I have a problem with my mid engine standard travel beam car. It just sits too low and it's making it hard to have fun duning it, I'm remounting the upper rear tabs lower to raise the rear, but the front is where I'm not sure what will work best. It has the aluminum beam with no adjusters and no shock towers. My options so far are to get a new beam with adjusters (most expensive), put adjusters in mine (I'd rather just buy the new beam), cut the supports and twist the beam and re-weld the supports (cheapest option, but I'd have no adjustment if I set the wrong height) or use adjustable coil overs, I think I like this option the best, but if you take the leafs out of the beam, how do you keep the trailing arms on?? Just put a rod thru and let if float inside? Will this save any weight or would it add weight because of the heavier coil overs, I'd also like to keep it as light as possible.

Any suggestions??

just buy a beam with adjusters and SHOCK TOWERS, Run a good shock and you will be set. How in the hell did you drive it longer than 2 Min without shocks

The coilover option will give you the best suspension with what you've got. And yes, you just put a all-thread through and double nut each end. The weight difference should be minimal, as the leafs weigh a little bit.

I do have shocks, it's just that the beam doesn't have the towers, I welded tabs to the frame instead of using the beam with the towers...

[attachmentid=44693]

I'll look into the coil over option a little more, how do I know what type of coil overs to go with, do I just use the standard cheap one's from the local buggy shops or what?? Will they really give me a better ride up front too??

I had the same setup, went to the taller extream apex front tire. It will give you about 2 1/2"-3 1/2" more ground clearance. It also turns better. that the cheapest way to go

If you decide on the coil over shocks, stayaway from the cheapy ones at the buggy stores. you would have to go with fox, king,swayaway. and you would need to build some shock hoops.

If you need some pics, I have built a few cars this way and can post some pics for you to have a referance.
Or any other questions just ask.

My buddy has the same car as you. We just put new stock vw springs in and new link pins. The differance was night and day. Next season we will do the shock towers and Marvin Shaw shocks.

Never thought about new tires, do you have any pics of that set up, seems like the tire would be out of proportion if it's so tall??

Thanks for the tip on the cheapy coil overs, guess that idea is out, don't want to spend that kind of money and can't put hoops on, my front end goes under a low upper deck on my trailer, so I only have a few inches to spare as it is, I'd hate to modify my trailer for the third time since last season!!!

Nice car!! I was thinking of painting mine a similar color if I ever get it finished!!! It doesn't really sag that much, it's just that it's so low and it's the 2+2 so it's a longer frame and it high centers on just about every dune!!!! I know a few inches will help a lot and make it easier to drive. That and learning how to drive better would help too... I'll check some options out this weekend, so far it looks like I'll be buying a new beam with the adjusters, I'll have to look into the tires too, I think those are my two options for now.

one more thing about bigger tires is that they will roll over tire tracks and ruts in the sand much better from the bigger diameter.

I bought the small size for my buggy but after reading about the bigger tires i plan on changing them out too

Ok, so these bigger tires seem to be like a good option, so does anyone have a pic of a standard travel car with this larger tire and also how about the height of the tire so I can see how much taller my buggy will be? What size is it if I go into the buggy shop and ask for them? Thanks for the info everyone!!!

these are the 5 rib implement tires. they turn well, and the beam never drags any razorbacks.

they sit taller than the rear paddles, but sandrocket is right, they really smooth out the rough stuff. If you are worried about weight though, dont use an implement tire. Use a tire specifically designed for sand as they are lighter. I'll measure them up for you later tonight if you want.

Not sure how coil overs would lift the car unless your current suspension is sagging too much but I will leave that for others to deal with....for lift you need LONGER trailing arms and / or lifted spindles (3") ...the spindles are "race" items and sort of expensive unless there are some sand types available.....they have a sand version trailing arm that is 2 1/2 " longer I believe and might work good...those and some preload on the front suspension (adjusters or cut and rotate front) should get you higher...and the taller tires....good idea....

