the closing of Glamis IS NOT to protect the milk vetch weed. The true fact is, enviro's do not want to have workable solutions. Studies as far back as the 1920's show that the milk vetch was present in the dunes system. More recent studies, (early 1990's) show some loss of growth. OK. Where were these studies conducted? On the main artery road into Olds? The Milk Vetch grows primarily in the Algadones dunes. WRONG... the plant grows on the West side of the Salton Sea, and in the Mexican Desert areas as well. The only link is that they grow in sand, or, unique soil conditions. The Enviro groups say that this loss of habitat is directly linked to OHV usage. WRONG. This is just an assumption of loss. Weather patterns show direct relationships to the growth and loss of growth that effect this plant. Sure, the main "roads" which 85% of ISDRA visitors seem to stay on are bare of growth. This is a good thing. It is, in effect, a self governed highway system. The Fish and Wildlife fail to point out one thing. 90 years of studies show 1 conclusive fact. The OHV areas have more growth of the PMV than the nature preserve. Now that is strange???? OHV usage is threatening the PMV, yet, the plant thrives primarily in the OHV usage area!!!!! AN AREA THAT UNTIL RECENTLY WAS NEVER RESTRICTED.
Since bonehead Blue will say something stupid, I should address that person.
Blue, you DID NOT serve this Country to protect its FREEDOM. You did not DIE fighting for freedom. You have not done shiet, so shut your pie hole maggot.....
Maybe you can visit some day. I can show you the Dad who was shot in Vietnam. His son that was hurt in Kuwait. His Grandson that fought in Afghanistan. Ask them about freinds killed. Ask them what they fought for. FREEDOM.
All you sons of bietchs that think you got the right to take everyones freedoms away. Your asses should go to the front lines when we invade Iraq. Maybe then youll come home and have a renewed sense of what this flag represents. Now Blue, I am for land MANAGEMENT. Let people do their thing, but in a respectable fashion.
By the way Blue, you drive a Nissan, as you say, an enviro freindly vehicle?
Guess if I be on a moped, you are one polluting SOB....its all perspective, isnt it????
I gotta laugh.......
Full Version: Endangered? What a joke....
I agree with you in that I believe the PMV was used by the CBD to achieve their desired results. If the PMV never existed, it would've been the Sand Food, some lizard--heck, I've seen environmentalist propaganda that claims the Big Horn sheep exists in the ISDRA!
quote:Imagine that, OHV's are good for the environment!
OHV usage is threatening the PMV, yet, the plant thrives primarily in the OHV usage area!!!!!
That should but a twist in Blu's panties!
![[Spin]](graemlins/spin2.gif)
But truthfully, PMV is just a tool the eco's are wielding to gain control of our public lands and that is what it's really all about!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
quote:[img]http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=282791[/img]
PMV is just a tool the eco's are wielding to gain control of our public lands and that is what it's really all about!
maybe people are resisting this?
"The Rib Cage" I believe at 395 and Phelan road. At one time a legal riding area, the current residents (All moved in after those trails you see) call the cops to run off the off roaders because they don't like the noise. Funny how the atv'ers were there first but because the home owner found cheap land, they think they are entitled to kick people off the riding area. I believe the area is still a legal are to ride on (Public land) as there are no signs telling people it's private property. The riders are kicked off because the noise is a hassle to near by home owners. That is an area I have ridden on personally and is a popular destination for high desert riders and San Bernardino dwellers as well.
quote:Resisting what? we've been over this time and time again! The photo shows what? Some trails? Once again, where is the damage? Cosmetic damage? Maybe, it depends on your point of view.
maybe people are resisting this?
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
C'mon, dez--you know how annoying those dune trails can be to the locals.
Ya know from that pic those look like the same trails made to accsess the a beach. But one is thousands of people walking as opposed to hundreds of OHV's. Ones in the desert and ones at the coast. Either way the point I'm trying to make is that HUMANS leave trails, OHV's or not.
Ben is that the place North of the truck stop on 395? Theres houses around there? If its the place I'm thinking of, the simple expansion of the road and cement barriers screwed up the land in a more permanate way than OHV's ever could.
Another thing about that area... Isn't it also a wash basin? Why do people always want to save the wash basins?![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Ben is that the place North of the truck stop on 395? Theres houses around there? If its the place I'm thinking of, the simple expansion of the road and cement barriers screwed up the land in a more permanate way than OHV's ever could.
