Full Version: PMV?????
Can anyone tell me what the PMV is good for?? I just thought it had to be good for something to help mankind, since its gettin alot of attention.
quote:
Can anyone tell me what the PMV is good for
1. it's a plant that can live in the dunes without any water or food.
2. It can resist wind, sandstorms and LOTS of sun.
3. It only germinates in wet years
4. it's got some kind of weird chemicals in it that make it dangerous to eat.( maybe protects it from being eaten by other dune animals)
Scientists haven't yet found a market for this plant to put a dollar value on it, but like so many native plants and animals, you can have them around without maintaining them.
Think what it would be like if the cowboys had not killed all the buffalo and plowed under the native grasses. We could eat buffalo steak without feeding or watering the beasts!!
how about all the trouble we go to plant lawns, trees and pretty plants. yet when we stop watering them, they die.
Where does our water come from? Most of our water comes in canals from rivers or snowfall that is diverted for our use. We use lots of the water to irrigate lawns and decorative plants and trees. If we used more native plants, we wouldn't have to use the water!!!
The PMV is a native plant. Can you think of any uses for it?
Bluesky……… For once, you actually made a point. ANY PLANT THAT IS SO RUGGED, DOES NOT NEED TO BE PROTECTED.
Ps: As always, the facts you stated have multiple errors
Ps: As always, the facts you stated have multiple errors
Can anyone tell me what the PMV is good for??
Its Good for Nothing !
Its Good for Nothing !
quoteQUOTE1. it's a plant that can live in the dunes without any water or food.
Only for awhile. Nothing that is considered "alive" can live completely without water. Yes, the PMV does grow more abundantly in wet years than in dry.
quoteQUOTEThink what it would be like if the cowboys had not killed all the buffalo and plowed under the native grasses. We could eat buffalo steak without feeding or watering the beasts!!
"Cowboys" didn't kill off the buffalo. They were too busy punching cows. Buffalo hunters killed many of them and the native Americans took as many as they could get and had no qualms whatsoever about killing the last one (especially the Commanches).
quoteQUOTEThe PMV is a native plant. Can you think of any uses for it?
Sure, I can! It's a great decoration in the dunes and we ought to be allowed to ride out and see them! Other than that, nope! Can't think of anything. You can't eat it, use it for building anything, has no medicinal purpose. Just a pretty decoration. We ought to "pot" them and sell them so we can have money to extend Gecko Road!!
[This message has been edited by Washroad (edited 05-23-2002).]
quoteQUOTEhas no medicinal purpose.
should we wipe it out because no purpose has been discovered yet?
Are you a Naturalist? Do you believe in a Supreme Being?
Do you think man should cause extinctions of living things?
It might be a result of our economy. When just a few desert nuts fixed up their own buggies by hand and rode them at the dunes, the harm they caused was minimal. then honda and kawasaki and the rest stepped in and mass produced and marketed vehicles that anyone could buy to ride in the dunes. So now we've got a problem because nobody asked themselves if there was a limit to how many of these vehicles could fit in the dunes before they had unreasonably heavy impacts on the environment.
I say open up all the dunes and the whole desert to folks that made their own vehicle.
the rest of us can walk or ride a horse.
I say open all the dunes up to anybody who has a buggy, quad, or bike. If a person wants to ride a horse or hike through the dunes, that's fine too. If a person wants to hike where they don't have to hear the noise of motorized vehicles then go hike on the north side of 78. As far as the PMV, it's a weed. Doesn't serve any purpose. Kind of like the tumbleweed.
"Eat buffalo steaks without feeding or watering the beasts?" How would you get to them to butcher them? They would be on "WILDERNESS" designated areas and you wouldn't have access to them, FOOL.
"Eat buffalo steaks without feeding or watering the beasts?" How would you get to them to butcher them? They would be on "WILDERNESS" designated areas and you wouldn't have access to them, FOOL.
quote:
I say open up all the dunes and the whole desert to folks that made their own vehicle.
the rest of us can walk or ride a horse.
I say, leave the dunes alone. They are doing quite well without you and others trying to "manage" them.
They are open to ALL right now. What you suggest would close them to MASS NUMBERS and would be quite unfair.
