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Bluesky
http://www.dallasnews.com/localnews/city/c...aatv.a9b20.html


City wants to close off-road park
Riders say they have few other places to go

05/29/2002

By CURTIS HOWELL / The Dallas Morning News


Dirt bike riders and people with four-wheel all-terrain vehicles stand to lose one of the few remaining areas where they can ride legally in the Dallas region, if the city of Lavon has its way.

City officials want the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to close a 70-acre off-road vehicle park that has been open near Lake Lavon for more than 25 years.

Officials say new residents in the area complain of noise, traffic and parking problems associated with the network of trails and jumps, creeks and curves that draw users in droves on weekends.

In its place, they want an 18-hole golf course.

Off-roaders contend that the move is about money, that noise isn't an issue because the park is open from 9 a.m. to 5:30 p.m., and that people knew before they moved there that the area had been set aside for all-terrain vehicles.

Meanwhile, the corps is informing people that they have until June 30 to make their opinions known; a decision is expected in July or August.

Matt Melott, 16, of Lavon said he has been using the park since he was 3. His buddy, A.J. Morris, 17, of Garland got started a little later – age 6.

"Yeah, we pretty much grew up here," A.J. said Tuesday.

Matt, between rounds of bouncing on a red trail bike, said the park caters as much to families as anyone.

"I'd rather they didn't close it," he said.

Tony Tucker of Garland was more direct.

"I think it's bull," he said, when he learned of the corps' possible action to close the area.

After he unloaded his Kawasaki four-wheeler Tuesday for a morning run on the trails, he turned and pointed as a train passed nearby.

"They need to close the train track down, too, then," he said.

Terry Sullivan, also of Garland, said the park was the only place in the area left to ride.

"Where else are we going to go? We have to have a place to ride," she said, watching Tony air up a tire.

Local dealers say off-road vehicles are big business – between 30 percent and 40 percent of their sales.

"All of these customers are being squeezed out of places to ride," said Larry O'Neal, owner of Plano Kawasaki-Suzuki,

Besides the Lavon area, off-road motorcycle and four-wheeler riders have few choices: A corps area near Grapevine Lake is the only other public access area in the region, Mr. O'Neal said.

Three others in Weatherford, Muenster and Decatur, Mr. O'Neal said, are on private land and charge a fee for use.

Lavon is popular, he said, because it is big enough to offer a variety of terrain. It's easy for parents to keep an eye on young riders, he said, it's free, and, most of all, it's close enough that people can use it conveniently for a half-day if they want to.

"My fear is – these people are going to ride their stuff somewhere," Mr. O'Neal said.

Central Yamaha owner Dave Walters said he would rather see the corps charge a fee – something on the order of $10 a day if money is the issue – than close the area.

"There are dozens of places where people can play golf," Mr. Walters. said. "But this is the only off-road around in the Dallas area."

Another option, he said, might be to move the area to a more remote region of the lake that can't be used for anything else.

"The most godforsaken land on Earth is the best land for off-road riding," he said, "something that couldn't even be used for a golf course."

Lavon City Council member Brandon Wilson has been the council's main supporter of the golf course.

He said he could empathize with the off-roaders. "I've got a four-wheeler, and I ride it out there."

But many of the users abuse the privilege, he said, and have made the park a thorn in the city's side.

"The whole situation stems from complaints," he said. "After-hours riders – they put up a gate but [riders] still get in along the railroad. They ride outside the boundaries in environmentally sensitive areas."

The parking lot is small, he said, so people park on the narrow road leading to the area and create a hazard, even though the city writes tickets.

"And they ride their off-road vehicles on the street to get to the park," he said.

"This is not what the city wanted. It's the citizens wanting to correct illegal activity," Mr. Wilson said.

"If the users would have obeyed the law, this would never have come up," he said. But he added that the city also doesn't see any advantage to having the off-road area next door.

"Its time has come," he said. "Now we are developing and things change, and it's time for this to change, too."

He said there are developers willing to build the golf course, which would not provide any revenue to the city other than increased land values.

"We definitely want a golf course. It would be a plus," he said.

Lee Hunt, lake manager for the corps, said that at this point, he doesn't see a need for a public hearing but that one could be called if enough substantive issues are raised.

