it just screams prejudice against the type of person that you think I am and risk losing support from people that can put 2 and 2 together.
I am always open to reasonable solutions... environmentalist have yet to provide either...
-D
I am always open to reasonable solutions... environmentalist have yet to provide either...
-D
Blue, Blue, where are you?
Hitesman has once again shown the indefensible nature of his position. If all you can do is attack the identity of your opponent and not his arguments, what are you really saying?
I complain about recreational impacts to our environment. Whether this is on public land or private land, the effects are still the same!
On public land, at least you can say you're a member of the public and try to get the managing agency to allow you to impact the land. This is legal.
On private land where you are not the owner, nor have his permission--you are just plain trespassing AND damaging private property. If OHVs had license plates and could be identified, the owner or neighbor could document the activity with sworn statements, or better, videotaped evidence that could be presented in civil court where you could sue the perpertrators for the amount of money needed to restore the land to it's original condition.
to defend the riders who make these impacts at innumerable locations all over the desert soutwest is to condone their activities. This shows that you really have no concern or responsibility for the effects of your recreation on the world that belongs to everyone--not just you.
I complain about recreational impacts to our environment. Whether this is on public land or private land, the effects are still the same!
On public land, at least you can say you're a member of the public and try to get the managing agency to allow you to impact the land. This is legal.
On private land where you are not the owner, nor have his permission--you are just plain trespassing AND damaging private property. If OHVs had license plates and could be identified, the owner or neighbor could document the activity with sworn statements, or better, videotaped evidence that could be presented in civil court where you could sue the perpertrators for the amount of money needed to restore the land to it's original condition.
to defend the riders who make these impacts at innumerable locations all over the desert soutwest is to condone their activities. This shows that you really have no concern or responsibility for the effects of your recreation on the world that belongs to everyone--not just you.
wow, lots of talk but yet no answers. hhhmmmmmm sounds like a politico to me guys......
Nothing we ever say will show Blu that he is wrong, biased, and undereducated. YES, undereducated. A truly educated person would be able to judge something from all angles and accept all facts, not just the ones that help his or her cause.
Blu is hypocritical. He tells us that we dont answer his questions. WE HAVE YOU IDIOT. Your questions have never changed. Go back to the posts that answer them with facts and evidence supporting our answers. YOU BLU have not once answered our questions in a straight forward way with support or evidence.
This means one thing. Your complaints and arguements are not worthy of ANY consideration or time. And that is because they are WORHTLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like Blu to the human race, worthless.
this is an opinion from a guy fed up with the BS of it all.
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Wile E. Coyote survived flying off a 300 FT. sand dune.....
[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 05-21-2002).]
Blu is hypocritical. He tells us that we dont answer his questions. WE HAVE YOU IDIOT. Your questions have never changed. Go back to the posts that answer them with facts and evidence supporting our answers. YOU BLU have not once answered our questions in a straight forward way with support or evidence.
This means one thing. Your complaints and arguements are not worthy of ANY consideration or time. And that is because they are WORHTLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like Blu to the human race, worthless.
this is an opinion from a guy fed up with the BS of it all.
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Wile E. Coyote survived flying off a 300 FT. sand dune.....
[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 05-21-2002).]
Blue, Blue, Blue…………. I have read many opinions of others about you, but still I give you the chance to qualify yourself. I started this topic with a few simple questions and you threw them back at me. I know where I am coming from, and can back my statements with fact. Be a man, and step up with something factual. Then again, maybe you are only 13 yrs. old, and don’t know any better.
I have worked my entire career with conservationists, and had to rely on politicians for grant money. 90% of my career was from soft money (money awarded from proposals, and grants) and 10% hard money, (money issued by the State of California)
Science has taught me patience, and persistence.
Step up to the plate, or step away from this board.
I have worked my entire career with conservationists, and had to rely on politicians for grant money. 90% of my career was from soft money (money awarded from proposals, and grants) and 10% hard money, (money issued by the State of California)
Science has taught me patience, and persistence.