I, as a member of the taxpaying public, own part of that land just like you do
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
[quote]1. it's a plant that can live in the dunes without any water or food.[quote]
Untrue as washroad stated. The plant does depend on moisture in the ground albeit a minute amount. Aproximately 80% die out during the summer I would assume because of lack of moisture. They can last the duning season but take away the water and it's goodbye till next rainfall.
As for food, how can a plant grow from nothing? A seed doesn't contain the required amount of energy used to grow a fully developed Milkweed. It has to use the nutrients it can glean from the sand. It uses those nutrients to grow taller and wider. To say the weed doesn't use water or food is a very ignorant statement from someone who professes to care about the enviroment as you do.
Untrue as washroad stated. The plant does depend on moisture in the ground albeit a minute amount. Aproximately 80% die out during the summer I would assume because of lack of moisture. They can last the duning season but take away the water and it's goodbye till next rainfall.
As for food, how can a plant grow from nothing? A seed doesn't contain the required amount of energy used to grow a fully developed Milkweed. It has to use the nutrients it can glean from the sand. It uses those nutrients to grow taller and wider. To say the weed doesn't use water or food is a very ignorant statement from someone who professes to care about the enviroment as you do.
well ice diver beat me to it.. Why protect it if it grows with or without water.. something that self sufficient doesnt need to be protected.
blu-- you were getting at something, if we plant more native plants on our property we would use less water to keep them alive.. atleast thats what i think you said.. so in short you are telling everybody to go and dig up these plants and move them to our homes.. well to me that doesnt sound like a bad idea.. then you might leave the dunes alone.. but then you will try to keep us from going into our own homes..
blu-you stated that open the whole desert to people who make their own people. how far are you willing to go with this. i think its a great idea. every single duner or dirt rider has done that to their toys at one point. or are you gona start putting regulations on what is considered what people make themselves.
blu-- you were getting at something, if we plant more native plants on our property we would use less water to keep them alive.. atleast thats what i think you said.. so in short you are telling everybody to go and dig up these plants and move them to our homes.. well to me that doesnt sound like a bad idea.. then you might leave the dunes alone.. but then you will try to keep us from going into our own homes..
blu-you stated that open the whole desert to people who make their own people. how far are you willing to go with this. i think its a great idea. every single duner or dirt rider has done that to their toys at one point. or are you gona start putting regulations on what is considered what people make themselves.
Hey blu,
You think us Off-roaders are a tough lot to deal with, try telling the FARMERS that they should plant less water needy foods.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
You think us Off-roaders are a tough lot to deal with, try telling the FARMERS that they should plant less water needy foods.
Vor
------------------
May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
Bluesky: YOU DIDN NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!
It was "what is the PMV good for?"
Your 1-4 just states what it does and how it grows. Then you get into buffalos? WTF?
Why do you feel obligated to post on something you know nothing about (uses for the PMV)...
The answer is that there is no know use for the PMV......yet.
Blue: You need to go see your doctor because **** is coming out of your mouth!
It was "what is the PMV good for?"
Your 1-4 just states what it does and how it grows. Then you get into buffalos? WTF?
Why do you feel obligated to post on something you know nothing about (uses for the PMV)...
The answer is that there is no know use for the PMV......yet.
Blue: You need to go see your doctor because **** is coming out of your mouth!
You'd have to walk or ride camels, horses couldn't make it through the dunes. And if you do ride camels, make sure they don't accidently munch on the PMV, it has horrible affects.
I think weve all seen nature change more in just a couple hours than we can do in an entire season with our vehicles.My last trip just a few weeks ago after 2 strong days of winds was as if no person/or vehicle had ever touched mother "g".Nature/wind created these dunes and could bury every plant/weed in its path within hours and it does happen.Days/weeks later another windstorm passes thru and vegitation is undamaged and survives.In my opinion mother nature can be far more damaging than any vehicle and yet the dunes survive and will be out there for generations to come!!!