"Right now we are open," Mr. Hunt said. "We see good and bad on both sides," adding that off-road riding is a legitimate family activity.

"We want to put it out to the public and we want to know their feelings," he said. "We are trying to make an informed decision."

Those who have questions or are interested in commenting on the potential closure should write to Mr. Hunt at 3375 Skyview Drive, Wylie, TX 75098.

E-mail curthowell@dallasnews.com

or call 214-977-7472.
Sanduners
quote
QUOTE
Officials say new residents in the area complain


They should MOVE...

------------------
Do It In The DUNES!
ARE YOU AWAKE YET???
motoman
golf course? you got to be kidding me.

[This message has been edited by motoman (edited 06-01-2002).]
Motoholics
That sort of reminds me of a battle I had with "new residents" back in high school. The high school I went to (La Jolla) did not have a parking lot. We used to park on streets around the school. One summer the residents in the area asked the city to make the streets 2 hour parking only. The school had been there long before any of the want-to-be affluent home owners but the home owners won and now students have to park 3 blocks away from the school.

My best guess would be that OHV trails make up 10% of a riding area. The other 90% is natural and untouched. A golf course might plow 70-100% of the natural land. Sure the golf course puts grass back in place of the natural shrubs but plain grass is useless to a snake or a rodent trying to hide from a bird. In my opinion a golf course is only slightly less environmentally devastating than just paving the whole thing. 90% and a little noise on the weekends or 0% and no were to go, what do you think all the critters would prefer Bluesky?
DuneAddict
hey blu you named this "ohvers a pain in the btt everywhere". why are we a pain in the btt, why cause we wont let people like you just walk all over us and take away our rights. i try and stay civil and see your side but its imposible when you start out saying stuff like that.
as far as im concerned (and others will agree) i am sick and tired of your hipocritical mouth around here. you are part of the problem that this planet has not any kind of solution.
Bluesky
quote
QUOTE
why are we a pain in the btt,



quote:
Lavon City Council member Brandon Wilson has been the council's main supporter of the golf course.

He said he could empathize with the off-roaders. "I've got a four-wheeler, and I ride it out there."

But many of the users abuse the privilege, he said, and have made the park a thorn in the city's side.

"The whole situation stems from complaints," he said. "After-hours riders – they put up a gate but [riders] still get in along the railroad. They ride outside the boundaries in environmentally sensitive areas."

The parking lot is small, he said, so people park on the narrow road leading to the area and create a hazard, even though the city writes tickets.

"And they ride their off-road vehicles on the street to get to the park," he said.

"This is not what the city wanted. It's the citizens wanting to correct illegal activity," Mr. Wilson said.

Fireballsocal
Great quote to pull from that article Blu. You put a negative spin on it but watch how I see it.
This guy rides his quad out there with everyone else. Probobly been doing it for years. Maybe 10 years ago, the parking lot was big enough and the number of OHV'rs was small enough that everyone was happy. Most likely, there weren't homes close enough for people to get that upset about the noise.
Now, in the present day, the other available riding areas in the surrounding county have been shut down by developers or enviros or whoever. All the people that used those other areas have to funnel into the last open riding area which is no longer equiped to handle the amount of people. The green sticker funds aren't kicking in any money to enlarge the parking lot. There is no cash to put up other barriers along the train tracks or hire more rangers to enforce the area after hours. People have moved into the area and have decided that they don't like the noise so they complain to the city council. Now they want to build a golf course on this last remaining area so what happens to the offroaders? They start riding on areas not set aside for OHV use. They start "tearing up the land" where originally, no one would ride because they had a great place to ride with trails, jumps, and parking just up the street. Now these people and others in all areas of the US that are in the same predicimate (SP?) have to ride somewhere. How does the mojave sound? How does in your back yard sound? I can guarantee that some ****ed off kid is gonna go down to that golf course around 3 am and have a ball tearing it up on his dirtbike. It's definitely not right yet neither is how the governing body is treating the offroad community. My green sticker moneys should be used to keep riding areas available to me. Not to build a golf course so that old men in funny pants can get away from their wives for a few hours.
Bluesky
quote:
Texas is a state that is predominantly privately owned, and therefore off limits to the off-roading public. Texans don't take too kindly to trespassers, so most Texas off-roaders are forced to drive many long hours to a few, comparatively small, privately owned ORV parks. In the link provided below, the ORV park just happens to be owned by a small city, a rarity in this state... Apparently, one of the very few ORV parks open to motorcyle and ATV use (not open to trucks and Jeeps) in the North Texas area is threatened with closure by the city. The city wants to redevelop the ORV park into yet another golf course. Some of the snooty homeowners adjacent to the ORV park are apparently in favor of the golf course according to the article.

