GlamisDunes.com > S4s Vs. Fortin 4sp

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 03:32 AM

Need some advice.
Next project is on my brain and I want to do it right!
Going with the 934s this time for sure, the trans is still up
in the air. My engine plans are 6-800 crank hp so I wont be making
the 2d mistake again. The s4s seems like a cool set up
yet its my understanding it uses the identical ring and pinnion
as the 2d

been there broke that. Ive been
looking at the fortin 4sp which is from what I see around the same
price and rated to 1khp, plus you can run your power steering off the front.
Give me some input if you had to do it again or in the process of picking
your gear box

flattire

Jul 29 2005, 06:31 AM

I have been using 3 rib BUS gear boxes for the last 25 years...and never broken anything.....maybe you should try one.....

.....(true story).......

KingGlamis

Jul 29 2005, 06:40 AM

Which model Fortin are you interested in?

nextasex

Jul 29 2005, 07:08 AM

trawak, how hard do you really drive?

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 29 2005, 07:24 AM

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 03:32 AM)

Need some advice.
Next project is on my brain and I want to do it right!
Going with the 934s this time for sure, the trans is still up
in the air. My engine plans are 6-800 crank hp so I wont be making
the 2d mistake again. The s4s seems like a cool set up
yet its my understanding it uses the identical ring and pinnion
as the 2d

been there broke that. Ive been
looking at the fortin 4sp which is from what I see around the same
price and rated to 1khp, plus you can run your power steering off the front.
Give me some input if you had to do it again or in the process of picking
your gear box

[right][snapback]1091615[/snapback][/right]

Well granted i'm not a trans expert but i've seen both the ring and pinion of an S4 and the R & P of a 2D and their definitly not the same. S4 runs a bigger R & P. I wish i had detailed specs of sizes, material, etc.

But, if i had to choose between the two and budget isn't an issue, i'd choose the Fortin 1st hands down for these foloowing reasons.
1) Fortin believes in their product enough that they will warranty it for 2 years in a sandcar - ONLY TRANNY BUILDER IN THE ENTIRE MARKET TO OFFER THAT
2) Many of the major & successful off road racers runs a Fortin trans. All the McMillian cars are running them (at least as of the 500)
3) for that assurance it's only another $2,000 +/- over the S4.

PS, Don't rule out the AGB trans. Comprable in price and quality to a Fortin.

BajaDezRacer

Jul 29 2005, 08:15 AM

There have been a lot of posts on this subject so you can find many opinions if you search.

McMillan's run Fortins and they also are developing their own new design transmission now.

My understanding is that the McMillan’s funded the casting of the Fortin box when it was developed.

If I was building a Class 1 race car I would definitely go with a Fortin or AGB.

Fortin does offer a 2-year "warranty" don't know the specifics of it but I would like to hear from someone that has used the warranty and their experiences.

Cost of a NEW Fortin 4-speed HD is not the same as a S4. Cost of sequential Fortin is WAY more than the S4.

An off-road race car with the type of power you are talking would most likely be equipped with a torque converter now so that is a different game all together.

I'll have a ~500HP (crank) LS2 attached to an S4 that I'll use in a heavy car for mostly desert running. I'm confident the S4 is enough for that use.

I did not want to go with a Fortin because I have paid for rebuilds of these transmissions and when "nothing is wrong" it is $1000. Also, I don't like having really only one source for parts.

S4 was $11k, Fortin 4HD would have cost me $15k.

The question of what is the best transmission is a little like asking what is a better truck GM or Ford. No clear cut easy answer. Depends what you will use it for and what is important to you.

Sandzilla

Jul 29 2005, 08:31 AM

Go with the Albin! The last tranny you will ever buy!

donparscale

Jul 29 2005, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 29 2005, 08:31 AM)

Go with the Albin! The last tranny you will ever buy!
[right][snapback]1091957[/snapback][/right]

You hope. Everything breakes sooner or later.
LATER DON~~~

Sandzilla

Jul 29 2005, 09:19 AM

QUOTE(donparscale @ Jul 29 2005, 08:59 AM)

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 29 2005, 08:31 AM)

Go with the Albin! The last tranny you will ever buy!
[right][snapback]1091957[/snapback][/right]

You hope. Everything breakes sooner or later.
LATER DON~~~
[right][snapback]1091977[/snapback][/right]

Now Don... Don't be putting any voo-doo on my tranny!...

donparscale

Jul 29 2005, 09:28 AM

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 29 2005, 09:19 AM)

QUOTE(donparscale @ Jul 29 2005, 08:59 AM)

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 29 2005, 08:31 AM)

Go with the Albin! The last tranny you will ever buy!
[right][snapback]1091957[/snapback][/right]

You hope. Everything breakes sooner or later.
LATER DON~~~
[right][snapback]1091977[/snapback][/right]

Now Don... Don't be putting any voo-doo on my tranny!...