Another thing about that area... Isn't it also a wash basin? Why do people always want to save the wash basins?
Just for comparison, which trail photo do you like better, Blue Sky's or mine?
(photo not Riverside, although I could probably find uglier scenery there)
Home sales up 12.5 percent in Riverside County last month
WYATT HAUPT
Staff Writer North County Times
Consumers snapped up more than 4,100 homes in Riverside County last month, in turn propelling sales 12.5 percent higher than the same period last year as people continued to turn inland in their quest for a place to live, an industry report showed Thursday. By comparison, homes sales in bordering San Bernardino County rose to 3,266 in September, up 6.4 percent, compared with 3,069 in September 2001. The median sales price in San Bernardino County climbed 14.3 percent to $168,000 from $147,000 in the same period, DataQuick reported.
John Husing, director of Economics and Politics Inc. in Highland, said housing prices won't stabilize until more homes are built or people are priced out of the market. But with homes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties still selling well below levels of surrounding counties, people will continue to buy in the Inland Empire.
"Whoever would have thought that people would live in the desert and commute to work," Husing said.
______________________________________________________________
Nice quote from Mr. Husing. Yes, who would have thought?
You know the area in the article, up close to the Coachella Valley? The same valley that the City politicians what to plan? "Right here in River (side) City!" as Robert Preston would say.
I bet my trail would not recover to a natural state nearly as fast as Blue Sky's. Let's not even start comparing noise!
(photo not Riverside, although I could probably find uglier scenery there)
Home sales up 12.5 percent in Riverside County last month
WYATT HAUPT
Staff Writer North County Times
Consumers snapped up more than 4,100 homes in Riverside County last month, in turn propelling sales 12.5 percent higher than the same period last year as people continued to turn inland in their quest for a place to live, an industry report showed Thursday. By comparison, homes sales in bordering San Bernardino County rose to 3,266 in September, up 6.4 percent, compared with 3,069 in September 2001. The median sales price in San Bernardino County climbed 14.3 percent to $168,000 from $147,000 in the same period, DataQuick reported.
John Husing, director of Economics and Politics Inc. in Highland, said housing prices won't stabilize until more homes are built or people are priced out of the market. But with homes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties still selling well below levels of surrounding counties, people will continue to buy in the Inland Empire.
"Whoever would have thought that people would live in the desert and commute to work," Husing said.
______________________________________________________________
Nice quote from Mr. Husing. Yes, who would have thought?
You know the area in the article, up close to the Coachella Valley? The same valley that the City politicians what to plan? "Right here in River (side) City!" as Robert Preston would say.
I bet my trail would not recover to a natural state nearly as fast as Blue Sky's. Let's not even start comparing noise!
quote:Blu, you effing idiot, shut the hell up already! During a discussion of the PMV, you post a picture of a place that does not have PMV... at all! And for that matter, the PMV is doing just fine at the ISDRA. Have you read the scientific studies on the PMV? Do you know what ISDRA stands for? Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area!!!!!!!! You effing idiot! Recreation! Not conservation! There is no plant or animal at the ISDRA that does not have adequate habitat in the wilderness area. Prove me wrong dumb ass. I dare you!
Originally posted by Bluesky:
quote:[img]http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=282791[/img]
PMV is just a tool the eco's are wielding to gain control of our public lands and that is what it's really all about!
maybe people are resisting this?
quote:a legal riding area? can you prove this? what was it called? was it BLM? San Bern. County? A private park?
"The Rib Cage" I believe at 395 and Phelan road. At one time a legal riding area,
quote:what's that got to do with it? If a bunch of kids start illegally riding in an area, then you can't develop there? I never heard that rule.
the current residents (All moved in after those trails you see)
quote:I'm sure they love the view too and the chance that a dirt bike might come flying though their roof
call the cops to run off the off roaders because they don't like the noise.
quote:funny how because some people get away with breaking a law for some time, they think they have a right to keep doing it.
Funny how the atv'ers were there first but because the home owner found cheap land, they think they are entitled to kick people off the riding area.
quote:according to my Desert Access Guide it's private land--not a legal riding area. The lack of signs could be because there's probably 200 landowners who each have a 5 acre parcel and maybe they've never even surveyed the area to know which is their particular lot in order to sign or fence it.
I believe the area is still a legal are to ride on (Public land) as there are no signs telling people it's private property.
quote:in addition to being a safety hazard to traffic on nearby hwy 395 and Phelan rd/Main St.
