Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: BLM Responsible for OHV Damage
GlamisDunes.com > Sand Community Issues > Your Environmental Opinion
Spider
Looks like the BLM can be held responsible for not protecting areas from OHV damage.

Appeals Court Deals Blow to Off-Roaders
Saturday, August 31, 2002


BY GREG BURTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

The U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) can be compelled to protect wilderness study areas (WSAs) in southern Utah, the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled late Thursday.
The Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA) filed a federal lawsuit three years ago claiming the BLM was not properly managing off-highway vehicles (OHVs) in proposed study areas at Moquith Mountain, Parunuweap Canyon, Sids Mountain and Behind the Rocks.
Despite conceding that OHV use in those regions "has seriously impaired the wilderness values" and that SUWA had "presented significant evidence about the alleged impairment that is occurring in the WSAs due to [OHV] use," U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball dismissed SUWA's claims two years ago.
Kimball reasoned "that as long as [BLM] is taking some action" toward meeting its mandatory duties, it could not be compelled to take action under the National Environmental Policy Act.
SUWA appealed the decision to the Denver-based court, which reversed Kimball and remanded portions of the lawsuit to Utah. The case has been reassigned to newly appointed federal Judge Paul Cassell.
"This decision gives some of Utah's most significant landscapes a new lease on life from ever-encroaching off-road vehicle damage," SUWA attorney Steve Bloch said. "It's time to bring balance to how BLM manages public lands; peace and quiet is as important a public resource as oppor- tunities for recreation."
But SUWA's victory was not absolute. Cassell still must rule on the merits of SUWA's arguments regarding the impact of OHV use that environmentalists initially presented to Kimball.
In a dissenting opinion, one federal appeals judge argued that the "BLM simply is not required to achieve each and every goal of its aspirational land use plans or have that failure, however slight," be challenged under the Administrative Procedure Act. The majority of the three-judge appeals panel ordered Cassell "to determine whether the BLM has truly failed 'to take a hard look' at information suggesting that OHV use has substantially increased" since the disputed wilderness study areas were initially established.
Once the case returns to Utah, a number of OHV organizations, including the Idaho-based Blue Ribbon Coalition and Elite Motorcycle Tours, probably will argue that the BLM continues to adequately address OHV use.
In its attempt to convince Cassell otherwise, SUWA will be joined by the Wilderness Society, Sierra Club, Great Old Broads For Wilderness, the Utah Council of Trout Unlimited and other environmental groups.
"Now that the court has announced it will be looking over BLM's shoulder, we can only hope the agency will take its responsibility to protect magnificent public lands from off-road vehicle damage more seriously in the future," said Jim Angell, Earthjustice Legal Defense Fund attorney who argued SUWA's appeal in the Denver court.
JET
Amazingly, at glamis the wilderness study area north or 78 has had close to no incursions. Some, but so few as to be insignificant.
DocHolliday
The earthjustice league defense fund has the backing and the money to litigate. I will remember that and try to be kind to the BRC's legal defense fund this year.

BTW

-What do you call a lawyer with an IQ over 70?

-Judge
jhitesma
Not to mention that all the WSA's in the dunes (other than the closure north of 78) were alredy released from study and are no longer listed as WSA's.

Spider - how about posting something postive every now and then instead of one sided leftists articles about "evil OHV's". Why not use your position as moderator to help educate dune users about the plants, animals and issues in THE DUNES - instead of antoganizing with posts about "dangerous OHV's that need to be regulated" and this kind of thing.

It seems to me that you're abusing your position and not really helping the forum reach it's goal.
Spider
Jason,

When I posted on the clean up work the OHV groups are involved in, I had people swearing at me and sending me hate mail for being phony. When I deleted the four lettered words out of people's posts, I was attacked again and sent more hate mail. When I posted the article recently on motocross safety, I had people accusing me of stirring up trouble, and a campain was started to ban me from all other sections of the message board. I'll never understand that.