Step up to the plate, or step away from this board.
ice diver wrote:
" If we “protect” any given area, or resource for the good of mankind, or to ensure it is available for mankind in the future, please, name me one (1) activity that has a stronger bond of family than Southern Ca. off roading."
Is this the question you want me to answer? If you're a grown-up, you know that the ephemeral nature of our culture can produce any number of hobbies that have or can produce a strong bond between family members. How about swimming? fishing? kayaking? hiking? camping? jigsaw puzzles? music? boy/girl scouts, drama, baseball, soccer, racket sports, pets, plastic or wooden models, surfing,etc.
you can't use the fact that some folks have chosen to unite around an activity that has proven ill effects on everybody's public lands as an excuse to let it continue. Hey, what about all the accidents and even deaths associated with off-roading? do you want to promote such a dangerous activity to "bond" family members?
does that answer your question?
" If we “protect” any given area, or resource for the good of mankind, or to ensure it is available for mankind in the future, please, name me one (1) activity that has a stronger bond of family than Southern Ca. off roading."
Is this the question you want me to answer? If you're a grown-up, you know that the ephemeral nature of our culture can produce any number of hobbies that have or can produce a strong bond between family members. How about swimming? fishing? kayaking? hiking? camping? jigsaw puzzles? music? boy/girl scouts, drama, baseball, soccer, racket sports, pets, plastic or wooden models, surfing,etc.
you can't use the fact that some folks have chosen to unite around an activity that has proven ill effects on everybody's public lands as an excuse to let it continue. Hey, what about all the accidents and even deaths associated with off-roading? do you want to promote such a dangerous activity to "bond" family members?
does that answer your question?
quote from Blue number one:
How about swimming? fishing? kayaking? hiking? camping? jigsaw puzzles? music? boy/girl scouts, drama, baseball, soccer, racket sports, pets, plastic or wooden models, surfing,etc.
Swimming is not a sport its a survival skill
Fishing kills animals
Why do Kayakers wear helmets?
Hiking? Ya mean walking? Oh joy!
We do camp when we ride
Jigsaw puzzles? O.K. that takes care of the grandparents. Wasn't the question whole family?
Music? Name a musical group with four generations in it.
Boy/girl scouts exclude the grandparents great grandparents.
Drama? Like what being an Eviro nazi?
baseball, soccer and racket sports usually involve the kids doing their thing while the parents play chauffeur again where's the grand parents?
My pets are not a hobby their family members!
Plastic or wooden models? PERVERT!!!
And did you see what happen to Greg Brady when he was in the surfing contest?
BLUES, give it up. PLEASE. Its really getting old. I try & I try to avoid this section but then I read something & I'm fuming.
You guys come in and try to destroy a guys perfectly good time while he's playing in the sand. In case you can't read here's a visual for you.
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[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/oleg/line_constuction.art[/img]
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/oleg/Logo_1.art[/img]
How about swimming? fishing? kayaking? hiking? camping? jigsaw puzzles? music? boy/girl scouts, drama, baseball, soccer, racket sports, pets, plastic or wooden models, surfing,etc.
Swimming is not a sport its a survival skill
Fishing kills animals
Why do Kayakers wear helmets?
Hiking? Ya mean walking? Oh joy!
We do camp when we ride
Jigsaw puzzles? O.K. that takes care of the grandparents. Wasn't the question whole family?
Music? Name a musical group with four generations in it.
Boy/girl scouts exclude the grandparents great grandparents.
Drama? Like what being an Eviro nazi?
baseball, soccer and racket sports usually involve the kids doing their thing while the parents play chauffeur again where's the grand parents?
My pets are not a hobby their family members!
Plastic or wooden models? PERVERT!!!
And did you see what happen to Greg Brady when he was in the surfing contest?
BLUES, give it up. PLEASE. Its really getting old. I try & I try to avoid this section but then I read something & I'm fuming.
You guys come in and try to destroy a guys perfectly good time while he's playing in the sand. In case you can't read here's a visual for you.
