Bluesky
Sep 26 2002, 08:00 PM
RIVERSIDE PRESS-ENTERPRISE - Sept. 26, 2002
http://www.pe.com/breakingnews/local/PE_NE...es26.a1335.htmlRecreation area stays closed
IMPERIAL DUNES: Talks about saving plants stall reopening of thousands of
acres to off-roaders.
By JENNIFER BOWLES, THE PRESS-ENTERPRISE
quote:
Nearly 50,000 acres of sand dunes popular with Inland off-road enthusiasts
will remain closed when the desert recreation season begins on Halloween
weekend, federal officials said Wednesday.
Large sections of the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area were closed two
years ago to protect a rare plant. The U.S. Bureau of Land Management's
plan to reopen those areas has been stalled by negotiations over how to
keep off-road vehicles from pushing the plants closer to extinction, agency
officials said.
The off-roading community was dismayed by the delay. "To not be able to
ride in those dunes is very disappointing," said Vicki Warren of Corona, a
frequent visitor to the dunes.
At issue is the BLM's proposed management plan for the 160,000-acre dune
system, which stretches 40 miles in southeast California, just north of the
Mexican border.
Nearly one-third of the dunes were closed two years ago after
environmentalists sued the BLM, alleging the agency was failing to protect
imperiled species across the desert.
Environmentalists are happy to see the closures remain at least
temporarily, but they fear that politics is playing a role in the reopening
plan.
"The current approach from the Interior Department on the dunes is really
just another one of Bush's anti-environmental rollbacks," said Daniel
Patterson, desert ecologist with the Center for Biological Diversity, one
of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit.
"We have a fair deal in place, half the dunes for off-roading and the other
half for other forms of recreation and conservation, but the BLM doesn't
even consider that as an option in the current plan."
The BLM, however, must keep the dune areas closed until the Fish & Wildlife
Service approves the reopening.
The agency has indicated that such a move could jeopardize the existence of
the Peirson's milk-vetch, a member of the pea family that was listed as
threatened in 1998.
BLM officials and off-roaders feel differently and have said that surveys
funded by off-roaders have shown that the plant is plentiful in the dunes.
"We do not believe a jeopardy opinion is warranted in this case," Mike
Pool, BLM's California director, said in a letter dated Aug. 16 to his
counterpart at Fish & Wildlife.
Jane Hendron, a Fish & Wildlife spokeswoman, said the agency is continuing
to review the plan. She couldn't say when that would be done.
BLM officials also must review 10,000 comments submitted by the public on
their plan.
"We're hoping we'll be able to finish the plan by the end of the year, but
we'll just have to wait and see," said Jan Bedrosian, a BLM spokeswoman.
__________________________________________________
I noted the methodology and results of the study conducted by Olsen and Assoc. and I observed how their reputation and findings were dissed by the Environmentalist power elite.
It would have made so much more sense, saved more money and gone to the heart of the matter if ASA had gone to CBD to do the study of the PMV!???
If there truly are more PMV than is thought, the CBD's own scientists would have stated it and the question would have been resolved.
Now we're arguing about the credentials and reliability of the scientists doing the study when we should be focused on the outcome of the findings and deciding if the dunes can be reopened or not.
[ 09-26-2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
Bluesky
Sep 26 2002, 08:49 PM
Ya know you're right. the CBD scientists might have fudged a little because their real motive is to stop all fun and make greasers put down their vehicles and play violin instead!
so it really should have been two studies done simultaneously! Olsen and Assoc and CBD's hired guns! They could have shared info and findings, divied up some of the transects and made a report that reflected a true consensus of on-the -ground reality!
my .02
Rooster
Sep 27 2002, 05:09 AM
Why not use the north side of 78 as to bird watch and do thier dune hiking????? Leave the south side to the duners. I think that is a fair split. The thing is no matter who did the study, D.P. or the CBD wouldn't be happy if it were not in their favor. I get confussed sometime. If the issue is saving the planet they want their way. If it is about taking their space (no place to Hike) in the dunes, it is a matter of anything to get their way. I have been going to the dunes for 15 years and The only people I have seen hiking in the dunes (not the washes) are someone that has broken down and are looking for help.
