Blue, are you also known as Barefoot Bobbie?

[ 12-19-2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: ocean1 ]

Yup Blu. There's so many buildings and artifacts with vandalism on them in the dunes.

Yeah Boardmanville they tagged that place with hundreds of dollar bills.

My 400EX is a lot louder than my Banshee. But the green lemmings have learned that "2-stroke" is a bad word, so they focus on that.

Once again our friend is breaking his promise not to post here anymore and in doing so proving he's never been in the dunes.

On flat land or a drylake bed yeah you can hear a 2stroke for 3 miles...probably even further.

In the dunes the sand absorbs so much you can't hear them less than a mile away. I camp right off the sandhighway to olds and as soon as a bike is out of eyesight you can barely hear it and a few seconds later it's back to just the sound of the wind.

Funny how their arguments change too isn't it.

"The dunes are unsafe for hikers because you could get hit by a motorcycle while hiking, there's no way to avoid them."

Vs.

"You can hear those damn bikes from 3 miles away!"

Once again they want to have it both ways.

mxgirl

though this board is named glamisdunes.com, the issues go further than just GLamis dunes.

this particular board is about the environment and we discuss all aspects of the environment as it is affected by and affects humans.

this particular thread originally referred to the legitimacy of vehicles in natural areas and their effects on them.

The issues are here to address and discuss, not to deflect or dismiss--the issues of impacts of motorized rec are not going away!

many who post here also ride at other locales besides Glamis. Do you?

PS I have been to ISDRA

Blu,

One I don't understand why you would be interested in entering this site if you are so against OHV use in the dunes. The majority of the people that enter this site are activists in the sport and the majority of them participate in any clean-up that are scheduled. Oh and for a side note...I don't remember hearing your name in participating for the clean-ups.

It really bothers me when somebody has the audacity to come into this website and start bashing on us and what we do in the dunes. Your points are very unclear and very unrealistic. I have for one have been going to the dunes for many years and I love it, and I will do anything in my power to participate to keep our dunes open and clean!! You should really keep your opinions to yourself because they are really of no use in this well founded website.

Best Regards,
Cari...one who really cares about the dunes!

[ 12-19-2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: mxchick23 ]

Hmm I guess hes to damn scared to answer my questions.Ok so cars polute so maybe we should ban all cars,They cut down trees for paper and trees make oxygen which we breath,They take all the cotten off the plants which make our clothes so i guess we cant wear anything then,My point is it dosent matter what it is they are always gonna find an excuse to ban somthing maybe we should all live like the people in africa we can hunt our food smash our rice in wooden pots and wear clothes from animal fur in the river thats infested with crocs.You poeple have a f-up way of living.Do u have electricity or do u have laterns?u have an electric vechile so it does not pollute?bs u make me sick

Lets be honest here folks--Blu isn't on these forums trying to make friends or win over converts. Blu has some kind of obsession with OHV users, apparently due to incidents that occurred with his/her property. Blu also seems to like the fact that not everybody here is a spelling and grammar expert--probably makes Blu feel like a relative intellectual.

There's a curious phenomenon that comes along with the anonymity of the Internet and chat rooms: finally wimps have a place to feel powerful. I'd be willing to wager that, in person, Blu is not nearly so bold as he/she is with cyberspace to hide behind.

Blu has a single minded mentality
on a single issue.
It impacts him directly and
it is in his best interest to see to it.

LOL--Mxchick has a point. A good point.

I observe OHV tracks all the time. From my car as I drive on the freeways and on foot as I hike in the desert, mountains and beaches of the Southwest.

My understanding is that OHV rec is limited to signed, existing trails or to areas inside OHV OPEN areas.

I have posted several photos of spots I have observed outside of OPEN areas(seen here under "censoring greenie posts).

the readers on this board have unanimously defended the riders who have made and continue to use these rogue off-road areas.

My conclusion about the readers who have posted here is that they don't appreciate the significance of their actions when they ride their vehicles in nature.

In my small way I try to raise awareness of the impacts of motorized rec on our earth.