The riders are kicked off because the noise is a hassle to near by home owners.
quote:...even though it's only minutes away from LEGAL riding areas at El Mirage and Stoddard Valley and half an hour from 100,000 acres open for riding at Johnson Valley. There's also legal trails down the cajon pass from this spot as well as a San Bernardino County riding park near Glen Helen
That is an area I have ridden on personally and is a popular destination for high desert riders and San Bernardino dwellers as well.
quote:Maybe it's private land AND a legal riding area.
according to my Desert Access Guide it's private land--not a legal riding area.
Funny, the only vehicle I see in the picture is what looks to be an old Nissan pickup.
Do we care about care about the environment? YES! Do we practice common sense when riding/driving our toys?? I would have to say the majority of us do. There are a few mindless idiots that think they can do whatever they want and give the rest of us a bad name.
But they're not too much unlike the people who desrtoy property and protest in violence in the name of conservation. Are ALL conservationists like that? NO. Do they give your groups a bad name? YES. Blue you're working on the "One Bad Apple DOES Spoil the Whole Bunch" theory and you need to sell that someplace else because we KNOW the truth. WE don't like the lawless idiots any more than you do but we have to deal with them too. The difference is you only see what this very small part of our culture (and it IS a culture) has done through propaganda pictures and biased news articles printed by those who want the dunes closed. WE have to see these classless, mindless swine in action, destroying the image of the vast majority of us who do things the right way.
I started this reply to bash you, Bluesky, and remind you that no one want's to hear your opinion, but I thought I'd try to educate you in the fact that we are not all bad people and it's merely a high profile few that are ruining the image of the rest of us.
When was the last time you posted something on this, or any other board, about an OHVer or OHV group doing something right or positive?? If you perceive us all as this "merry band of idiotic destructive people" then the minority of hooligans in our community have already won!
[ 10-20-2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Race255 ]
quote:Doesn't your "Desert access guide" tell you if it was/is a legal riding area? You spout your crap and then want US to prove your point for you. Fat chance Moron. Do some research and make YOUR OWN points. You come here and spew your unsubstantiated mindless "copy and paste" dribble about areas that none of us on this board use. Not that we don't care about the issues in other places but at least stick to the topics. I find it rather disrespectful that you would change the discussion in someone's post to something totally irrelevant just to be able to pat yourself on the back for posting something.
a legal riding area? can you prove this? what was it called? was it BLM? San Bern. County? A private park?
Do we care about care about the environment? YES! Do we practice common sense when riding/driving our toys?? I would have to say the majority of us do. There are a few mindless idiots that think they can do whatever they want and give the rest of us a bad name.
But they're not too much unlike the people who desrtoy property and protest in violence in the name of conservation. Are ALL conservationists like that? NO. Do they give your groups a bad name? YES. Blue you're working on the "One Bad Apple DOES Spoil the Whole Bunch" theory and you need to sell that someplace else because we KNOW the truth. WE don't like the lawless idiots any more than you do but we have to deal with them too. The difference is you only see what this very small part of our culture (and it IS a culture) has done through propaganda pictures and biased news articles printed by those who want the dunes closed. WE have to see these classless, mindless swine in action, destroying the image of the vast majority of us who do things the right way.
I started this reply to bash you, Bluesky, and remind you that no one want's to hear your opinion, but I thought I'd try to educate you in the fact that we are not all bad people and it's merely a high profile few that are ruining the image of the rest of us.
When was the last time you posted something on this, or any other board, about an OHVer or OHV group doing something right or positive?? If you perceive us all as this "merry band of idiotic destructive people" then the minority of hooligans in our community have already won!
[ 10-20-2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Race255 ]
doah!!!! Blueskie, lets say it is 5 acre parcels of private property. You know those folks bought them parcels on some home of turning a profit when developing comes along. (probably one of them 90 presentation deals) Thats why its legal to ride there.... its just some crappy land that nobody cares about. But wait, off in the horizon, its some eco-nazi bound on taking away that land and the fun people have using it. Talk to ALL the people who have LOST EVERYTHING thanks to eco/enviro's. And you say your doing "the masses" work/will. What a bunch of garbage....screw everyone else for your own reasons. Bluesky, are you an "Executive" in some soon to be bankrupt company????? HAH-HAH-HAH.....you wanna see pretty, go to Hawaii you moron...
dont take pictures of flood channels that are only there to preserve peoples homes, not the land....
dont take pictures of flood channels that are only there to preserve peoples homes, not the land....
quote:It tells me that it is not now a legal riding area. Since Fireball thought it might be legal I was asking him more details about the story.