I realize the battle cry of "property rights" is often touted out West where the government owns a huge percentage of the land. But the opposite end of the spectrum is also not so appealing, at least not to multi-use recreationers. If I want to off-road my truck legally, I have to drive many hours and pay $15 to $30 at a small, privately owned ORV park. If I want to go deer hunting, instead of driving a short distance to a non-existent, state-owned wildlife management area, I have to drive many long hours and pay thousands of dollars for a deer lease on a fenced-up plot of land. According to a news broadcast on 1080 AM in Dallas, TX on May 28, 2002, even the Texas Cattleman's Association favors the establishment of wilderness areas to prevent developers from converting pasture land into urban sprawl housing subdivisions and shopping centers. Now, I'm not saying that private property ownership is a bad thing. Heck, I wish I could afford to buy a bunch of property myself! But I just thought I'd express my concern and frustration over the severe lack of land available for off-roading in a state where very little public land exists.



http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/wwwthre...ads/showflat.pl?

apparently I can't link directly to the bbs where i saw this. Go to the link above and click on dezert people and then on save the desert. this was posted by EQuin

[This message has been edited by Bluesky (edited 06-01-2002).]
DuneAddict
Blu will you form your own opinion for once. i want to know why you titled this topic "ohvrs a pain in the butt everywhere". Those are your words and i want to know why in your own words if you can handle that. im sick of reading your posts of other peoples words.
motoman
yea, i havent seen much words from you on this board.. only from other people. whats wrong blu, cant think of anything intelligent to say?
IceDiver
Thinking back to my earlier years, I seem to recall ANYONE ( Blue and his kind alike) that believed in taking away from someone(the people) to be controlled by a "select" group of people were Communists
fnmeyers
Motoman is right. Blu***** can't think for himself. Quote, Quote, Quote... and put a negative spin on it.

I bet Blu has never had his own article published in any Enviro journal. He is very uneducated. I bet he never graduated high school.

Let's ignore any post from Blu. Maybe he or she will go away.
Cookie
There is nothing that ****es me off more than when a new development is put next to something (airport, freeway, off road park) and then the new neighbors complain about it. They knew it was there before they moved in. Now they want it closed down because a golf course willl add value to there homes and be more peaceful. Pretty simple, this is all about money, nothing more.

Blu you are being a hypocrite again, I know you are in favor of off road parks rather than off roaders riding illegally, so what is your point???????
Buggyless
Blu, There is nothing more irritating than some newby that moves into the neighborhood and then tries to change it.
I moved to Ramona because I loved the country feel of it. As much as I hate the smell of the chicken ranches when I drive by them, I would never try to have them removed. They were here first. I moved in knowing they were here. Cleaning them would be nice, but I know I haven't the right to change things.
Take a lesson. You aren't in Dallas and you aren't in Glamis. Go where you are wanted, if there is such a place.
Kerin
OBSESSED
Today it this happened, this time as I was backing into a parking space at the bank, a little poindexter type with horn rimmed glasses driving an Electric Car (an EV-1).
Well this obvious pretty smart guy pulled into my spot while I stopped and looked for someone like him making a quick move.
So I just pulled up behind him and waited for him to get out of his EV…
As I sat there blocking his exit and the traffic isle, I was thinking of ways to let him know his level of rudeness, for 'stealing' my parking spot.
So I sit and wait for about 3-4 minutes as he finishes his cell phone call.
His back window stickers told his philosophy of life:
Save The Whales
Green Peace
Join the Sierra Club Protect our lands
The little fish with feet (Darwin & evolution?)
Animals have 'rights' too
PETA

As I was thinking of something to say, I just started to chuckle and, I couldn't stop laughing…
As he got out of his little plastic pathetic little car, I (still smiling from my laughter) said to him:
"Where did ya learn how to drive…" I paused for effect, "Disneyland?"