Blue your biggest problem is your like danny boy. You screw the truth to fit your jollies. When you are caught in a fat lie you defend by questions insyead of answers. I don't deny rideing in the desert at Elmerage, I don't deny riding in Glamis. I don't have to flood a answer with questions to hide the truth. Just like your invoro nut bud dannyboy. You can't and never ever will be able to stop off roading any where. You should put your energy into something useful. Fight for abused children or something that is really important.
Now that the Milk weed lies are not going to work it is now a bug that When they swarm my light at night I get out the bug zapper and listen to them fry and pop. Why is it that if things are so bad that they have to be defended with lies and turning all these lies to the eviro nuts way of thinking?????????
If you and the rest of the eviro nuts were for real in your crusade to stop the LEGAL riding you would use the truth and not always use the lying tactics that all of you use so well.
When there is a real problem NO one will ever beleave your kind because of the lying and false info they all spew out like your photo's.
I told you about the land in Calamasa and you said I was talking about some where else and then come back with all those stuip questions of which most is none of your buisness.
At least I am man enough and beleave in my rights to ride on LEGAL riding areas , I don't have to hide behind other names or a computer screen. I'm not affraid for people to know me. My name is on the side my sand rail. Any time any where I'll disuss an issue with anyone. I would even stoop low enough to talk with you in person , maybe. I can't stand lies so it probly would not last long.
Oh , by the way, what are you and your kind going to try to claim going extinct to stop the NEW LEGAL RIDING PARK at Elmarage that the BLM is putting in???????????? See how many questions you come up with now.

Next Blu is gonna tell us that hiking doesn't cause damage. Look at the Pacific Crest Trail. Thats a trail thats 2,650 and connects Mexico and Canada. 2,650 miles of damage caused by hikers. Ban them!

I don't mean to burst your bubble blu, but it seems to be that off roading is more popular now than it ever has been before. I predict that it will continue to grow, and that government will see the demand there is for more off road parks, and more land will be set aside as OHV parks for us to play in.

I don't know why I even bother other than the fact that you are so predictable.
(1) I would perfer to pay higher taxes on my ORV's than to waste my money on higher taxes that your kind cost us in your lying law suites that cost tax payers millions of dollars per year.
(2) Your comment on the tracks on public land or private land (is not permissible activity) you can't look at tracks in the desert and (you) know if it is private land or public land. If a person has permision it is Leagl. Just because you don't like it , don't make it not legal.
(3) I don't think a ORV park would be quite as dangerous to peoples health as your sugestions.When they put the nucular waste dump in , you move right next door so you can make sure no bugs or weeds are damaged.
(4) Yes I read that about the land. Well what are you and dannies enviro nuts waiting for ? There is an issue you is worth while to fight for. Help make sure they get enough money for thier land and have free passes to ride in the park for life.
(5) Your statement why the gov't provide off-road parks, when they can't do the job of keeping people out of non-designated areas.
Well to answer your question. If your eviro nut kind would leave the riding areas along and stop trying to close all our riding areas, they would have more people and time do do their jobs. They also for your next question, if they would not have to waste all the money that they do because of you, dannies nuts of enviro nuts cause to be waisted on your false claims and lying to get lands closed. They would be able to handle their jobs and have the monies to do it better.
(6) No I don't think limiting OHV"S in Glamis will help the bug to make a comback. For one reason I got a new bug zapper whitch makes two.
The main reason it want help , is because there is no shortege of this beetle. Prove it, show us the proof. Anyone can look at something they haven't seen because thier not there to see it and claim it is declining.
(7) I give you the amount of land that was in your photo. There is a boundry and yes there are posted signs all around the property to keep your kind out (the eviro nuts). I will not ever give you his name so you can spread it all over and add your yarns to it.
You should learn to answer a question before you ask one. Of corse everyone knows that you don't have the guts or knowlege to answer a direct question.
Oh , by the way . Sence you eviro nuts are so ready for a fight , why don't you all go to Irac and send our good people home. Take their place and you got something to fight for.

How about someone posting a photo of the forest areas recently destroyed my fire.

ENIVIRMENTALISTS did a GREAT to help preserve the beauty of the forests.

[ 12-20-2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: ocean1 ]

Here's a couple! Lets all thank the environmentalist for taking care of our forests.

WHAT GOOD is a study froom 1973 to 1979 ?
What is the current condion ?
Your info is older than you. Show me the proof. Just because you have something on a list don't make it endangered. Do you say well it might be one day endangered , so you list it just in case?????