I sure would like to see someone take a 60 to 70 pound back pack put it on and hike through the dunes, say from Olds to Gecko. That will never happen because it is too tuff.
Bluesky
Sep 27 2002, 05:56 AM
Someone is editing my posts without my permission. I did not put up the smiley as a message icon on this message. Who's doing this?
Also, on a previous post the word "conservationists" was changed to "recreationists"
Help, Slappy..
SailAway
Sep 27 2002, 06:57 AM
Egad! I totally forgot about Blue still hanging around here!
![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
Rooster, your comments are so on the money (and it really does boil down to money doesn't it).
You're right, the propaganda shifts according to what they seek but it all comes down to the same goal.
We need to start getting our version of the story out there better... maybe it's time to consider a PR firm!
Vicki
[ 09-27-2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: SailAway ]
Bluesky
Sep 27 2002, 08:48 AM
Rooster
It's not about hiking, it's about conservation of natural landscapes. We don't need to impact our public lands with machines that permanently damage them and threaten the survival of rare species.
Poiks
Sep 27 2002, 08:54 AM
quote:
It's not about hiking, it's about conservation of natural landscapes. We don't need to impact our public lands with machines that permanently damage them and threaten the survival of rare species.
Blu cuts and pastes from his quote book--how exciting for us.
In their propaganda piece on their alleged hike through the dunes, even the CBD's ministers of misinformation talked about how the dunes had "recovered" after being closed for a year. "Permanent damage"? Give me a break.
Bluesky
Sep 27 2002, 10:02 AM
EXTINCTION IS FOREVER
y3banshee
Sep 27 2002, 10:18 AM
so i hope you damn enviro's become extinct already so i dont have to listen to you cr@p any longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Permagrin
Sep 27 2002, 10:29 AM
I think Blu has a vested interest in propagating the Enviro fraud.
What exactly do you do for a Living?
Click here to find out why we are having extreem fires!This Concerns Me More! [ 09-27-2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: WFO WR500 ]
downhillin1
Sep 27 2002, 10:32 AM
trailmix taste tester
Rooster
Sep 27 2002, 10:45 AM
Blue, what rare species are you talking about. Off roaders?????? If I remember the way the dune system is, no matter if there is any people or machines on them they continue to change and move due to the wind and such.
You want to do something to save the planet, there is a good example that has been going on for a week now with the fires.
Just think of the little animals that have been displaced and loss of life. Not to mention the plants that are gone that the CBD seems so fradgle about. Do something for the good. Help the inviroment by not making so much B.S. that nothing can be done.
You can't take bulldozers and cut fire breaks that are so much needed in the forest and out lieing areas because some plant or bug or a animal may be disturbed.
When the Enviro's get real and make sense about their cause I will eat crow and jion the fight.
It always will stick with me how the enviro's stopped the fire fighters last year and SIX brave fire fighters lost their lives because of some little fish that later was proven not to even be present. Go figure.
The everio's speak with forked tonues. Your on Daniel Patterson was caught on a quad making tracks in the closed areas at Glamis so he could film the tracks for his gain. The kid on the video comming out of the closed area was filmed because a sign was put there for the filming to represent him in the closed area.
The smashed tortise that is in the peer film was taken from a photo that was taken on hwy 59 up in Mohavie. Where is the facts. You claim so much distruction but the film you present as your proof is fixed., eddited to meet your needs.
Do you think a weekend of machines in Glamis disturbs the sand in the dunes as much as a week end of hard winds like in April?????????
The big complaint by D.P. on the TV show 3 weeks ago and the lady hiking in the washes where complaining that BLM was not considering them for the dunes. Where are all these people that hike in the dunes on a regular bases that are not doing it for the camera. Where your proff. Let these hikers step up. Then I want them to hike the dunes to even prove it can be done.
GSR
Sep 27 2002, 04:41 PM
cheese
DocHolliday
Sep 27 2002, 05:25 PM
Nobody is stoping the CBD from doing their own study and publishing the results on the PMV. Instead the CBD chooses to litigate first as if the PMV is growing in a court room in San Francisco. I know what my own eyes tell me and after a good rain the PMV is doing quite well in the ISDRA thank you very much Mr Patterson. Of course it never has been about the plant with the CBD.