Doesn't your "Desert access guide" tell you if it was/is a legal riding area?
quote:obviously some on this board use this area.
You come here and spew your unsubstantiated mindless "copy and paste" dribble about areas that none of us on this board use.
quote:the part I was reacting to was why people would resist OHV rec. It's not about controlling the land or people's lives. It's about preventing another disaster like "the ribcage".
I find it rather disrespectful that you would change the discussion in someone's post to something totally irrelevant just to be able to pat yourself on the back for posting something.
quote:I find it odd then, that when I post pics of "user made" off-road areas that no one objects to them.
Do we care about the environment? YES!
quote:especially since we're talking about the elite of off-roaders who have a computer and are willing to talk about the environment. yet no one here will acknowledge the illegal damage in places like the ribcage. Imagine what your normal run-of -the-mill off-roader thinks?
I thought I'd try to educate you in the fact that we are not all bad people and it's merely a high profile few that are ruining the image of the rest of us.
quote:
.. its just some crappy land that nobody cares about.
Please Dont Feed The Troll!
[ 10-20-2002, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: WFO WR500 ]
[ 10-20-2002, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: WFO WR500 ]
I don't know about being the "elite" of the off roaders. but I'm sure most people on this board are law abiding and at least fairly conservation minded. I've never seen anyone post anything along the lines of " I can't believe how big a mess we left in the desert last weekend. Dude it was AWESOME" or "Woah Dude, I was doing donuts in the closed area. I'm the coolest person I know" If they did everyone would be all over them like white on rice on a paper plate in a snow storm.
Just assume you're on your way to the dunes with your quads and buggy. Now would leave your trash all over the place? I'm fairly sure not. When was the laast time you saw the cat having a picnic in his litter box??
And would you ride in the closed areas so the "Nazis" could use it against you? Again, probably not.
And neither do most of us on this board. Sure there's one here or there, but as a whole WE are not your problem.Perhaps if you went about your crusade in another fashion you might be a bit better received.
Just assume you're on your way to the dunes with your quads and buggy. Now would leave your trash all over the place? I'm fairly sure not. When was the laast time you saw the cat having a picnic in his litter box??
And would you ride in the closed areas so the "Nazis" could use it against you? Again, probably not.
And neither do most of us on this board. Sure there's one here or there, but as a whole WE are not your problem.Perhaps if you went about your crusade in another fashion you might be a bit better received.
its just some crappy land...yep, that be my statement..... What do you call that area? Sensitive land? Hah-hah. It is nothing more then crappy land...a storm drain run off area to protect the developed areas. Actually, its more like a trash collection area for all the cars that go by. What do you wanna protect there Blue? You make no sense...
show me a forest with big trees and a riding path that has been ILLEGALLY cut through the center of that path. Then, you might get me ticked too!!!!
Boy, with your narrow minded nimbwit thinking, the west would have never been settled!!! Lets kill off the human race to protect the land...that way we could save it for future generations, eh Blue?
You are the most anti-human promoter I know....and you wonder why humans don't like/agree with you.
"I fart in your general direction"......har-har-har....
show me a forest with big trees and a riding path that has been ILLEGALLY cut through the center of that path. Then, you might get me ticked too!!!!
Boy, with your narrow minded nimbwit thinking, the west would have never been settled!!! Lets kill off the human race to protect the land...that way we could save it for future generations, eh Blue?
You are the most anti-human promoter I know....and you wonder why humans don't like/agree with you.
"I fart in your general direction"......har-har-har....
We have to protect the land...
So it will be open for development in the future!
Eff it all. Given enough time I'm sure Bluesky can come up with hundreds, even thousands of similar pictures... Guess what, I can do the same. I can come up with pictures and articles of how "Environmentalism" has destroyed areas and have left landowners pennyless and without recourse. How so called "Enviromentalists" have blown up developments in Arizona, and have killed lumberjacks with spiked trees. Stories of how the endangered Desert Tortise, which got vast streches of desert closed to the public ended up dieing off due to some desiese because there were no humans there to see the devistation.
It works both ways.