[right][snapback]1092007[/snapback][/right]

Not me, I was looking at it in Idaho and that thing is killer, and I think you gave it a propper breakin. It is like the TV add says spend the money now or spend it later.
LATER DON~~~

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 29 2005, 09:31 AM

QUOTE(bfs @ Jul 29 2005, 08:15 AM)

There have been a lot of posts on this subject so you can find many opinions if you search.

McMillan's run Fortins and they also are developing their own new design transmission now.

My understanding is that the McMillan’s funded the casting of the Fortin box when it was developed.

If I was building a Class 1 race car I would definitely go with a Fortin or AGB.

Fortin does offer a 2-year "warranty" don't know the specifics of it but I would like to hear from someone that has used the warranty and their experiences.

Cost of a NEW Fortin 4-speed HD is not the same as a S4. Cost of sequential Fortin is WAY more than the S4.

An off-road race car with the type of power you are talking would most likely be equipped with a torque converter now so that is a different game all together.

I'll have a ~500HP (crank) LS2 attached to an S4 that I'll use in a heavy car for mostly desert running. I'm confident the S4 is enough for that use.

I did not want to go with a Fortin because I have paid for rebuilds of these transmissions and when "nothing is wrong" it is $1000. Also, I don't like having really only one source for parts.

S4 was $11k, Fortin 4HD would have cost me $15k.

The question of what is the best transmission is a little like asking what is a better truck GM or Ford. No clear cut easy answer. Depends what you will use it for and what is important to you.
[right][snapback]1091929[/snapback][/right]

Here's what it is when related to us.

Fortin wide gear four speed - $14,500
Fortin Shifter - $350
Shaft & U Joints - $160

Total: $15,010

S4 transmission:
Trans: $10,950 (doesn't reflect recent price increase)
Shifter - Included
Cable (including ends and hardware): $285.65
Knobs: $19 Ea X 2 = $38
Brackets: $15
LED Indicator for steering wheel: $225

Total:$11,513.65

Neither of these reflect installation charges. The S4 is much more difficult to install so i would think (at least in our case) the installation would be more on an S4.

Cost difference before installation: $3,496.35
Cost difference after installation: (depending on manufacturer) $3,300

Although there is a difference i would not call it HUGE or WAY significant, especially in an $85,000 + car.

The Sequential Fortin is $1,500 more in material. No installation difference.

We have a few cars with Fortins, one being 2 years old and none of them have had one issue. All the motors are 500 HP or more. Outside of that, i'm condfident that these cars will go another three years minumum before they even need to be serviced.

As far as the AGB, same cost as a fortin.

This doesn't reflect transmission coolers, pumps on the transmissions or another other do dads that can be added. And it also doesn't reflect those that don't know how to drive.

Chummin

Jul 29 2005, 09:44 AM

I have talked to the owner of fortin many times as his shop is just around the corner from me.
Going through a trans there was under 500 bucks. Im not sure where the 1000 comes from. Just like any other builder - parts will be extra - so Im pretty positive that 1000 had some parts in it.

The gear replacement cost was right there as well in comparision.
5 speed - 13,000-15,500
4 Speed - 14,900
FRS4 - 18,990
FRS 5&6 - 23,500

That was Sep 2004 pricing.

Freshen up is 425.00 + parts, Takes 3-5 days or faster if your desperate and will pay the overtime hours.
All parts are in stock.

As for parts in one place.. There are hundreds of mendi builders waiting on parts for those all the time.

Just like before - there is opinions on which is better - but as for price - they are much closer then one might imagine after 2 years of abuse.

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 10:51 AM

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 07:24 AM)

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 03:32 AM)

Need some advice.
Next project is on my brain and I want to do it right!
Going with the 934s this time for sure, the trans is still up
in the air. My engine plans are 6-800 crank hp so I wont be making
the 2d mistake again. The s4s seems like a cool set up
yet its my understanding it uses the identical ring and pinnion
as the 2d

been there broke that. Ive been
looking at the fortin 4sp which is from what I see around the same
price and rated to 1khp, plus you can run your power steering off the front.
Give me some input if you had to do it again or in the process of picking
your gear box

[right][snapback]1091615[/snapback][/right]

Well granted i'm not a trans expert but i've seen both the ring and pinion of an S4 and the R & P of a 2D and their definitly not the same. S4 runs a bigger R & P. I wish i had detailed specs of sizes, material, etc.