This article came up so I posted it. It actually has a good issue worth discussing. Who should be responsible for protecting areas? I'm sure many OHV groups do try to protect areas and do repair to areas, but no one takes the time to bring that issue up. Instead, too many people assume they're being attacked when what I've done is to post a news article that concerns OHVs.

If people would take some time to think about the issues in the articles rather than shooting off attacks at me, we might be able to have a discussion or two here.

And I've never heard of anyone accusing the Salt Lake Tribune of being leftist except for you. The articles I've posted have consistently come from mainstream newspapers. If you don't want to discuss what is in the mainstream press, then you are really trying to shut yourself off from what most people are thinking and learning about your recreation.
jhitesma
Spider, while this article may be from a more mainstream article the last few you've posted have been from the LA Times or NY Times both of which are extremely well known for being heavily biased.

Just look at the "safety" article you posted which claimed that OHV accident rates are climing and something has to be done about it - but completely ignored the facts as they presented them that the use of OHV's climbed even higher than the accident rates.

I wouldn't have a problem with the posting of these articles if you'd also do something to spark positive intelligent discussion about issues in the actual dunes - which is the point of this BBS after all.

Why not start threads explaining some of the various plants and animals that are native to the dune areas. The idea of this forum was to try and get more duners to "stop and smell the milkvetch" if you will.

There are quite a few of us who really do love and respect the dunes and want to learn more about the things that can be found out there - why not cultivate that instead of just posting articles with a negative bent?
Spider
Jason,

Again, I posted the articles because they deal with OHV and environmental issues and they are from the mainstream media. Your politics may allow you to see the NY Times and LA Times as leftist, but they also happen to be the most widely read newspapers in the U.S.. They are mainstream whether you like them or not.

You also ignored the part in the NYTimes article where OHV folks are coming up with their own solutions to the problems of injuries. The article could have been the beginning of a nice discussion on how people are working on their issue on their own. Instead you have decided to focus on something you consider negative in the article. The articles are not the problem.

You also called the Salt Lake Tribune leftist, but I'm guessing you are backing down from that one. True? Or is the Utah press filled with pinko-hippies.

Even though you seem to think I'm abusing my "power", I've allowed people to post a wide variety of views here even when their sources are slanted. You might think of ways to attract more people to your own forum instead of taking so much time to attack me and this forum.

If you are so interested in the animals and plants in the dunes, then please post something on them and stop complaining.
Got_Sand
oh great my first time in enviromental section and I see a arguement........Too funny
Poiks
For whatever my 2 cents are worth (probably about a penny): I don't have a problem with Spider or anyone else posting from the mainstream media, especially when doing so informationally, and with minimal editorial comment (as was the case with this BLM article). Heck--it would also be acceptable to post Sierra Club articles, as this would be informative to those of us who disagree with their agenda.

If an article is published, I think it's to our advantage to know about it. Shooting the messenger doesn't kill the message.
The Pastor
I wanna know who the Great Old Broads For Wilderness is..

Vor
Chummin
quote:
Originally posted by jkp:
Shooting the messenger doesn't kill the message.

So true and I agree!! But it gains so much satisfaction!!! [Big Grin] [Wink]
JET
quote:
Originally posted by Spider:
Jason,

When I posted on the clean up work the OHV groups are involved in, I had people swearing at me and sending me hate mail for being phony. When I deleted the four lettered words out of people's posts, I was attacked again and sent more hate mail. When I posted the article recently on motocross safety, I had people accusing me of stirring up trouble, and a campain was started to ban me from all other sections of the message board. I'll never understand that.

This article came up so I posted it. It actually has a good issue worth discussing. Who should be responsible for protecting areas? I'm sure many OHV groups do try to protect areas and do repair to areas, but no one takes the time to bring that issue up. Instead, too many people assume they're being attacked when what I've done is to post a news article that concerns OHVs.

