Spider
Jun 4 2002, 10:38 AM
Folks,
Here's an editorial from the LA Times on the Wilderness Bill. You can read some background on the bill under the news section here.
The article says there has been consultation with off-roaders. I'm wondering who was consulted.
Cheers,
Spider
EDITORIAL
Wilderness as Legacy Wildness can be a perishable thing, succumbing to the bite of the chain saw, the ruts of the all-terrain vehicle and the seemingly inevitable crush of development. As California's population soars toward 50 million, our remaining wild lands become more precious.
This generation has an obligation to future generations to save these places before they are overwhelmed by civilization. Congress can take a great stride this year by passing the proposed California Wild Heritage Wilderness Act of 2002, introduced Wednesday as S 2535 by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.). The measure would add 2.5 million acres to the state's federally protected wilderness system in 77 areas ranging from the desert of the southeast to the misty forests of the state's North Coast. The measure also would add 473 miles along 22 streams to the federal wild and scenic rivers network.
The plan would establish 39 new wilderness areas and add to 34 existing ones. California has 14 million acres of wilderness, much of it in remote parts of the Sierra Nevada, the Mojave Desert and the northern forests. The Boxer bill would expand wildernesses in both the Angeles and Los Padres national forests, including California condor habitat in Ventura County. Rep. Hilda L. Solis (D-El Monte) will bring a companion measure to the House.
The Wilderness Act of 1964 provides for setting aside areas "where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain." All the land in Boxer's proposal already is in federal ownership. Wilderness status prohibits commercial activity such as logging, mining and livestock grazing, although existing mining and grazing can continue.
There can be no motorized travel. Over the years, the most popular uses of wilderness areas have been hiking, backpacking and horseback riding. Now, an increasing number of Americans are visiting the backcountry to ski and snowshoe, hunt and fish, raft the streams, climb the peaks and simply enjoy the quiet and solitude.
The passage of wilderness legislation is always contentious. But Boxer and environmental supporters have worked for two years to limit opposition by consulting with local interests, mountain bikers, off-road vehicle enthusiasts and others.
One congressman says the bill violates the proper balance between people and the environment. In fact, wilderness allows humans to enjoy the land with minimal impact, as they should.
Some say there's already enough wilderness. But Henry David Thoreau had a response that is even more to the point today than when he wrote it in "Walden" in 1854: "We need the tonic of wildness.... We can never have enough of nature." Passage of the Boxer bill would be a good tonic for California.
BamBam
Jun 5 2002, 06:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spider:
Wilderness as Legacy Wildness can be a perishable thing, succumbing to the bite of the chain saw, the ruts of the all-terrain vehicle and the seemingly inevitable crush of development.
Hey, you know what? I went backpacking about, oh, 12 years ago. I went over Italy Pass (above Bishop) at 12,500ft. I went up to Mt. Hilgar while I was there that was about 13,420 ft high. While I was hiking, we followed a TRAIL. An actually TRAIL worn out by the feet of the hikers before me. ALL THE WAY UP TO THE PEAK OF ITALY PASS. Is this a RUT that the previous letter is talking about. Do you think that it's not going to get worste? Have you been to King's Canyon or Yosemite? There are TRAILS EVERYWHERE. All over the place there are hiking trails. Why? Because everyone goes THERE. They don't want to go to Glamis and hike, or they don't want to go to Stoddard Wells and hike. Anyway, are we going to close the forests off to foot traffic too? To preserve it for future kids, even though they can't walk on it because it's not allowed? People's feet are damaging the soil too! Hipocrates!
Fireballsocal
Jun 5 2002, 09:40 AM
I've been working on the 50HP but all I can get out of my bike is 47.
BamBam
Jun 5 2002, 10:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
But people need recreation
I'm not a person?
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
and we try to minimize their impacts on our natural areas by staying on the trails, maintaining the trails, pack it in/out, etc. Since you accept that feet can do damage, how about a 50 hp machine?
I try to minimize the impact by staying in designated OHV areas. Do you think ALL hikers stay on the trails? I don't think so. And I know not all OHV people stay in the designated areas too. But both sides have flaws. Live with it. Oh, the more OHV areas you take from us, the more outlaws riders you'll have...but your goal is to not let us ride ANYWHERE because we enjoy it and you don't.
[This message has been edited by BamBam (edited 06-05-2002).]
Copper
Jun 5 2002, 10:30 AM
BamBam,
I agree with you. If a person wants to recreate by hiking, fine. I choose to recreate with a buggy and a bike in the sand, where you leave no permenant tracks.
Fireballsocal
Jun 5 2002, 11:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
well I guess Hippocrates should know 
People's feet do damage the environment. But people need recreation and we try to minimize their impacts on our natural areas by staying on the trails, maintaining the trails, pack it in/out, etc. Since you accept that feet can do damage, how about a 50 hp machine?
So you also agree that both walking and atv's impact the enviroment. You draw the line at OHV's because you claim the impact from walking is an exceptable amount of damage but the impact from OHV's is not. I gotcha on that one Blue. You've decided based on your observations that atv's are bad for the enviroment but walking is exceptable. Who are you to decide what is acceptable and what isn't?
BamBam
Jun 6 2002, 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
my handle is Bluesky. I'm an American citizen and a voter. I have common sense. I can see the limited impact that a human foot does to the ground compared to the extreme impact done by a motorized vehicle. I can see that you could accomodate hundreds of hikers/picnickers in a square mile of land, and still preserve the wildlife habitat there, whereas the number of OHVers would be crowded at 50 and the impacts severe. However, I don't make the decisions in a vacuum. I write letters that are considered by our recreation and land manager professionals along with your letters. Scientific reports have led biologists to unanimously condemn off-road impacts as unacceptable to wildlife habitat.
[This message has been edited by Bluesky (edited 06-06-2002).]
You're right BLUE. But I am an American Citizen and a voter. And the lands that we OHV people would like set aside for us won't have any picnicers or campers/hikers. We want to keep what little desert space we have left. That's all we're asking. You're right, motorized vehicles do have an impact on the environment, just like people, and I understand their effect is noticeable much sooner. But why take ALL of our land away? That's not right. Kind of like I can't get my coffee REALLY HOT from McDonald's because someone burned their lap. or like....ah, it's just like this country to take away things from people because some people don't think it's right. I tell you what, buy a big house with a huge backyard and give it to me, then I can ride there.
Crowdog
Jun 10 2002, 03:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spider:
The article says there has been consultation with off-roaders. I'm wondering who was consulted.
That is a lie. Boxer's staff consulted with the Mountain Bike folks, but not OHV!
Jon
Are you going to the Protest Rally on July 11, 2002?
http://www.crowley-offroad.com/protest_rally.htm