But, if i had to choose between the two and budget isn't an issue, i'd choose the Fortin 1st hands down for these foloowing reasons.
1) Fortin believes in their product enough that they will warranty it for 2 years in a sandcar - ONLY TRANNY BUILDER IN THE ENTIRE MARKET TO OFFER THAT
2) Many of the major & successful off road racers runs a Fortin trans. All the McMillian cars are running them (at least as of the 500)
3) for that assurance it's only another $2,000 +/- over the S4.

PS, Don't rule out the AGB trans. Comprable in price and quality to a Fortin.
[right][snapback]1091842[/snapback][/right]

Mcmullen is exactly who I will use should I choose the fortin, Ive heard nothing but the best about these transaxles. My beef is that the 2d I payed for plus the last rebuild plust the rebuild before that I would have the s4s, add in the down time and about 2k more I could be having fun and not worrying about breaking.
Ill look into the albins, dont they supply mendi with their gear sets?

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 10:55 AM

QUOTE(flattire @ Jul 29 2005, 06:31 AM)

I have been using 3 rib BUS gear boxes for the last 25 years...and never broken anything.....maybe you should try one.....

.....(true story).......
[right][snapback]1091761[/snapback][/right]

You know I think if I strapped one of those to my engine I woulnt have anymore worries

Really now ive already admitted to myself that I cheaped out on cvs 930s and the gear box 2d, the next car will not have me sitting on the side lines watching the fun, I wanna play in the sand tooo

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 11:05 AM

QUOTE(nextasex @ Jul 29 2005, 07:08 AM)

trawak, how hard do you really drive?
[right][snapback]1091820[/snapback][/right]

I wouldnt say as hard as some but I do like to get into the
throttle as much as possible.
I think to do what I want to do is beyond the capabilities
of the set up (trans and cvs) I am running now.
The way I figure it pay for it up front or be broke durring the season
paying for it then.
If I would have made the inital investment I would have the
gear box paid for already"through rebuilds and brken cvs." and the only additional funds would be paid out for the 934s and axles.
DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT NOT LIKE ME

No really I jump drag and whellie all the fun stuff that when running higher hp need to run heavy duty equip.
So what do recomend?

Sandzilla

Jul 29 2005, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 10:51 AM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 07:24 AM)

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 03:32 AM)

Need some advice.
Next project is on my brain and I want to do it right!
Going with the 934s this time for sure, the trans is still up
in the air. My engine plans are 6-800 crank hp so I wont be making
the 2d mistake again. The s4s seems like a cool set up
yet its my understanding it uses the identical ring and pinnion
as the 2d

been there broke that. Ive been
looking at the fortin 4sp which is from what I see around the same
price and rated to 1khp, plus you can run your power steering off the front.
Give me some input if you had to do it again or in the process of picking
your gear box

[right][snapback]1091615[/snapback][/right]

Well granted i'm not a trans expert but i've seen both the ring and pinion of an S4 and the R & P of a 2D and their definitly not the same. S4 runs a bigger R & P. I wish i had detailed specs of sizes, material, etc.

But, if i had to choose between the two and budget isn't an issue, i'd choose the Fortin 1st hands down for these foloowing reasons.
1) Fortin believes in their product enough that they will warranty it for 2 years in a sandcar - ONLY TRANNY BUILDER IN THE ENTIRE MARKET TO OFFER THAT
2) Many of the major & successful off road racers runs a Fortin trans. All the McMillian cars are running them (at least as of the 500)
3) for that assurance it's only another $2,000 +/- over the S4.

PS, Don't rule out the AGB trans. Comprable in price and quality to a Fortin.
[right][snapback]1091842[/snapback][/right]

Mcmullen is exactly who I will use should I choose the fortin, Ive heard nothing but the best about these transaxles. My beef is that the 2d I payed for plus the last rebuild plust the rebuild before that I would have the s4s, add in the down time and about 2k more I could be having fun and not worrying about breaking.
Ill look into the albins, dont they supply mendi with their gear sets?[right][snapback]1092180[/snapback][/right]

Mendi wants Albin to make the R&P gears for them because the mendi gears are junk! (do a post search and you will see what I'm talking about)

The Albin has the largest R&P out there.... 13"

When I was picking my transaxle, everybody I talked to said the Albin was hands down the strongest gear box out there... Even AZ-transaxle said that and I believe they are the best in the biz! They are not cheap, but in all things, you get what you pay for. JMHO.