ADDICT, THE LANDSCAPING STYLE IN QUWSTION IS CALLED ZEROSCAPING BY THE PROS. I USED TO INSTALL ALOT OF THOSE AND THEY DO SAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF WATER. WE NEVER USED MILKVETCH BUT THAT IS AN INTERESTING IDEA. I WILL BE DOING SOME RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT INTO SOME REINTRODUCTION TECHNIQUES FOR THIS PLANT. I GUESS IF IT CAN BE GIVEN THE NECESSARY ENVIRONMENT(IF INDEED ONE IS REALLY NECESSARY) AND FLOURISHES UNDER BACKYARD CONDITIONS THEN IT COULD BE PRODUCED ON A COMMERCIAL LEVEL AND THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY END THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST ISSUE. HOW ABOUT IT BLU? IF I CAN MAKE THIS A REALITY, WHATS THE NEXT THING YOU'LL TRY TO USE TO TAKE MY FUN? LET ME KNOW IN ADVANCE SO I CAN BE READY TO END THAT ISSUE TOO. THANKS. P.S. I AM IN VERY WELL WITH SOME HEAVY HITTERS IN THE NURSERY BUSINESS AND SOME EXCELLENT HORTICULTURE PROFESSORS SO I'M NOT BABBLING. ANYBODY WANNA GET INVOLVED?
tecateman,
This does sound like an interesting idea, but I don't think it would solve the original problems with it being listed under the ESA.
My understanding is that a domestic species is going to be genetically different from the wild one and would not count. This issue came up with the salmon in northern California. The salmon were coming back to the rivers and streams, but most of them were not genetically identical to the wild salmon that had been listed.
If you do go ahead with the project, I imagine you would have to modify the plant since I believe it can be poisonous in its current state. Your new milkvetch (astrogalus tecatus) would be suffiently different not to qualify as a twin, but would instead be a cousin.
No matter. I still think it would be a good project to undertake.
Cheers,
Spider
This does sound like an interesting idea, but I don't think it would solve the original problems with it being listed under the ESA.
My understanding is that a domestic species is going to be genetically different from the wild one and would not count. This issue came up with the salmon in northern California. The salmon were coming back to the rivers and streams, but most of them were not genetically identical to the wild salmon that had been listed.
If you do go ahead with the project, I imagine you would have to modify the plant since I believe it can be poisonous in its current state. Your new milkvetch (astrogalus tecatus) would be suffiently different not to qualify as a twin, but would instead be a cousin.
No matter. I still think it would be a good project to undertake.
Cheers,
Spider
tecateman--
tell me more!!!
(really I'm interested!)
tell me more!!!
(really I'm interested!)
I'll tell you more BLU,,,,
Its only use is,,,
Closing 49,300 acres in the ISDRA
Its a WEED, and I have plenty in my backyard too, come get them...
Sub-Species: should NEVER be considered threatened or endangered without proof. This WEED was listed in 1998 without proof.
But we NOW have all the proof we need to DELIST this WEED.
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Do It In The DUNES!
ARE YOU AWAKE YET???
Its only use is,,,
Closing 49,300 acres in the ISDRA
Its a WEED, and I have plenty in my backyard too, come get them...
Sub-Species: should NEVER be considered threatened or endangered without proof. This WEED was listed in 1998 without proof.
But we NOW have all the proof we need to DELIST this WEED.
------------------
Do It In The DUNES!
ARE YOU AWAKE YET???
well well blu, welcome back. i'm sure you're interested but in the interest of making my experiment work i need to keep it private at this time. while i'm sure your intentions are honorable, some would try to *******ize the facts to continue their cause and since it technically is the center of this issue, well like i said before, i must protect my own and my projects privacy....sorry. spider, spider, if you are mentioning the salmon in the klammath area in northern california and southern oregon, you may want to check your facts on those salmon before the idiots starved out the farmers. approximately 80% of thoose salmon were offspring of hatchery bred salmon. as to your issues of genetics, i never said that i intend to change the plant in any way. plenty of landscaping plants are poisonous. go eat a leaf of nirium oleander, thats enough to kill a horse so imagine what it can do to us. its one of the most common hedge plants around and is drought tolerant. it's a beautiful plant because of the large blooms too. anyhow, changing the plant would be only a last resort. in my experience, and it is pretty extensive, the super hardy plants like milkvetch are the easiest to accomidate in controlled(think garden)setting. thanks for listening. oh yeah blu and spider i was serious about letting me know what your next issue to close MY DUNES, so i can get the proper people on it.
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
quoteQUOTEI AM IN VERY WELL WITH SOME HEAVY HITTERS IN THE NURSERY BUSINESS AND SOME EXCELLENT HORTICULTURE PROFESSORS SO I'M NOT BABBLING. ANYBODY WANNA GET INVOLVED?(by tecateman)
quote:
tell me more!!!