Domestic terrorist acts by extreme environmentalists and animal rights groups have increased since Sept. 11, 2001, reports Mother (Jones magazine. Animal and Earth Liberation Fronts, for example, took credit for 137 "direct actions" in 2001, including arson, for $17 million in damage. The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, which tracks the groups, will introduce model legislation in every state to make eco-terror a separate, recognizable crime.
Sportsmen know all too well the power and dangers of extreme animal rights groups, said Alliance vice president Rick Story, who hopes the legislation will alert the public to the danger.)
This is one of many if you would bother to look them up.
Where is the dumping areas you are refering too???
Yes I will help all I can to get the riding park put in place.
If the eviro nuts would leave the riding areas alone there would be no problem.
You claim you want to hike the dunes ? Go to the north side of 78.
If you where trying to save something that was important I would help in your cause. I just can't see a use for a pest bug or weed that is worth the moneis your kind cost to try to save.
Further more the endangered act was not put in place or meant to save bugs and stuff of no value or to have your kind wasting tax monies on.
Maybe you can start a campain to rid the world of bug zappers.
I thought you said there was a NO Trespassing sign in the photo !!!!!!! Make up your mind if you have one.A fence is usaly a boundry marker. Also if he tells me when I am at his house for diner bring your kids over to ride. Then why would I need a written note?????
You didn't anwser about Irac.
You and your kind put bugs, plants , and other things that have no value before human value. This brings me back to the thought of those brave fire fighters that lost their lives and burned to death a couple years ago because of a stupid little fish that a eviro nut claimed was in the lake they were getting the water from to drop on the fire that could have saved their lives. Later to be found out the stupid fish did not even exsit in the lake.
If that is the kind of people and the cause you have to fight for, then I truly feel sorry for you.
What about the mosquito's that carry the viris?????
The dreaded fire ant?????????
The Medfly I beleave a few years back when we were all getting sprayed with bug spray??????????
What about their survival??????
You don't know what a reasonable anwser is, you have to cut and paste someone else anwser or anwser with a question.
How much does that show for yor smarts and the actual meaning behind your cause.
I would rather see your kind and the gang bangers being sent over to fight in Irac than the good people that have chose to fight for a real cause.
Be a real person and lets hear some good anwsers and give us YOUR cause and not someone elses that you cut and paste.
IS THAT POSSIBLE??????????????

I do have my facts straight. The 6 , that's six fire fighters that included a femal was in Colorado . You need to keep your facts straight. I don't cut and paste quotes to serv as an anwser. Unlike you I will try to anwser a question and not in another question.
You are a waist and can't prove or anwser a direct question on your own. Danny boy needs to give you more training.
The whole thing is you and your kind will never ever stop ORV's. It will always be places to ride. May not be the best place but you will hear the sound of those dreadful motors no matter where you go.
Hope you injoy it cause I sure do.

Frightening Quotes from Environmentalists

Attack Of The Socialist-Luddites)

The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state.

—Kenneth Boulding, originator of the “Spaceship Earth”
concept (as quoted by William Tucker in Progress and Privilege, 1982)

We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!

—Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue).

Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process…. Capitalism is destroying the earth.

—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists

We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects…. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of tens of millions of acres of presently settled land.

—David Foreman, Earth First!

Everything we have developed over the last 100 years should be destroyed.

—Pentti Linkola

If you ask me, it’d be a little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy because of what we would do with it. We ought to be looking for energy sources that are adequate for our needs, but that won’t give us the excesses of concentrated energy with which we could do mischief to the earth or to each other.

—Amory Lovins in The Mother Earth–Plowboy Interview, Nov/Dec 1977, p.22

The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species (man) upon the rest of the natural world.

—John Shuttleworth

What we’ve got to do in energy conservation is try to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, to have approached global warming as if it is real means energy conservation, so we will be doing the right thing anyway in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.

—Timothy Wirth, former U.S. Senator (D-Colorado)

I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.

—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs.

—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing....This is not to say that the rise of human civilization is insignificant, but there is no way of showing that it will be much help to the world in the long run.

—Economist editorial

We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight.

—David Foreman, Earth First!

Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental.

—Dave Forman, Founder of Earth First!

If radical environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS

—Earth First! Newsletter

Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, is not as important as a wild and healthy planets…Some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.

—David Graber, biologist, National Park Service

The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans.

—Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.

—Prince Phillip, World Wildlife Fund

Cannibalism is a “radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation.”

—Lyall Watson, The Financial Times, 15 July 1995

Poverty For “Those People”

We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels.

—Carl Amery

Every time you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby.

—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists

To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem.

—Lamont Cole

If there is going to be electricity, I would like it to be decentralized, small, solar-powered.

—Gar Smith, editor of the Earth Island Institute’s online magazine The Edge

The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States: We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the U.S. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are. And it is important to the rest of the world to make sure that they don’t suffer economically by virtue of our stopping them.

—Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

The continued rapid cooling of the earth since WWII is in accord with the increase in global air pollution associated with industrialization, mechanization, urbanization and exploding population.

—Reid Bryson, “Global Ecology; Readings towards a rational strategy for Man”, (1971)

The battle to feed humanity is over. In the 1970s, the world will undergo famines. Hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. Population control is the only answer.

—Paul Ehrlich, in The Population Bomb (1968)

I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000.

—Paul Ehrlich in (1969)

In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish.

—Paul Ehrlich, Earth Day (1970)

Before 1985, mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity…in which the accessible supplies of many key minerals will be facing depletion.

—Paul Ehrlich in (1976)

This [cooling] trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century.

—Peter Gwynne, Newsweek 1976

There are ominous signs that the earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production—with serious political implications for just about every nation on earth. The drop in food production could begin quite soon… The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologist are hard-pressed to keep up with it.

—Newsweek, April 28, (1975)

This cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. If it continues and no strong action is taken, it will cause world famine, world chaos and world war, and this could all come about before the year 2000.

—Lowell Ponte in “The Cooling”, 1976

If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. … This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.

—Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling, Earth Day (1970)

http://www.sharetrails.org/

Glad you put that up Mike. Be interesting to see Blu respond to that or I should say his questions.
Maybe we will all get lucky and they will start eating each other and selling their kids off first so the kids can injoy life.
That just proves how wako these enviro nuts are.

So begins a fund-raising letter from one of America's fastest-growing environmental groups -- Defenders of Wildlife.

Using the popular North American gray wolf as the hub of an ambitious campaign, Defenders has assembled a financial track record that would impress Wall Street.

In 1999, donations jumped 28 percent to a record $17.5 million. The group's net assets, a measure of financial stability, grew to $14.5 million, another record. And according to its 1999 annual report, Defenders spent donors' money wisely, keeping fund-raising and management costs to a lean 19 percent of expenses.

But there is another side to Defenders' dramatic growth.

Pick up copies of its federal tax returns and you'll find that its five highest-paid business partners are not firms that specialize in wildlife conservation. They are national direct mail and telemarketing companies -- the same ones that raise money through the mail and over the telephone for nonprofit groups, from Mothers Against Drunk Driving to the U.S. Olympic Committee.

You'll also find that in calculating its fund-raising expenses, Defenders borrows a trick from the business world. It dances with digits, finds opportunity in obfuscation. Using an accounting loophole, it classifies millions of dollars spent on direct mail and telemarketing not as fund raising but as public education and environmental activism.

Take away that loophole and Defenders' 19 percent fund-raising and management tab leaps above 50 percent, meaning more than half of every dollar donated to save wolf pups helped nourish the organization instead. That was high enough to earn Defenders a "D" rating from the American Institute of Philanthropy, an independent, nonprofit watchdog that scrutinizes nearly 400 charitable groups.

Pick up copies of IRS returns for major environmental organizations and you'll see that what is happening at Defenders of Wildlife is not unusual. Eighteen of America's 20 most prosperous environmental organizations, and many smaller ones as well, raise money the same way: by soliciting donations from millions of Americans.

But in turning to mass-market fund-raising techniques for financial sustenance, environmental groups have crossed a kind of conservation divide.

No allies of industry, they have become industries themselves, dependent on a style of salesmanship that fills mailboxes across America with a never-ending stream of environmentally unfriendly junk mail, reduces the complex world of nature to simplistic slogans, emotional appeals and counterfeit crises, and employs arcane accounting rules to camouflage fund raising as conservation.

Just as industries run afoul of regulations, so are environmental groups stumbling over standards. Their problem is not government standards, because fund raising by nonprofits is largely protected by the free speech clause of the First Amendment. Their challenge is meeting the generally accepted voluntary standards of independent charity watchdogs.

And there, many fall short.

Six national environmental groups spend so much on fund raising and overhead they don't have enough left to meet the minimum benchmark for environmental spending -- 60 percent of annual expenses -- recommended by charity watchdog organizations. Eleven of the nation's 20 largest include fund-raising bills in their tally of money spent protecting the environment, but don't make that clear to members.

The flow of environmental fund-raising mail is remarkable. Last year, more than 160 million pitches swirled through the U.S. Postal Service, according to figures provided by major organizations. That's enough envelopes, stationery, decals, bumper stickers, calendars and personal address labels to circle the Earth more than two times.

Often, just one or two people in 100 respond.