Zilla

Sandzilla

Jul 29 2005, 11:39 AM

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 09:31 AM)

QUOTE(bfs @ Jul 29 2005, 08:15 AM)

There have been a lot of posts on this subject so you can find many opinions if you search.

McMillan's run Fortins and they also are developing their own new design transmission now.

My understanding is that the McMillan’s funded the casting of the Fortin box when it was developed.

If I was building a Class 1 race car I would definitely go with a Fortin or AGB.

Fortin does offer a 2-year "warranty" don't know the specifics of it but I would like to hear from someone that has used the warranty and their experiences.

Cost of a NEW Fortin 4-speed HD is not the same as a S4. Cost of sequential Fortin is WAY more than the S4.

An off-road race car with the type of power you are talking would most likely be equipped with a torque converter now so that is a different game all together.

I'll have a ~500HP (crank) LS2 attached to an S4 that I'll use in a heavy car for mostly desert running. I'm confident the S4 is enough for that use.

I did not want to go with a Fortin because I have paid for rebuilds of these transmissions and when "nothing is wrong" it is $1000. Also, I don't like having really only one source for parts.

S4 was $11k, Fortin 4HD would have cost me $15k.

The question of what is the best transmission is a little like asking what is a better truck GM or Ford. No clear cut easy answer. Depends what you will use it for and what is important to you.
[right][snapback]1091929[/snapback][/right]

Here's what it is when related to us.

Fortin wide gear four speed - $14,500
Fortin Shifter - $350
Shaft & U Joints - $160

Total: $15,010

S4 transmission:
Trans: $10,950 (doesn't reflect recent price increase)
Shifter - Included
Cable (including ends and hardware): $285.65
Knobs: $19 Ea X 2 = $38
Brackets: $15
LED Indicator for steering wheel: $225

Total:$11,513.65

Neither of these reflect installation charges. The S4 is much more difficult to install so i would think (at least in our case) the installation would be more on an S4.

Cost difference before installation: $3,496.35
Cost difference after installation: (depending on manufacturer) $3,300

Although there is a difference i would not call it HUGE or WAY significant, especially in an $85,000 + car.

The Sequential Fortin is $1,500 more in material. No installation difference.

We have a few cars with Fortins, one being 2 years old and none of them have had one issue. All the motors are 500 HP or more. Outside of that, i'm condfident that these cars will go another three years minumum before they even need to be serviced.

As far as the AGB, same cost as a fortin.

This doesn't reflect transmission coolers, pumps on the transmissions or another other do dads that can be added. And it also doesn't reflect those that don't know how to drive.
[right][snapback]1092033[/snapback][/right]

WOW! Great post Allen!

... Thanks for giving us all the scooby.

Zilla

on the gas

Jul 29 2005, 12:49 PM

actually the Albins AGB has a 11.5'' ring gear

BajaDezRacer

Jul 29 2005, 01:22 PM

Alan,
I have not personally price the sequential Fortin but I am curious about your $1500 more in materials quote.

I know Fortin has a 6-speed sequential (PBS engineered like the S4) but I have not heard about it being applied to the wide gear 4-speed or 5-speed.

Can you get sequential on any of the boxes for +$1500?

Heard the 6-speed sequential pushes $25k.

Sandzilla

Jul 29 2005, 01:22 PM

QUOTE(on the gas @ Jul 29 2005, 12:49 PM)

actually the Albins AGB has a 11.5'' ring gear
[right][snapback]1092332[/snapback][/right]

You are absolutely right!... I stand corrected. (Of course I called them to make sure.)

Zilla

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 29 2005, 01:24 PM

QUOTE(bfs @ Jul 29 2005, 01:22 PM)

Alan,
I have not personally price the sequential Fortin but I am curious about your $1500 more in materials quote.

I know Fortin has a 6-speed sequential (PBS engineered like the S4) but I have not heard about it being applied to the wide gear 4-speed or 5-speed.

Can you get sequential on any of the boxes for +$1500?

Heard the 6-speed sequential pushes $25k.
[right][snapback]1092361[/snapback][/right]

I have a four speed sequential in my shop right now. I'm trying to find the ticket to see exactly what my cost is. I know for a fact it's not $25,000

woodster

Jul 29 2005, 02:26 PM

Allen why is an S4 harder to install then a Fortin?Are u saying do to the shifter/ cables??

Also what is an LED indicator do for the S4?? I know of 3 diff cars with Fortins in them..They have all broke and were very expensive to fix. I think any transaxle will break..Its just if your lucky or not

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 29 2005, 04:19 PM

[FONT=Arial]

QUOTE(woodster @ Jul 29 2005, 02:26 PM)

Allen why is an S4 harder to install then a Fortin?Are u saying do to the shifter/ cables??