If people would take some time to think about the issues in the articles rather than shooting off attacks at me, we might be able to have a discussion or two here.

And I've never heard of anyone accusing the Salt Lake Tribune of being leftist except for you. The articles I've posted have consistently come from mainstream newspapers. If you don't want to discuss what is in the mainstream press, then you are really trying to shut yourself off from what most people are thinking and learning about your recreation.

It seems that most mainstream newspapers are more to the left of center.

It isn't easy being a wild eyed leftist, is it? [Eek!]
dezfan1
[Angry Fire] If I want to see animals, I'll go to the zoo! If I want to see plants, I'll go to the nursery! I go to the dunes to ride! If I see an animal I'll give it a wide berth and try not to disturb it. But thats not why I'm at the dunes! I'm there to have a good time and relax! REMEMBER LIFE, LIBERTY and the pursuit of HAPPINESS! That's what it's all about! [Spin]

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Bluesky
quote:
If I want to see animals, I'll go to the zoo! If I want to see plants, I'll go to the nursery! I go to the dunes to ride! If I see an animal I'll give it a wide berth and try not to disturb it. But thats not why I'm at the dunes! I'm there to have a good time and relax!
thanks for your candor dezfan. I figured the values of riders were something like that and you have confirmed this. Do you mind if I quote you?
dezfan1
Feel free to quote me! I ment exactly what I said! I dont go to Glamis to see animals or plants! I go to ride! Whats the problem with that? But if your going to quote me, then do it! You left out part of the quote, you know the part you dont believe in LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS! Talk about candor!

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

[ 09-13-2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: dezfan1 ]
JET
quote:
I figured the values of riders were something like that
And the problem with those values would be....?

I don't see dezfan1 out supporting groups that push their way of thinking on other people under the threat of governmental force. We can't quite say the same about you, now, can we...
dezfan1
HU-RA! Good point JET! OK Bluboy, Wiggle your way out of that one! [Spin]

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

[ 09-13-2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: dezfan1 ]
Bluesky
quote:
And the problem with those values would be....?

I don't see dezfan1 out supporting groups that push their way of thinking on other people under the threat of governmental force. We can't quite say the same about you, now, can we...

I'm not pushing my way of thinking---you can eat, read, write, say what you want. When your exercize of your rights affects me and my rights we've got a problem.
dezfan1
quote:
I'm not pushing my way of thinking---you can eat, read, write, say what you want. When your exercize of your rights affects me and my rights we've got a problem.
So how is my riding at Glamis affecting your rights? You your self have said that you dont go to Glamis. Its my Green Sticker money that I pay for my OHV that pays for the managment of those dunes, It's public land and the last time I checked I was still a member of the public! The way I see it you are affecting my rights! It's you and poeple like you who are trying to stop me from doing what I love! I've never tryed to stop you from being a eco-nut! So why are your rights more important that mine? You cant have it both ways! Like you say, We have a problem. What is your solution to this problem? [Confused]

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Poiks
dezfan1, it's your existence that's a problem for Bluesky. But it's really all irrelevant. If all OHV use were abolished, Bluesky would move onto the next set of human beings that his twisted mind leads him to hate. People like Bluesky are NOT standing on principle--they're fighting imaginary external demons instead of facing up to the internal ones.

[ 09-14-2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: jkp ]
JET
quote:
When your exercize of your rights affects me and my rights we've got a problem.
And my riding in a LEGAL and DESIGNATED OHV area while it may "affect" your delicate senses, does not infringe upon your rights. So this affects you how? That you can't control 100 percent of what other people do? That must drive you crazy.
dezfan1
quote:
dezfan1, it's your existence that's a problem for Bluesky. But it's really all irrelevant. If all OHV use were abolished, Bluesky would move onto the next set of human beings that his twisted mind leads him to hate
Jkp, Your probable right! BS sounds like a miserable person, Its to bad he cant find a more possitive way to spend his time! What a twisted soul. I almost feel sorry for him! Anyways the countdown to riding season has begun! [Big Grin] Hope to see ya at the dunes! [Burnout]

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Poiks
Oh yeah, I'll be there! Sticking with the Banshee until the sand car is done late in the season. Still working on planning the first trip as dune season gets underway!
Bluesky
QUOTE
And my riding in a LEGAL and DESIGNATED OHV area while it may \"affect\" your delicate senses, does not infringe upon your rights. So this affects you how?


