here are a few pics. of the "economy " mid -engine.

Sweet

Looks good. But can you explain what is going on with the top cage tubes in the rear? Why are they cut off like that?

the chassis isnt done.

there nothing enconomy about an S4

Makes sense to me.

Seems me and you have a different view of economy. How much is that beast?

My guess is two more down tubes to the rear cage ?.


.

I hope nobody takes this as an bash on this chassis, but I'm just wandering what's up with all of the tube splices? I'm a chassis builder myself, but I build tube frames for rockcrawlers I have seen it done before and if done right, it can be stronger than a single tube. Usually when I have seen it done in the past was when a cage got bent and got cut off and rebuilt OR when there needs to be several multi-plane bends in one tube. I admit that it would be easier to have a splice instead of 3 bends on different planes and I would probably do the same. I'm just curious what the reasoning behind it is in this situation?

yes there are going to be down tubes in the back,and when i say "economy" i mean $60-70,000 compared to $90-110,000 for my other mid engine car. and as far as the splices-i build all my cars to suit that particular person-sometimes necessitating changes in floor/midrail/roof/wheelbase length. i usually(with the mid engines) build the passenger compartment first (this guy is 6'3" tall) then move on to back and adjust motor/trans accordingly. the splices dont hurt any way,they are sleeved,fully welded and usually captured with another tube. depending on who you talk to-its stronger to miter and weld the tube( 4130) than to bend (stress) it-then weld on it and put more stress in it. just my .02-either way it is not coming apart.

WOW! Economoy is now $60,000?!

Nice looking by the way.

yes, Alan....looks like we got moved into the economy class

you did see the parenthasee's around economy right (did i spell it right?).sorry.

Yes

but its still funny

i realy like the extensive X-bracing

who cares about spelling :
im a foreigner and Alan is from Bakersfield

Yeah I know that splices, if done right can be stronger than a single tube. Just that in my experience with rockbuggy chassis....splices are usually used by more inexperienced builders that don't have the skills to do multi-plane bends accurately. Please don't think that I'm calling you inexperienced, because I don't know you from Jack and I would be a fool to do so. It's almost always easier to splice tube than to get a single tube bent and notched perfectly on several different planes....only guys that have tried will know exactly what I'm talking about

the multiple bends arent the problem-if the its a "standard" car then i can make the midrail in two halves( drivers/passengers side), same withe roof. any time the customer is taller than 5' 7" i move the bars on the floor and midrail behind your back, back 3-4" (or more) so your knees dont hit the steering wheel when you drive .when that is done it cuts into the engine compartnent room(mainly gas tank and radiator)-so the easiest thing to do is make the back half of the car after the drivers compartment is done.then you establish wheelbase,axle kick (fowards or backwards), trailing arm length etc. after the chassis is done ,go back and clean up the miters and you dont even know they are there.

Now don't take this as any sort of criticism. This is my experience of discussions with chassis designers in other forms of motorsports. Like road racing, formula types and Trophy trucks.

Their method is to first choose the components like engine, trans, suspension components and passenger compartment requirements.
After creating a "list" of the components with their functioning requirements( space needed, angles, stresses, materials, weights, etc), the basic layout and component positioning is finalized with regard to rules requirements of width, length, wheelbase, height, weight, etc.
Then and only then do they lay out the chassis. The chassis is only a "lace work" of material to connect the components in a way to maximize the physical requirements of torsional rigidity, beam strength and natural frequency desired to house the chosen components. Tubes go every direction to maximize the goal for that component.

Ever wonder why most racing chassis use a wide mix of rectangular, square, round tubing? And why they utilize a mix of mitred, bent and straight sections?


The many racing chassis that I've seen without their skin, to most, are not very pretty. Some might even call them confused and ugly.
But when keeping in mind the exact functionality of their goals, they're goddam works of art.

In one particular case, I remember a cluster of 9 tubes meeting in a singular 9 point star that looked like an 8 into 1 header just above the drivers right shoulder. As a fabber, that must have taken untold hours to get it all right and then TIG welded.

Buggy builders do a great job of creating asthetically pleasing works of art.
Just my comments...
Carl

just so you nkow the tubes dont end at the top-here they sre with the rest of the main bracing in the back.time to build the 20" longer x 7" wider (than stock) boxed trailing arms and set up the suspension.yeeeeeeee!! hawwwwwwwww!!!! by the way carl is right-you imagine the engine goes here,the driver goes there,suspension goes here,the gas tank goes there-and the rest "just falls inbetween", i.e. imagineer-not engineer (curt leduc quote).

talking about art:
looks like that white buggie in the background needs a artist to get it back together straight

Hey John,we had dinner with Jack and Bridget last night and they were talking about the new car.After describing it ,I remembered you posted about a mid on Friday.We looked up the progress once we rtrned home and Jack seemed pleased.Thats what its all about,giving the customer what they want.Congrats on the build, and I look forward to duning with this car next season.Jack is headed to Idaho on Thurs....any chance it will be done

LMAO!!!

Hey, not to jack the thread, but how's the weather in the high country?

And I guess our buggy must be the blue light special with a cost around 20K.