Also what is an LED indicator do for the S4?? I know of 3 diff cars with Fortins in them..They have all broke and were very expensive to fix. I think any transaxle will break..Its just if your lucky or not

[right][snapback]1092434[/snapback][/right]

It depends on how the car is made. Our car as well as many others doesn't fit the S4 so we have to modify the chassis to do that. Cables and brackets are just time consuming, not difficult, just take more time. The LED indicator mounts to your steering wheel to let you know what gear your in. That's the down side of using a sequential is you always loose track of what gear your in.

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 07:45 PM

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 29 2005, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 09:31 AM)

QUOTE(bfs @ Jul 29 2005, 08:15 AM)

There have been a lot of posts on this subject so you can find many opinions if you search.

McMillan's run Fortins and they also are developing their own new design transmission now.

My understanding is that the McMillan’s funded the casting of the Fortin box when it was developed.

If I was building a Class 1 race car I would definitely go with a Fortin or AGB.

Fortin does offer a 2-year "warranty" don't know the specifics of it but I would like to hear from someone that has used the warranty and their experiences.

Cost of a NEW Fortin 4-speed HD is not the same as a S4. Cost of sequential Fortin is WAY more than the S4.

An off-road race car with the type of power you are talking would most likely be equipped with a torque converter now so that is a different game all together.

I'll have a ~500HP (crank) LS2 attached to an S4 that I'll use in a heavy car for mostly desert running. I'm confident the S4 is enough for that use.

I did not want to go with a Fortin because I have paid for rebuilds of these transmissions and when "nothing is wrong" it is $1000. Also, I don't like having really only one source for parts.

S4 was $11k, Fortin 4HD would have cost me $15k.

The question of what is the best transmission is a little like asking what is a better truck GM or Ford. No clear cut easy answer. Depends what you will use it for and what is important to you.
[right][snapback]1091929[/snapback][/right]

Here's what it is when related to us.

Fortin wide gear four speed - $14,500
Fortin Shifter - $350
Shaft & U Joints - $160

Total: $15,010

S4 transmission:
Trans: $10,950 (doesn't reflect recent price increase)
Shifter - Included
Cable (including ends and hardware): $285.65
Knobs: $19 Ea X 2 = $38
Brackets: $15
LED Indicator for steering wheel: $225

Total:$11,513.65

Neither of these reflect installation charges. The S4 is much more difficult to install so i would think (at least in our case) the installation would be more on an S4.

Cost difference before installation: $3,496.35
Cost difference after installation: (depending on manufacturer) $3,300

Although there is a difference i would not call it HUGE or WAY significant, especially in an $85,000 + car.

The Sequential Fortin is $1,500 more in material. No installation difference.

We have a few cars with Fortins, one being 2 years old and none of them have had one issue. All the motors are 500 HP or more. Outside of that, i'm condfident that these cars will go another three years minumum before they even need to be serviced.

As far as the AGB, same cost as a fortin.

This doesn't reflect transmission coolers, pumps on the transmissions or another other do dads that can be added. And it also doesn't reflect those that don't know how to drive.
[right][snapback]1092033[/snapback][/right]

WOW! Great post Allen!

... Thanks for giving us all the scooby.

Zilla
[right][snapback]1092263[/snapback][/right]

I agree, thanks Allen for cost comparison.

trawak

Jul 29 2005, 07:48 PM

Can anyone out there report on how the S4s shifts, heard you use the clutch comming out of first then its not required 2nd 3rd 4th and back down. Do the cables require maintenence meaning frequent adjustments becouse of streaching?
Thanks for any info.

BajaDezRacer

Jul 29 2005, 07:57 PM

Clutch to get started and stop but after that it is not necessary.

Cables need infrequent adjustment once set properly.

Nice issue with cables vs. shaft for off-road is the weight of the shaft and chassis flex can bump a Fortin out of gear.

I wouldn't think you would ever see a problem in the dunes though.

Permagrin

Jul 29 2005, 08:12 PM

Im going to love driving my car with the S4

WIDE LOAD

Jul 29 2005, 08:14 PM

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 07:48 PM)

Can anyone out there report on how the S4s shifts, heard you use the clutch comming out of first then its not required 2nd 3rd 4th and back down. Do the cables require maintenence meaning frequent adjustments becouse of streaching?
Thanks for any info.
[right][snapback]1092740[/snapback][/right]

S4 shifts much smoother and easier than the Fortin. It is sweet to drive. Not near as noisy as a Fortin either.