1. traffic on the 10 is made more dangerous from all the drunk yahoos pulling toyboxes behind their motorhomes


2. People get accustomed to shooting and riding drunk at the ISDRA and then go and try it all over the mountains, desert and beaches of So Cal, endangering me and others.

3. By threatenening rare plants and animals with extinction from your impacts on their habitat, you affect my world and its future.
The Oldtimer
for further enlightenment, please visit these websites..

www.theregoesanotherdrunkoverthebank.com

www.nowwhereisthenexttarget.org

www.omygodtheykilledeverything.blu

You all know he's right...just ask him! :roll2: :oh: :shock: rollsmile.gif :.(. 25rant.gif 25rant.gif 25rant.gif
RoostKing
QUOTE
1. traffic on the 10 is made more dangerous from all the drunk yahoos pulling toyboxes behind their motorhomes 


2. People get accustomed to shooting and riding drunk at the ISDRA and then go and try it all over the mountains, desert and beaches of So Cal, endangering me and others. 

3. By threatenening rare plants and animals with extinction from your impacts on their habitat, you affect my world and its future.


Blue, you have shown your values. May we quote you?? How dare you call EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD A DRUNK YAHOO> I think youd better NEVER show up at a gathering, you will get your A S S kicked. How can you, in good faith, paint everybody on this board with the same bruch. There are drunk drivers from all walks of life.

So Glamis is the FIRST place that EVERYBODY goes to to learn to drink and shoot? So EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has ever drank or shot a gun has been to Glamis first. YOUR AN IDIOT..

Your funny though, in a stupid piece of s h i t way...

Oh yea, they are called Toy haulers,not Toy boxes. Haulers Haul, boxes sit there. Stupid Mother eff*er

RoostKing...
Dunetamer
We all know our great country was (partially) founded on the premis of individual rights. Each of us enjoy those rights on a daily basis. I think we all agree that one's rights are no greater than another's rights. However, the rights of many outwiegh the rights of few (example, the right of free speech to yell "Fire" is outweighed by the right of safety by the theater patrons). Since the question of rights was raised, my question to BS is this; do plants and animals have rights? If so, to what extent and do they outweigh the rights of individuals as provided in our constitution and protected by the legislature? Also, if both plants and animals have rights, whose rights are greater than the other? And finally, since we (humans) have the ability to protect species, are we obligated to "save" or "protect" all species including viruses, germs, etc? If not, how do we distinguish species "worth" saving?

Your response is appreciated, I'm interested in your views; please don't refer me to a website.
Doorlord
QUOTE

1.  traffic on the 10 is made more dangerous from all the drunk yahoos pulling toyboxes behind their motorhomes


2.  People get accustomed to shooting and riding drunk at the ISDRA and then go and try it all over the mountains, desert and beaches of So Cal, endangering me and others.

3.  By threatenening rare plants and animals with extinction from your impacts on their habitat, you affect my world and its future.



And so it is written.
Bluesky
QUOTE
do plants and animals have rights?


no

QUOTE
since we (humans) have the ability to protect species, are we obligated to \"save\" or \"protect\" all species including viruses, germs, etc? If not, how do we distinguish species \"worth\" saving?