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[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/oleg/line_constuction.art[/img]
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/oleg/Logo_1.art[/img]
(blu) Hey, what about all the accidents and even deaths associated with off-roading? do you want to promote such a dangerous activity to "bond" family members?
Well I guess in this statetment it is as emty as all the rest you make. I suppose you think all the freeways and high ways should be band and closed do to the accidents and deaths. Don't put your family in a car. There are a lot more deaths and injuries on the roads as to off road. Of course you would count off road racing in your totals.
I would rather my son be driving off road any day than on the freeways.
It would have been real funny when you stopped on the side of the freeway to take those photo's of the private land that you no nothing about, you would have gotten a ticket. It would have been real sad if someone had run into your car parked on the shoulder. You need to learn the laws and abide by them as the rest of us do. You just plain need to get a life.
I been retired sence 1994 and I have plenty to do without interfearing with other peoples lives. You should find another hobby...
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Les la bon ton roola !
(Let the good times roll)
Well I guess in this statetment it is as emty as all the rest you make. I suppose you think all the freeways and high ways should be band and closed do to the accidents and deaths. Don't put your family in a car. There are a lot more deaths and injuries on the roads as to off road. Of course you would count off road racing in your totals.
I would rather my son be driving off road any day than on the freeways.
It would have been real funny when you stopped on the side of the freeway to take those photo's of the private land that you no nothing about, you would have gotten a ticket. It would have been real sad if someone had run into your car parked on the shoulder. You need to learn the laws and abide by them as the rest of us do. You just plain need to get a life.
I been retired sence 1994 and I have plenty to do without interfearing with other peoples lives. You should find another hobby...
------------------
Les la bon ton roola !
(Let the good times roll)
Blue……. Congratulations……. You actually attempted to write something. But you failed to say anything. If you want anyone to think of you as anything other than an annoyance, or a joke, write something reasonable, something with substance. I can only guess that you are very young. Blue, you are nothing but a coward. You challenged me about my background. Now I challenge you back. Show some accountability, and please, make an attempt to qualify your priorities. My background is (was) in the field of scientific studies. This whole issue of what to do with open, public land is nothing more than a political platform to get the public (I should say “diverting” the public) away from REAL environmental issues. Where the difference comes in is big business that lobbies for public attention on an issue, while the politicians allow real issues to go without notice. A smoke screen to the real issues.
Allow me to suggest an issue that needs you focus on. I mean an issue that currently has a sever impact on our lives today, including everyone’s health, both man, plant and animal. Focus on storm drain runoff…. inadequate sewer treatment plants and water systems.
A question for you Mr. Blue…….
How about the recent news of some lakes that have algae taking over in fresh water lakes, and “killing” other forms of life. What would you suggest to do about this subject?
Allow me to suggest an issue that needs you focus on. I mean an issue that currently has a sever impact on our lives today, including everyone’s health, both man, plant and animal. Focus on storm drain runoff…. inadequate sewer treatment plants and water systems.
A question for you Mr. Blue…….
How about the recent news of some lakes that have algae taking over in fresh water lakes, and “killing” other forms of life. What would you suggest to do about this subject?
Blue,
I can GUARANTEE that some of the activites you do have adverse affects on EVERYBODY also- however, none of us are trying to stop you from doing them (except for maybe the whining. . .)
Stacy
[This message has been edited by Stacy (edited 05-21-2002).]
I can GUARANTEE that some of the activites you do have adverse affects on EVERYBODY also- however, none of us are trying to stop you from doing them (except for maybe the whining. . .)
Stacy
[This message has been edited by Stacy (edited 05-21-2002).]
hey blu! where did you say you lived?
[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 05-22-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 05-22-2002).]
Yo Blue......I read in the news that a little boy was just killed by getting hit in the chest by a baseball.
Easy Question for Bluesky: Where would you propose that offroaders/duners go to recreate and spin our tires!
Easy Question for Bluesky: Where would you propose that offroaders/duners go to recreate and spin our tires!
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