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 29 2005, 08:26 PM

QUOTE(trawak @ Jul 29 2005, 07:48 PM)

Can anyone out there report on how the S4s shifts, heard you use the clutch comming out of first then its not required 2nd 3rd 4th and back down. Do the cables require maintenence meaning frequent adjustments becouse of streaching?
Thanks for any info.
[right][snapback]1092740[/snapback][/right]

That's exactly how it works, clutch to take off and then simply left off the gas slightly and then shift. From my serspective i think it's a little tricky but once you get used to it, most seem to like it.

Cables are solid rod (similar to a morse cable) and don't stretch. very little maintenace

k5james

Jul 29 2005, 08:40 PM

This is why when I finally do get the money to build a "rail", I'm going to build a tube chassis "truck" with a TH400 and 9" rear end.

1fastdsl

Jul 30 2005, 05:44 AM

The S4 also has a larger reverse gear. I was told by McMullen, that the Fortin and the Albin still have the puny reverse gear. (Fortin will not warranty reverse) I have also heard the Albin is a little tricky to shift and has no reverse lock-out. On top of that the S4 is Sequential. Drive a sequential and you won't go back.

Correct me if I am wrong.

RoosterBooster

Jul 30 2005, 07:31 AM

QUOTE(k5james @ Jul 29 2005, 08:40 PM)

This is why when I finally do get the money to build a "rail", I'm going to build a tube chassis "truck" with a TH400 and 9" rear end.
[right][snapback]1092780[/snapback][/right]

thats the fun of a planetary gear trans: on a pro comp manual shift TH 350/400 you dont lift the throttle to shift

donparscale

Jul 30 2005, 09:25 AM

QUOTE(spooner @ Jul 30 2005, 07:31 AM)

QUOTE(k5james @ Jul 29 2005, 08:40 PM)

This is why when I finally do get the money to build a "rail", I'm going to build a tube chassis "truck" with a TH400 and 9" rear end.
[right][snapback]1092780[/snapback][/right]

thats the fun of a planetary gear trans: on a pro comp manual shift TH 350/400 you dont lift the throttle to shift

[right][snapback]1092931[/snapback][/right]

On the S4/S5 you don't have to lift the throttle to shift also. That auto also eates up
a lot of HP.
LATER DON~~~

v8rail

Jul 30 2005, 09:42 AM

QUOTE(donparscale @ Jul 30 2005, 09:25 AM)

QUOTE(spooner @ Jul 30 2005, 07:31 AM)

QUOTE(k5james @ Jul 29 2005, 08:40 PM)

This is why when I finally do get the money to build a "rail", I'm going to build a tube chassis "truck" with a TH400 and 9" rear end.
[right][snapback]1092780[/snapback][/right]

thats the fun of a planetary gear trans: on a pro comp manual shift TH 350/400 you dont lift the throttle to shift

[right][snapback]1092931[/snapback][/right]

On the S4/S5 you don't have to lift the throttle to shift also. That auto also eates up
a lot of HP.
LATER DON~~~
[right][snapback]1092986[/snapback][/right]

Don,

wrong, that auto is no longer a auto

TC is the only thing that eats more power then a regular clutch ....so a manual shift TH350 eats about the same amount of power as a manual with TC

comphill

Jul 30 2005, 12:30 PM

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 04:19 PM)

That's the down side of using a sequential is you always loose track of what gear your in.
[right][snapback]1092587[/snapback][/right]

Why do you need to know what gear you are in? If you want to go faster you go up a gear if you want to go slower you go down a gear.
When going up in gears and you run out of them and you want to go faster, its time for a bigger motor

RoosterBooster

Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM

QUOTE(comphill @ Jul 30 2005, 12:30 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 04:19 PM)

That's the down side of using a sequential is you always loose track of what gear your in.
[right][snapback]1092587[/snapback][/right]

Why do you need to know what gear you are in? If you want to go faster you go up a gear if you want to go slower you go down a gear.
When going up in gears and you run out of them and you want to go faster, its time for a bigger motor

[right][snapback]1093058[/snapback][/right]

i was asking myself the same Q

thats the reason why i love our "Quicksilver" ratchet shifter so much: the shifter lever is always in the same position. after a short seat time you know without looking where to find it. if you hear or feel the engine lugging or close to overreving you simply bang the stick up or down with the fist

.
no worry about missed shifts; your full attention is on driving the buggy

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM

QUOTE(comphill @ Jul 30 2005, 12:30 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 29 2005, 04:19 PM)

That's the down side of using a sequential is you always loose track of what gear your in.
[right][snapback]1092587[/snapback][/right]

Why do you need to know what gear you are in? If you want to go faster you go up a gear if you want to go slower you go down a gear.
When going up in gears and you run out of them and you want to go faster, its time for a bigger motor

[right][snapback]1093058[/snapback][/right]

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.