Copper
Sep 27 2002, 09:31 PM
Damn, I sure wish those dinosours were still around. What a much better world it would be.
DocHolliday
Sep 27 2002, 09:48 PM
dino's are unlikely but a Wolly Mammoth???
www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/08/21/clone.mammoth/
Race255
Sep 29 2002, 11:14 PM
Ok, perspiring minds want to know. PMV is a poisonous plant. Therefore it is not consumed by any animals. Just what is the significance(sp) of this "weed" and why this giant push to "save" this particular type of vegetation that grows as abundant (or more so) on the open side of the highway as the closed side??
dezfan1
Sep 29 2002, 03:57 PM
I've said all along, It isnt about the PMV or any other species for that matter! It's about POWER! The CBD and the other eco-front organizations will not be happy or content untill their agenda is implemented in it's entirety as seen in their own twisted view! If it was about the PMV the CBD would have commisioned there own study! Instead they choose to litigate their way to control and power through lies and propaganda!
![[Angry Fire]](graemlins/angryfire.gif)
quote:
I noted the methodology and results of the study conducted by Olsen and Assoc. and I observed how their reputation and findings were dissed by the Environmentalist power elite.
Of course the Enviromentalist power elite dissed Olsen and Assoc. Their findings proved that the lies and propaganda that those elitest are spewing are just that, lies and propaganda!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Bluesky
Sep 29 2002, 04:02 PM
quote:
It always will stick with me how the enviro's stopped the fire fighters last year and SIX brave fire fighters lost their lives because of some little fish that later was proven not to even be present.
http://www.off-road.com/land/thirtymile_fi...re_changes.html
read the report. there was no denial of water to fight the fire. the reason the firefighters died was because they didn't follow the fire fighter's rules. they were newbies that shouldn't have been sent in to that fire anyway.
That is typical of your misinformation. Of course if you want to deny the impacts of your recreation on EVERYBODY'S public lands, you might want to lie to yourself about other things as well.
quote:
PMV is a poisonous plant. Therefore it is not consumed by any animals
are you a scientist? is this the way you prove things to yourself? Is it poisonous in all doses? has there been any research to show that animals don't consume it as a remedy at times?
Just because it's poisonous doesn't mean it has no value. Here we see the rationalization of OHVers that see the environment only as something for them to ride on.
[ 09-29-2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
Race255
Sep 29 2002, 04:23 PM
Nice dance Blu....Now answer the question!
dezfan1
Sep 29 2002, 04:31 PM
quote:
are you a scientist? is this the way you prove things to yourself? Is it poisonous in all doses? has there been any research to show that animals don't consume it as a remedy at times?
Just because it's poisonous doesn't mean it has no value. Here we see the rationalization of OHVers that see the environment only as something for them to ride on
Are you a scientist Blu? is this the way you prove things to yourself? Were is your research that it is a remedy when consumed in small doses? Here we see the rationalization of eco-demigod's that see the enviroment only as something for them to worship! It is their God and is more important that humane life or the legal rights of mere humans!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Race255
Sep 29 2002, 04:36 PM
I don't remember saying it has no value......Hang on I'll scoll back and check. Nope I didn't say that. What places a higher value on the PMV than the crabgrass you pull from your lawn or garden??
Permagrin
Sep 29 2002, 04:54 PM
All Dodge and Doublespeak.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
DocHolliday
Sep 29 2002, 04:57 PM
You don't have to be a scientist to identify the PMV. Once I learned to recognize the PMV and where to typically find them it was easy to see that the plant is thriving in the ISDRA. Therefore, the CBD can dismiss the Olsen report as a hired gun all they want. I know what I saw!
Get on with it CBD, you don't have to wait for the ASA to ask to do a study. One would almost think they are afraid of what they might find????
dezfan1
Sep 29 2002, 05:17 PM
The CBD are definetly afraid of what they would find if they did their own study, It is much more effective to litigate their views than it is to prove them! All you need is a uniformed judge who is probaly a bleeding heart liberal who believes he or she can make the world in their veiw or a view they agree with a better place instead of the facts at hand making that decision!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
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