The proliferation of environmental appeals is beginning to boomerang with the public, as well. "The market is over-saturated. There is mail fatigue," said Ellen McPeake, director of finance and development at Greenpeace, known worldwide for its defense of marine mammals. "Some people are so angry they send back the business reply envelope with the direct mail piece in it."

Even a single fund-raising drive generates massive waste. In 1999, The Wilderness Society mailed 6.2 million membership solicitations -- an average of 16,986 pieces of mail a day. At just under 0.9 ounce each, the weight for the year came to about 348,000 pounds.

Most of the fund-raising letters and envelopes are made from recycled paper. But once delivered, millions are simply thrown away, environmental groups acknowledge. Even when the solicitations make it to a recycling bin, there's a glitch: Personal address labels, bumper stickers and window decals that often accompany them cannot be recycled into paper -- and are carted off to landfills instead.

"For an environmental organization, it's so wrong," said McPeake, who is developing alternatives to junk mail at Greenpeace. "It's not exactly environmentally correct."

The stuff is hard to ignore.

Environmental solicitations -- swept along in colorful envelopes emblazoned with bears, whales and other charismatic creatures -- jump out at you like salmon leaping from a stream.

Open that mail and more unsolicited surprises grab your attention. The Center for Marine Conservation lures new members with a dolphin coloring book and a flier for a "free" dolphin umbrella. The National Wildlife Federation takes a more seasonal approach: a "Free Spring Card Collection & Wildflower Seed Mix!" delivered in February, and 10 square feet of wrapping paper with "matching gift tags" delivered just before Christmas.

The Sierra Club reaches out at holiday time, too, with a bundle of Christmas cards that you can't actually mail to friends and family, because inside they are marred by sales graffiti: "To order, simply call toll-free ... " Defenders of Wildlife tugs at your heart with "wolf adoption papers." American Rivers dangles something shiny in front of your checkbook: a "free deluxe 35 mm camera" for a modest $12 tax-deductible donation.

The letters that come with the mailers are seldom dull. Steeped in outrage, they tell of a planet in perpetual environmental shock, a world victimized by profit-hungry corporations. And they do so not with precise scientific prose but with boastful and often inaccurate sentences that scream and shout:

From New York-based Rainforest Alliance: "By this time tomorrow, nearly 100 species of wildlife will tumble into extinction."

Fact: No one knows how rapidly species are going extinct. The Alliance's figure is an extreme estimate that counts tropical beetles and other insects -- including ones not yet known to science -- in its definition of wildlife.

From The Wilderness Society: "We will fight to stop reckless clear-cutting on national forests in California and the Pacific Northwest that threatens to destroy the last of America's unprotected ancient forests in as little as 20 years."

Fact: National forest logging has dropped dramatically in recent years. In California, clear-cutting on national forests dipped to 1,395 acres in 1998, down 89 percent from 1990.

From Defenders of Wildlife: "Won't you please adopt a furry little pup like 'Hope'? Hope is a cuddly brown wolf ... Hope was triumphantly born in Yellowstone."

Facts: "There was never any pup named Hope," says John Varley, chief of research at Yellowstone National Park. "We don't name wolves. We number them." Since wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone in 1995, their numbers have increased from 14 to about 160; the program has been so successful that Yellowstone officials now favor removing the animals from the federal endangered species list.

Longtime conservationist Peter Brussard has seen enough.

"I've stopped contributing to virtually all major environmental groups," said Brussard, former Society for Conservation Biology president and a University of Nevada, Reno, professor.

"My frustration is the mailbox," he said. "Virtually every day you come home, there are six more things from environmental groups saying that if you don't send them fifty bucks, the gray whales will disappear or the wolf reintroductions in Yellowstone will fail ...You just get super-saturated.

"To me, as a professional biologist, it's not conspicuous what most of these organizations are doing for conservation. I know that some do good, but most leave you with the impression that the only thing they are interested in is raising money for the sake of raising money."

Step off the elevator at Defenders of Wildlife's office in Washington, D.C., and you enter a world of wolves: large photographs of wolves on the walls, a wolf logo on glass conference room doors, and inside the office of Charles Orasin, senior vice president for operations, a wolf logo cup and a toy wolf pup.

Ask Orasin about the secret of Defenders' success, and he points to a message prominently displayed behind his desk: "It's the Wolf, Stupid."

Since Defenders began using the North American timber wolf as the focal point of its fund-raising efforts in the mid-1990s, the organization has not stopped growing. Every year has produced record revenue, more members -- and more emotional, heart-wrenching letters.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its all about the Benjamins?
Not a Beetle.