Thanks again for the link to the T.O.A report.
After reading the report, I gathered that there was no assessment of the area to the North of Hwy.78. Maybe I missed it but I could find no mention of the area.
Also from the results shown, the percentage of plants affected by OHV activity was less than 1%(0.93%).
Further, it seems to be that the plants in question are very succeptable(sp) to draught, and are quite dependant on rainfall.
I have a question for all three of these points. Hopefully you can answer them in youre own words from the "Green" perspective.
1.) If the entire habitat of the species in question(plant, animal or otherwise) is not surveyed then how can a determination be made as to whether the species is endangered or threatened?
2.)Would YOU consider less than 1% damage of anything by an outside source to be a major contributer to the damage?
ie: If bird droppings while driving caused .93% of all traffic accidents on the road, would this be considered a major cause?
3.)Would either side of this equation use an unusually dry or wet season to deflate/inflate the numbers in their study, and if so would they dare to publish seasonal conditions for years leading up to and including the year of the study?
There's plenty to discuss here, lets try the open forum thing again.
Full Version: Blu, a little help please.
Oh, and what else have you found out about the landfill issue? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Oops, Sailaway or Slappy, can you please move this thread to the Environment Forum please! Thanks......
[ 02-11-2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Race255 ]
Oops, Sailaway or Slappy, can you please move this thread to the Environment Forum please! Thanks......
[ 02-11-2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Race255 ]
Actually Blu, Since I'm on a particuallary bad note: Can't you just go away? No one likes or wants you here! Sheeeeeeeeesh
I'm not a biologist. However, I will give you my opinion.
[ 02-12-2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
quote:there are methodologies developed that will yield results that can be used to make these determinations. We have already posted at length on the environment board about the ways to measure populations by transects.
1.) If the entire habitat of the species in question(plant, animal or otherwise) is not surveyed then how can a determination be made as to whether the species is endangered or threatened?
quote:the short answer is no.
2.)Would YOU consider less than 1% damage of anything by an outside source to be a major contributer to the damage?
quote:I don't think so.
3.)Would either side of this equation use an unusually dry or wet season to deflate/inflate the numbers in their study, and if so would they dare to publish seasonal conditions for years leading up to and including the year of the study?
[ 02-12-2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
quote:As you wish
Originally posted by Race255:
Oops, Sailaway or Slappy, can you please move this thread to the Environment Forum please! Thanks......
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Vicki
race255, I would like a chance to answer those same questions.
Of course these are simple answers to your questions but you get the point.
quote:In a simple answer, it cant. Could you imagine what would happen if the census was done in this manor? The only way to fully know the health, population of ANY species is to count them all.
1.) If the entire habitat of the species in question(plant, animal or otherwise) is not surveyed then how can a determination be made as to whether the species is endangered or threatened?
quote:I finally agree with Lorne on something. Just some insite on how the impacted numbers came to be. When we counted the plants one-by-one, we also counted impacted plants. This means any plant that has been impacted by people, be it footprints or tire tracks. Allthough most of the "impacted" plants showed no sign of damage, we still counted them as impacted.
.)Would YOU consider less than 1% damage of anything by an outside source to be a major contributer to the damage?
ie: If bird droppings while driving caused .93% of all traffic accidents on the road, would this be considered a major cause?
quote:In the TOA study, reference was made to the recent rainfall and how the rain brought out many plants form a dormant state. Because of the plant and how it reacts to rainfall and drought, it would be sensless to count the plant while in a drought and while the plant was dormant. I would bet in the BLM/FWS study, there is no reference to recent rainfall and the effects of that rainfall, or lack thereof. But as of yet, nobody can produce the BLM/FWS study or the results of that study.
3.)Would either side of this equation use an unusually dry or wet season to deflate/inflate the numbers in their study, and if so would they dare to publish seasonal conditions for years leading up to and including the year of the study?
Of course these are simple answers to your questions but you get the point.
Race....Sure you want the trolls opinion??? I dont even read the trolls stuff anymore,(ding dong the witch is dead...) The troll,there`s more than 1 here, is entirely interested in "anti access" thats it,no more ,no less.Trolls want it all,& they cant have it,EVEN NEW CLOSURES,ALONG THE SAN DIEGO COAST.Hundreds of fisherman,& familys,in calif. are gonna suffer,for no good reason.The already have,North of San diego.Loss of employment (cant fish lots of channel island areas),bankruptcies,loss of boat(s).Down with the trolls,Sean
Ya, but think of all those cute little weeds and rats, and bugs that we're saving! God knows we need more bugs! 
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
QUOTE
Actually Blu, Since I'm on a particuallary bad note: Can't you just go away? No one likes or wants you here! Sheeeeeeeeesh
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