We should try to understand how our species interacts with the rest of our ecosystem and base our judgements on what will be in the best interests of humans.
Bansh88
And you honestly believe preserving the Milk Vetch is in the best interest of humans? Above our human desire to enjoy the sand?
Bansh88
By the way, I don't know if you saw a previous post by me refering to shooting in the dunes, but I have NEVER heard a gunshot in the ISDRA other than the few times I shot. But I guess you heard/saw shooting all those times you were out there.
Bluesky
QUOTE
And you honestly believe preserving the Milk Vetch is in the best interest of humans? Above our human desire to enjoy the sand?


The PMV is a distinct species of plant. We don't know much about this plant--how it can survive in the dunes with the extremes of temperature and the variation in rainfall.

I don't believe we should allow this plant to become extinct.
Bansh88
But one of the most popular recreation/pastime should become extinct? Human needs far outweigh the survival of the milk vetch. If it actually ever becomes extinct.
Bansh88
What about all this shooting, blue?!
Bluesky
QUOTE
Human needs far outweigh the survival of the milk vetch. If it actually ever becomes extinct.


riding the dunes is a human need?

We should permanently alter the health of our planet so's you can have a few afternoons of specialized fun?

that you can consider this as a possibility indicates mass insanity in our human species. mass insanity perhaps brought about by the hypnotic conditioning of the TV and other media. Mass insanity brought about by large corporations who train us to buy their products.

the same type of mass insanity that can be twisted to support the bombing, maiming and killing of human beings so we can have a secure source of gas to run our toys that lead to the extintion of important parts of our world.....
RoostKing
Bluesky, there are winners in life, and there are losers. Its not my fault they were born there. Its not my fault we got to bomb em to save em... Its my duty as a caring American. You would still like to see them under a dictatorship.. YOUR RACIST

RoostKing...
JET
have you read this article? http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/11/opinion/...&partner=GOOGLE
Bansh88
Blue, unless you live in a tree and wear leaves instead of clothes. Unless you are eating nothing but seeds and drinking stream water you are an F-ing hipocrit! One of the most basic human needs is pleasure. If my riding over the surface of sand, disrupts the life of a WEED, so be it.
But i'm sure the driving of YOUR automobile on a paved surface hasn't dirupted the lives of any organism. I'm sure ALL THE SCHOOLS you obviously attended didn't disrupt any creatures during their construction.
Bluesky
QUOTE
One of the most basic human needs is pleasure. If my riding over the surface of sand, disrupts the life of a WEED, so be it.


you call it a weed. It's an important part of the desert ecosystem. We are still learning about our world and how we can continue to thrive as a species.

I'm sure you do other things for pleasure besides riding in the dunes. Your pleaure should not come at the expense of the existence of part of nature.
dezfan1
Excuse me for butting in but, have you noticed how nice the weather has been??? :wink: :wink: :wink: And remember! JUST SAY NO! icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif


LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Bansh88
First off, WHAT ABOUT THE SHOOTING!
Please answer MY questions Blue. If my dune riding should be stopped, why shouldn't your morning commute be stopped?
JET
QUOTE
Excuse me for butting in but,  have you noticed how nice the weather has been??? :wink:  :wink:  :wink:     And remember!   JUST SAY NO! icon_biggrin.gif  :D  :D  


LIVE FREE OR DIE!


It is supposed to rain this weekend but, yeah, the weather has been nice.
dezfan1
Jet, I'm so glad you noticed! :wink: :wink: :wink:


LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Bansh88
You Homos! I've got blue against the wall.
dezfan1
Be careful bansh88, some times you get what you ask for! :wink: :dis: :shock:


LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Bansh88
I meant boot in his chest against a brick wall. Not hot and steamy against a shower wall like you want! :mrgreen:
JET
QUOTE
I meant boot in his chest against a brick wall.  Not hot and steamy against a shower wall like you want!  :mrgreen:



user posted image
dezfan1
QUOTE
I meant boot in his chest against a brick wall. Not hot and steamy against a shower wall like you want!



NOT IN A 1000 YEARS!!!!!!!!! You sick puppy you >:< :shock: :dis: :eww: :shocked: :roll2:



LIVE FREE OR DIE!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.