As I am certain you know, the picture you show is physically impossible at the ISDRA. Your gripe is with ANY off-roader. Someone probably woke you up one morning by racing by on their quad so now you are taking it out on the world. You are small minded and completely unwilling to see any side but your own. This board and others have tried, time and time again to see your side but still you spew drivel. Your opinions are worthless.
Vor
So it will be open for development in the future!
Eff it all. Given enough time I'm sure Bluesky can come up with hundreds, even thousands of similar pictures... Guess what, I can do the same. I can come up with pictures and articles of how "Environmentalism" has destroyed areas and have left landowners pennyless and without recourse. How so called "Enviromentalists" have blown up developments in Arizona, and have killed lumberjacks with spiked trees. Stories of how the endangered Desert Tortise, which got vast streches of desert closed to the public ended up dieing off due to some desiese because there were no humans there to see the devistation.
It works both ways.
As I am certain you know, the picture you show is physically impossible at the ISDRA. Your gripe is with ANY off-roader. Someone probably woke you up one morning by racing by on their quad so now you are taking it out on the world. You are small minded and completely unwilling to see any side but your own. This board and others have tried, time and time again to see your side but still you spew drivel. Your opinions are worthless.
Vor
Good point VOR....that is why Bluesky must be ignored!!!!
No more will we feed his need to argue endleesly with normal, open minded, fun lovin folks like ourselves!!!!!
END THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!
BLUESKY IS NOW INVISIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
No more will we feed his need to argue endleesly with normal, open minded, fun lovin folks like ourselves!!!!!
END THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!
BLUESKY IS NOW INVISIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
the part I was reacting to was why people would resist OHV rec. It's not about controlling the land or people's lives. It's about preventing another disaster like "the ribcage
quote:
I find it odd then, that when I post pics of "user made" off-road areas that no one objects to them.
quote:No, It's about control! The reason no one "objects" to them is because there is nothing there but a hill with a few trails on it! NO ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER IN SITE! And as an "ELITE" off-roader I find it offensive that you can call the rib-cage a disaster in the first place! If the riding were to stop there tomorrow, within a few years you would never know it was a riding spot! COSMETIC DAMAGE AT BEST!
especially since we're talking about the elite of off-roaders who have a computer and are willing to talk about the environment. yet no one here will acknowledge the illegal damage in places like the ribcage. Imagine what your normal run-of -the-mill off-roader thinks?
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Protecting the land for future generations. If future generations can't use the land either, what is the point of saving it for them? You seem to miss the whole view of the desert blue. The perfect part about off roading in the sand is that even after a weekend of thousands of off roads, it only takes a few minutes of good wind, and you would never even know they were there. I understand your ignorance on this, since you yourself have never been to the dunes to see this happen, but ask anyone of the people on this board and they will tell you the same thing. You want minimal effect on the enviroment? This is it at its best.
quote:[img]http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=282791[/img]
Originally posted by Bluesky:
[QB][QUOTE]
Wow! Looks like a cool place to ride. I'll have to go find it.
quote:I think that is the philosophy of OHVers. The problem is it's not YOUR land and it's not a legal riding area. So what right do you have to make sites like this?
its just some crappy land...yep, that be my statement..... What do you call that area? Sensitive land? Hah-hah. It is nothing more then crappy land...a storm drain run off area to protect the developed areas. Actually, its more like a trash collection area for all the cars that go by. What do you wanna protect there Blue?
Please don't feed the troll.
Bluesky: The Professional Activist.
Working for the the Eviro Whackos Gathering Data.
Please do not feed the troll
Working for the the Eviro Whackos Gathering Data.
Please do not feed the troll
Just found out that my cousin owns that land. Going to go there next week and tear it up ![[Roll]](graemlins/rollsmile.gif)
CR500COP Can I roll too? I haven't ridden dirt in a while. ![[Burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
That'l be nice
That'l be nice
You bet. And Blu doesn't own it. My cousin does and he likes for a lot of fast bike riders to go out there and tear the place up. ![[Vader]](graemlins/vader.gif)
quote:It's not your land either, So BUT OUT! If it was yours, then I could see your point! If it belongs to someone else and they have not posted it! Then what business is it to you! If it's public land then it OPEN to the PUBLIC! If it's restricted land then it needs to be posted! END OF SUBJECT BLU!
I think that is the philosophy of OHVers. The problem is it's not YOUR land and it's not a legal riding area. So what right do you have to make sites like this?
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
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