Go with the Sand Tires Unlimited 6.75 smoothie. Don't go with the Implements they are way too stiff of a tire. The STU's will help out with clearance and ride alot better. I ran them with 1300 paddles on a standard travel mid engine 2 seater and it looked just fine. It made a huge difference in ride and handling. Good Luck.

Actually weight is an issue and I checked on those apex tires, looks like it would be around $300 for a pair, so the cheapest and easiest route may be to just get the adjustable beam, about $165 or so. I may just do that, but I'm working on the rear end this weekend, so I have all week to figure out the front if there are any other suggestions...

Just out of curiosity though, how much are those ribbed tires and how much more do you think they weigh?? They look like they may float much better over the soft stuff too, can you run lower air pressure to help them float and not kick up as much sand? You know, if it isn't too much trouble go ahead and get the height, they may be an option even though they are heavier. Thanks.

I'm running the Xtreme 4.80's right now, they're about 24" tall, how tall are the 6.75's and do you have any pics??

27" I believe....

tires first i run a 8.50 s.t.u smoothie big help w/tires alone. i did a warrior six over beam w/ten" towers and adjusters. then i stepped up with a 2x4 trailing arm now i need to modify the frame for tie rod clearance.

hope this helps.

for a standard travel no bigger than a 6.80 or smaller diameter tahn the rear tires .IMO

So that would give me about 1 1/2" more clearance and more flotation? That would work, but it still is more than I wanted to spend. How well do the adjustable beams work? Does the ride get stiffer at all or is it pretty much the same as stock? This is a little cheaper and I like the fact that it's adjustable so I can play with the ride height and set it up where it works best.

That's alot more work and $$ than I want to put into mine, looks good though and has much more clearance than stock, do you have any idea how much clearance you have up front from the bottom of the lower beam to the ground?? Just curious how much more clearance you have than mine does.

the implement tires are 7.60-15SL's, and at 4psi measure approx. 28" tall. They dont throw sand like some cars with the smooth tires. They actually are a little bit shorter than the paddles, not taller. I know they are heavy, but I dont know how much they weigh. If you are getting an adjustable aluminum beam make sure the shock towers are billet and not cast, as I have broken a cast one. Good luck.

there is 21" from the bottem of the beam to the ground w/torsions cranked.

as you adjust the car up it adds preload to the torsion bars and make ride stiffer....just depends on how far up you adjust....

yes , 27 " tires would add 1 1/2 inch ride height...

If you are on a budget just go with adjustable beam and you may be happy with the results......

This is something we were just debating at work yesterday. How does it preload the torsions if you're just twisting them at one fixed point?? You're not even twisting them really, you're just repositioning them in a sense... I mean the outer attachment point is not fixed so there would be no more load on it than if it were at stock height, right? It's not like the torsions on a truck where you have two fixed points so if you twist them you are preloading and making for a stiffer ride. I just don't see how you're preloading inside the beam with just the central fixed point. The only thing I can see that will change is the angle of the trailing arm which would be at more of an angle so it may get a little stiffer depending on how extreme you go. Does any of this make any sense??

Someone please clear this up, I'm just guessing here, I'm by far no expert in this!!!

You can get the STU 6.75 smoothee's for $200 a pair which will help the ride and height when the budget allows. The tire is of softer rubber that allows it to flex more, great for the sand only. I have tried all of them. Sounds like your theory should be right on the beam torsions. Also my friend just got these tires for his mid like yours. he could give you a report in a couple of weeks.

Good question. I just finished my front end and actually there are two somewhat fixed points. The arms do twist along with the twisting of the adjusters but they can only twist so far. After that they are pre-loaded. I am no expert but that is how I see it.
If you were to jack up the front with the tires off the ground the beam would be pre-loaded. Remove the shock or limit straps and the arms would go almost straight down. You would then have no pre-load.