(really I'm interested!)
(by blu)
quoteQUOTEi'm sure you're interested but in the interest of making my experiment work i need to keep it private at this time.
(by tecateman)
am I missing something? sounded like tecateman was inviting participants or investors in a gardening project using PMV and other dought-tolerant plants. I responded and then tecateman says no thanks!
maybe you meant anybody but me?
[This message has been edited by Bluesky (edited 05-25-2002).]
Tecateman,
I'm having a hard time making sense of your last post. If you are not going to alter the milkvetch for use in landscaping, then what is the issue? Are planning on taking all of the seeds from the milkvetch plants in the dunes and planting them at the homes of people? I'm just not clear on your proposal.
The basic issue you brought up on domesticating for the purpose of eliminating an ESA issue remains. If growers start working with the milkvetch, they would immediately start selecting the plants that make better xeriscaping plants. Once people start using it for domestication, they would start to change it genetically from its wild version.
My facts on the salmon are actually quite straight. The introduction of genetically less diverse salmon from the hatcheries is not just a problem in Klamath (where I lived for a summer and my brother lived for years), but in Oregon, Washington and even on the east coast. I only brought it up because it is similar to the issue you are bringing up.
Is there a case of domestication eliminating an ESA issue? The situations I'm aware of only show that domestication can complicate the issue further.
I would like to hear what the "heavy hitters" in the landscape business and your professors say about this issue. I am certainly no expert and would be curious about what they would say.
Spider
I'm having a hard time making sense of your last post. If you are not going to alter the milkvetch for use in landscaping, then what is the issue? Are planning on taking all of the seeds from the milkvetch plants in the dunes and planting them at the homes of people? I'm just not clear on your proposal.
The basic issue you brought up on domesticating for the purpose of eliminating an ESA issue remains. If growers start working with the milkvetch, they would immediately start selecting the plants that make better xeriscaping plants. Once people start using it for domestication, they would start to change it genetically from its wild version.
My facts on the salmon are actually quite straight. The introduction of genetically less diverse salmon from the hatcheries is not just a problem in Klamath (where I lived for a summer and my brother lived for years), but in Oregon, Washington and even on the east coast. I only brought it up because it is similar to the issue you are bringing up.
Is there a case of domestication eliminating an ESA issue? The situations I'm aware of only show that domestication can complicate the issue further.
I would like to hear what the "heavy hitters" in the landscape business and your professors say about this issue. I am certainly no expert and would be curious about what they would say.
Spider
OK OK BLU MY REASONS ARE VERY SIMPLE. IF I WERE TO EMPLOY ANY "ILLEGAL" MEANS TO AQUIRE SPECIMENS AND THOSE SPECIMENS WERE TO BE USED TO END YOUR CLOSURE ARGUMENTS, WOULD IT NOT BE LOGICAL FOR YOU TO POINT ME OUT TO THE NECESSARY AGENCIES AND EFFECTIVELY END OUR CHANCES? MAYBE I'M PARANOID, BUT AS YOU SUPPORT THE AGENCIES AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT PUT MORE VALUE ON THE LIVES OF PLANTS AND ANIMALS THAN THEY DO ON HUMAN LIVES, I AM VERY RELUCTANT TO REVEAL MY NAME OR PLANS. AGAIN I'M SORRY BUT THANKS FOR THE OFFER.
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
OH I ALMOST FORGOT BLU, I READ THE POSTS MORE OFTEN THAN THAN I ACTUALLY POST BUT I NOTICED YOU WOULDN'T REVEAL WHO OR WHERE OR EVEN WHAT YOU ARE. THAT MAKES ME EVEN MORE WARY OF YOU.
Blue i believe he was asking if any of the "good guys" (meaning us duners) wanted to get in on this plan...
If you were bombing afghanistan right now would you ask for bin ladens help? that would be kinda counter-productive now wouldent it?...
Hi inolongerrideatecateman haha...go get 'em
If you were bombing afghanistan right now would you ask for bin ladens help? that would be kinda counter-productive now wouldent it?...