His face turned bright red his response:
"…Well, yes, I was the ride loader on Mr. Toads Wild Ride…"
His voice faded my joke finally hit him…

So as he walked away I yelled to him:
"Sierra green whale boy, care to join me for a Double-Double at In & Out next door? Love your car! Is that a dead cat under it's tire?"


Steve
fnmeyers
My friend owns 20 acres in Grand Junction, CO in farmin' country. They have owned the land FOREVER. His dad built him an awesome track in the back part of the land. They had no complaints from anybody. The track is at least five years old. Well, all of the farmers around their property started selling out there land to people to build custom homes.

Now all of the people with houses around their property got a petition going to get the track removed.. not just limitations on riding times....f'n removed because they say it is lowering their house prices....

Needless to say it doesn't look good for my buddy's track. He started riding that track on a 60...grew to an 80..now he races 125 Pro. It's a shame because the track has been there for so long.

I hate ignorat people......
Bluesky
quote
QUOTE
I hate ignorat people......



ROFLMAO
Buggyless
Blu, Only you could find that much humor in a typo. Simple minds find simple humor!
motoman
quote:
Originally posted by Bluesky:
quote:
I hate ignorat people......
ROFLMAO
isnt it "ROTFLMAO"? rolling on the floor laughing my ass off? right?
CHEFF
Maybe this will shed a little light on the subject. I happen to live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Lavon is a small town with nothing but land around it. Remember what we all do with the land that surrounds our town? Ride our bikes. So, A few home-owners move in with big-city ideas and Golf is their answer. Why? Because golfers have money. And if they can bring money to the area then they can open up a shop to sell their community services. Move to Lavon, a "Quiet Town" with small town life. Get away from the big city. What happens, a small town turns big. Just like the small town of Grapevine, which was mentioned in the article, also is the town I live in. It's no longer a small town. The city is built to the maximum. It's a traffic jam trying to get home.If you don't leave to work early enough, its 15 mins longer. The area of riding that they mentioned, is cut down to a minimal, that the smart riders don't go there anymore. Too dangerous. Who wants to ride where your going head on with another rider? On every turn? Not me. And the place they're talking about is called Marshalls Creek, used to be a great riding, training area for us motocross racers. 4-wheelers, not enough room. So, Lavon, a town similar to Grapevine, sees the money the city is making, yes we have 2 golf courses, and their eyes grow. "We can do it too." Eliminate the loud motorcycle guys and we're in. Have they mentioned the lake that surrounds Lavon? Lake Lavon is a big draw to Dallas folk. Another problem to the enviros. 2-stroke boats, jet-skis with alcohol drinking. The lake is a draw for now. The enviros will attack the lake activity as soon as the off-roaders are eliminated. Same thing they are doing to us Grapevine residents. It's almost impossible to get on our lake without harrassment from the law. Always checking for un-lawful activity. It's a pain for those of us who have always been law-abiding citizens, to go thru the same type of questioning. Makes you want to sell your toys. But you live on the lake for a reason. Boating, off-roading, and golfing. Yes, I indulge in all three. Also, they mentioned DRIVING a distance to hunt, ride and so on. Lavon is a distance. So is Glamis. We're all in favor of driving a distance, and when you live there, whats wrong with having it in your back yard? GREED has alot to say about enviros too. The more we can take away, we win. Has nothing to do with making it work for all of us. Living together as one. Money is the issue and clean air is not. Lets all walk and the world would be a better place. Pretty slow too. Peace
Fireballsocal
Chef: Where have you been hiding?
IceDiver
Have to agree with Chef…. Greed is what it is all about. Like it or not, the “real, true” environmentalist is not only against off roaders, but big business, and government too.

As for the rest, the term environmentalist are nothing more than a selfish, self centered group of people that exploit loop holes in government regulations and programs to obtain money using an environmental platform. Then once the dust settles, winds up with changes that just puts more money in the pocket of the few.

For the good of mankind…… Bull $$$$. For the good of a few (the few with money)
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