1fastdsl

Jul 30 2005, 02:25 PM

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.
[right][snapback]1093072[/snapback][/right]

In all my years of riding dirt bikes, street bikes and quads, I have never had a gear indicator. Sure, it is only $200, but I think you can get by just fine without one. I could take it or leave it.

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 30 2005, 02:27 PM

QUOTE(1fastdsl @ Jul 30 2005, 02:25 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.
[right][snapback]1093072[/snapback][/right]

In all my years of riding dirt bikes, street bikes and quads, I have never had a gear indicator. Sure, it is only $200, but I think you can get by just fine without one. I could take it or leave it.

[right][snapback]1093104[/snapback][/right]

Your also dealing with a six speed trans also on a dirt bike or quad vs a 4 speed in a buggy.

v8rail

Jul 30 2005, 02:39 PM

QUOTE(1fastdsl @ Jul 30 2005, 02:25 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.
[right][snapback]1093072[/snapback][/right]

In all my years of riding dirt bikes, street bikes and quads, I have never had a gear indicator. Sure, it is only $200, but I think you can get by just fine without one. I could take it or leave it.

[right][snapback]1093104[/snapback][/right]

I agree with that.

I will not loose momentum when I shift (WOT shifts, so I'm still in gear, WOT, and rear tires will spins for 130+mph in that situation

)
When you are running out of gears up a hill you are wrong geared , I can understand to run out of gears in big bowls, but on a hill

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 30 2005, 03:13 PM

QUOTE(v8rail @ Jul 30 2005, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE(1fastdsl @ Jul 30 2005, 02:25 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.
[right][snapback]1093072[/snapback][/right]

In all my years of riding dirt bikes, street bikes and quads, I have never had a gear indicator. Sure, it is only $200, but I think you can get by just fine without one. I could take it or leave it.

[right][snapback]1093104[/snapback][/right]

I agree with that.

I will not loose momentum when I shift (WOT shifts, so I'm still in gear, WOT, and rear tires will spins for 130+mph in that situation

)
When you are running out of gears up a hill you are wrong geared , I can understand to run out of gears in big bowls, but on a hill

[right][snapback]1093113[/snapback][/right]

I'm always running out of gears (hills, drags, flats, etc) unless i'm driving a 6 speed. Guess i just go too fast for everyone.

v8rail

Jul 30 2005, 04:20 PM

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 03:13 PM)

QUOTE(v8rail @ Jul 30 2005, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE(1fastdsl @ Jul 30 2005, 02:25 PM)

QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)

Have you ever been jamin up a hill and think you have one more gear (i don't know about you but when i'm driving i don't make a mental note of what gear i'm in), make the shift and realize you don't have another gear, Lost all your momentum and screw up that perfect run. I have and i won't sell another S4 without the gear shift indicator. The average S4 car runs $65,000 +. I sure as heck ain't going to squawk about a $200 gear indicator.
[right][snapback]1093072[/snapback][/right]

In all my years of riding dirt bikes, street bikes and quads, I have never had a gear indicator. Sure, it is only $200, but I think you can get by just fine without one. I could take it or leave it.

[right][snapback]1093104[/snapback][/right]

I agree with that.

I will not loose momentum when I shift (WOT shifts, so I'm still in gear, WOT, and rear tires will spins for 130+mph in that situation

)
When you are running out of gears up a hill you are wrong geared , I can understand to run out of gears in big bowls, but on a hill

[right][snapback]1093113[/snapback][/right]

I'm always running out of gears (hills, drags, flats, etc) unless i'm driving a 6 speed. Guess i just go too fast for everyone.