Hi inolongerrideatecateman haha...go get 'em
NOW, NOW SPIDER DON'T TAX THE TECATE BRAIN SO MUCH AFTER A LONG WEEKEND. LETS JUST FORGET THE SALMON, WE DON'T HAVE THOSE AT GLAMIS. WE DO ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE PIERSON'S LOCOWEED OH I MEAN MILKVETCH.LOL. I ADMIT I HAVEN'T DONE MUCH RESEARCH INTO THE ISSUE AT HAND. I HAVE HEARD IN THE PAST THAT PIERSON'S MILKVETCH GROWS IN OTHER AREAS OF THE DESERT. IS THIS A FACT? MY MOTIVATION FOR THE TRANSPLANT IDEA IS THAT TO MY KNOWLEDGE NOBODY HAS TRIED IT. I READ A BLURB SOMEWHERE THAT ONE OF THE "LESS THAN SCIENTIFIC" STUDIES DONE IN RECENT YEARS MENTIONED IT COULDN'T BE MOVED BECAUSE OF THE ROOT SYSTEM. I'D LIKE TO GO OUT AND SEE WHY WITH MY OWN EYES. MY GOAL IN SHORT SPIDER IS TO SEE HOW THIS HARDY LITTLE PLANT WILL ADAPT TO CONTROLLED CONDITIONS IF INDEED IT NEEDS TO DO MUCH ADAPTATION. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KEEP IT SELF GERMINATING SO THAT THERE IS NO GENETIC DIFFERENCE. YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING IN YOUR POST COMMERCIAL GROWERS. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GROWERS OUT THERE, INCLUDING ONES THAT DEAL ONLY WITH ORIGINAL PLANT MATERIAL WITHOUT ANY GRAFTING. WELL GOTTA GO NOW. WE'LL SEE HOW THIS ALL WORKS OUT IN THE FUTURE. LOOK FOR ME SOON, I'LL BE THE GUY WITH THE "ORGANIC MILKVETCH" STAND OUTSIDE OF YOUR SIERRA CLUB AND CBD MEETINGS SELLING SAMPLES IN A FEW YEARS.LOL
THANX STAR. TALK ABOUT HITTING THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!
Everytime I read one of Blu's posts my IQ starts to drop. (and we all know I don't have much to spare)
[This message has been edited by Rubberneck (edited 05-29-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Rubberneck (edited 05-29-2002).]
Hey, tecateman, I want to do some gardening at my house, rip out some bushes, put something else in. We can use my garden as the experiment place. 
And Blu, I think that the Human Race has the right to wipe out a plants in an area [B]designated[B] for off road use. That's why we have the habitate north (west) of the 78. To protect plants that grow out there from off roaders and extinction. Enviros give us places to ride, then take them away. Enviros are indian givers. Why don't you go buy some more purfume so peaple can go kill some more whales to make it. Oh, well, I hate this topic.
And Blu, I think that the Human Race has the right to wipe out a plants in an area [B]designated[B] for off road use. That's why we have the habitate north (west) of the 78. To protect plants that grow out there from off roaders and extinction. Enviros give us places to ride, then take them away. Enviros are indian givers. Why don't you go buy some more purfume so peaple can go kill some more whales to make it. Oh, well, I hate this topic.
Whats the PMV good for? Its good for closing down Glamis. Ask any environmental nut.
finally i got a straight forward answer. thank you.
in my opinion i dont think they will ever shut down glamis. there are too many groups fighting to keep it open. i am just worried about what the plan is gona be. if they just open it to 50,000 people at a time thats cool. it wont affect us much except for holiday weekends. bummer.
so its just like i suspected. the plant is really good for nothing.
hey blu a while back i think you made a commment about you hate when any living thing get killed. can i ask you what your house is made of??? you know it was living at one time before it turned into your house.
enviros are just hipocrites with nothing better to do than cause problems.
i hope one day your daughter (if you have one) dates some guy with a 4x4 or a OHV. that would be just way too funny.
in my opinion i dont think they will ever shut down glamis. there are too many groups fighting to keep it open. i am just worried about what the plan is gona be. if they just open it to 50,000 people at a time thats cool. it wont affect us much except for holiday weekends. bummer.
so its just like i suspected. the plant is really good for nothing.
hey blu a while back i think you made a commment about you hate when any living thing get killed. can i ask you what your house is made of??? you know it was living at one time before it turned into your house.
enviros are just hipocrites with nothing better to do than cause problems.
i hope one day your daughter (if you have one) dates some guy with a 4x4 or a OHV. that would be just way too funny.
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