One more question on the existing beams. I want to at least try twisting them, my question is how to separate them from the gusset that supports them. It looks like it's pressed on, there are no welds so I was hoping to possibly cut across the gusset to relieve some pressure and it would just slide off the tubes??? Has anyone done this before or do you think that would work?? Any other suggestions on how to remove the gusset from the beams?

If I get the gusset off then I can twist the beams to get the desired ride height, then after I have the right height I can either weld another gusset or possibly weld a locating pin on the frame and drill the beams so they can't twist. Think it will work?? I know it's a lot easier just to buy the adjustable beam, but then what do I do with my existing one??? This way I don't spend any money, it's just my labor, unless anyone wants to buy a like new beam with no shock towers, anyone???

Who has these in the OC area? All I ever see now are the Xtreme's...

[quote=zero,Oct 21 2005, 07:57 PM]


Thanks for postin` your pics Zero, that will help me out with my new front suspension upgrade.

I am following this post closely, because my standard travel buggy needs some front-end work.

[attachmentid=44881][quote=jbennett,Oct 22 2005, 02:15 PM]
One more question on the existing beams. I want to at least try twisting them, my question is how to separate them from the gusset that supports them. It looks like it's pressed on, there are no welds so I was hoping to possibly cut across the gusset to relieve some pressure and it would just slide off the tubes??? Has anyone done this before or do you think that would work?? Any other suggestions on how to remove the gusset from the beams?

You can drill a new hole next to the original hole in the center of the beam and move the hole up. This will raise the front. Does not look so good though but it will work.I have pictures of one done but not to sure how to post it. This is a cheap not really good to do fix but it does work. "Warning" drilling too far up will not work. A half inch to 3/4 of an inch is plenty.
If you think you may want to try this let me know and I can tell you how I did

catrunner no problem on the pics. ive got lots of ideas and picked a few brains on this board its a great place for questions.

Well I answered my own question about twisting the beams, yes it can be done, I just did it and it only took a few hours at most!!!

Really simple actually, you can only do it with the beams without the shock mounts as you remove that whole section so the beams are separate, there's just a hardened dowel pin holding them in place, it's not too easy to remove, but once it's out, just tap the gusset until it's off, now you have two separate tubes, you can twist them however you want and then pin them to the frame once you're satisfied with the height. I just raised my frame about 2 1/4" and I'll mess with it some more later, I'm going to experiment with having more load on one beam than the other to soften up the ride, not much, but just curious how well that would work, kinda like a progressive rate spring, it will be softer at first, then stiffen up as it's compressed more...

I took a few pictures of the process, I'll post them as soon as I can. Time to take a little break...

We do that in our 1600 car. Bottom tube remains in the stock position, no adjuster. Top tube has an adjuster, works very well.

That's good to hear that it has been tried and does work!!! Is there any reason you adjust the top tube instead of the bottom? I was planning on adjusting the bottom tube since the steering box is mounted to the top tube and I'm not using an adjuster, I'm actually twisting the tube so I'd have to adjust the steering box each time I try a different position.

The car was built that way when we bought it. Seems like it is easier to get to than the bottom tube. We have a rack, so the steering box is not an issue.

Here are some pics of the modification of the beam, lets see if I can get these in the right order...

Here's the gusset to be removed, you can see the dowels that need to be removed first
[attachmentid=44904]

The only way I could remove the dowel was to grind it down most of the way and then punch it out
[attachmentid=44905]

After the dowels are removed beat the gusset off and the tubes are separate
[attachmentid=44906]

Here's a before shot, notice the position of the trailing arms
[attachmentid=44903]

After, notice the angle of the trailing arms now
[attachmentid=44907]

Now I just need to play with twisting the bottom tube and once I'm happy with that I'll just drill a hole through where the tubes mount on the frame and weld a dowel on so they can't twist, this way I can also still remove them when I paint my frame.

Here is the car that B&A duners was talking about. I just installed these tires this morning, so I have not had a chance to try them out. They raised the front end signifigantly more than the 4.50 smoothies. The car looks quite a bit tougher too!!!

Derek

Thanks for those pics jbennett, they speak a thousand words!