[right][snapback]1093130[/snapback][/right]

or you dream pretty well

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 30 2005, 04:23 PM

BigDaddySD

Jul 30 2005, 04:31 PM

Here's a couple of things to consider:
1. Fortins are noisy, but this is because they use straight cut gears. They will quiet down after a little use. Straight cut gears are stronger and transfer power better than helical gears(use Redline Heavyweight shock proof gear oil). Fortin gears are made in England by the same guys that supply F1 and Indy car gears. Albins and Mendi use aussie steel for their gears.
2.Albins are strong (with the exception of the aussie steel) Nobody seems to mention the fact that they weigh 350# compared to 135 for 4/5 speed Fortin. The 5/6 seq. Fortins are 180#. Big difference.
3. How many class 1 cars have won the points championship or the 1000 with a Albins or Mendi? 0
4. 2 year warranty in sand cars

Xtreme Motorsports

Jul 30 2005, 04:35 PM

QUOTE(BigDaddySD @ Jul 30 2005, 04:31 PM)

Here's a couple of things to consider:
1. Fortins are noisy, but this is because they use straight cut gears. They will quiet down after a little use. Straight cut gears are stronger and transfer power better than helical gears(use Redline Heavyweight shock proof gear oil). Fortin gears are made in England by the same guys that supply F1 and Indy car gears. Albins and Mendi use aussie steel for their gears.
2.Albins are strong (with the exception of the aussie steel) Nobody seems to mention the fact that they weigh 350# compared to 135 for 4/5 speed Fortin. The 5/6 seq. Fortins are 180#. Big difference.
3. How many class 1 cars have won the points championship or the 1000 with a Albins or Mendi? 0
4. 2 year warranty in sand cars

[right][snapback]1093178[/snapback][/right]

Sandzilla

Jul 30 2005, 06:54 PM

QUOTE(BigDaddySD @ Jul 30 2005, 04:31 PM)

Here's a couple of things to consider:
1. Fortins are noisy, but this is because they use straight cut gears. They will quiet down after a little use. Straight cut gears are stronger and transfer power better than helical gears(use Redline Heavyweight shock proof gear oil). Fortin gears are made in England by the same guys that supply F1 and Indy car gears. Albins and Mendi use aussie steel for their gears.
2.Albins are strong (with the exception of the aussie steel) Nobody seems to mention the fact that they weigh 350# compared to 135 for 4/5 speed Fortin. The 5/6 seq. Fortins are 180#. Big difference.
3. How many class 1 cars have won the points championship or the 1000 with a Albins or Mendi? 0
4. 2 year warranty in sand cars

[right][snapback]1093178[/snapback][/right]

I don't have a problem with the weight, I just want it to last. And I don't care if the gears come from Never-Never Land...As long as they hold up and last. And you can get straight or cross cut gears in the Albin so that's pretty much moot.

I think the tranny choice is pretty much like the Chevy v.s Ford thing... Go with what you like. There are tons of Albins out there and I'm sure Fortins too... I haven't heard of either breaking so you can't go wrong either choice. JMHO.

Zilla

mike

Jul 30 2005, 07:26 PM

I like my S4 for sand application....light and shifts easy and quick.

Sandzilla

Jul 30 2005, 08:00 PM

QUOTE(mike @ Jul 30 2005, 07:26 PM)

I like my S4 for sand application....light and shifts easy and quick.
[right][snapback]1093265[/snapback][/right]

I think a lot of people like the S4 because it is light... no problem with that. I don't think it shifts better than any other tranny but it is lighter. Hell, if it would hold up better I would run one... but it doesn't. If my Albin every craps out on me, (for no apparent reason) I'll try a Fortin next. I just refuse to get caught in the "pull apart and inspect" cycle that the mendi owners go through...

1fastdsl

Jul 30 2005, 08:44 PM

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 30 2005, 08:00 PM)

... I don't think it shifts better than any other tranny but it is lighter.

Hell, if it would hold up better I would run one... but it doesn't.

Sequential vs H-Pattern

Do you know of someone that broke an S4 @ 500HP level?

Sandzilla

Jul 30 2005, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(1fastdsl @ Jul 30 2005, 08:44 PM)

QUOTE(Sandzilla @ Jul 30 2005, 08:00 PM)

... I don't think it shifts better than any other tranny but it is lighter.

Hell, if it would hold up better I would run one... but it doesn't.

Sequential vs H-Pattern

Do you know of someone that broke an S4 @ 500HP level?
[right][snapback]1093414[/snapback][/right]

It is common knowledge that the mendi trannys have R&P pitting problems. Some posters and even posted pictures on this site showing this. And if you don't stay on top of it. (tear down and inspect for it) you will have a major failure. They are farming out their ring and pinion work to Albins now> (rumor has it)... Should be better (fix some of the problems) but it will still be the same R&P as the 2D uses. (Same size)> 10"

If you really want the scooby on both of these tranny's call Arizona Transaxle @ 602-269-1444 and Weddle @ 805-696-9665 I'd also call Fortin but I don't have the number. These people know more about these tranny's than just about anybody... I'm sure some people will back me up about that.

Zilla