A few days ago while looking around the net, I came across a few pictures that made me ill. I found a wonderful area of nature, with these trails right thru the heart. I thought to myself, this land would sure be awsome if not for those trails. I thought of a certain troll we have all seen here and thought, "maybe that looser is right". Maybe this activity should be banned because of the scares left on our land. I thought of how this area will look in 10, 20, 30 years as my children take their children to see it. It will be scared and the inpact will last forever. I wondered about the selfish people that are making their tracks here and forcing the rest of us to live with it. I was truly amazed that in an America like ours, this type of obvious distruction was allowed. The fact that there are people fighting to continue this was beyond belief. We should all re-think our opinions on this devistating activity and work together to bring it to and end, or at least curb it as much as we can. In the name of nature and the human race. I am looking forward to hopfully visiting these exact locations and maybe even having a protest to stop this distructive activity. Im sure with enough support, we can get these hickers to stop the hicking on what is in fact our land. The hickers are destroying my land with their hard shoes and walking sticks. I would bet that the shoes they use are even stirring up dust storms that can be seen in the far distance, maybe even reaching up to a few sq inches in size. I am told that sometimes if you listen very carfully, you can even hear the hickers talking. The nerve of them interupting my peice and quite. Ok Im getting off the point here. We must stay focused on this land distruction by the dredded hickers. Im focused, are you?(these opinions are that of a mindless dolt, and probably not that of an intelligent person)

I have to agree 100% with you.. Especially in that last photo..
Its painfully obvious that if these dead-head hikers would at least stay on the one and only trail, The damaged grass would have a chance to grow and one day colver the obvious trail.

It is also painfully obvious that the dust they kick up with their SHOES and WALKING STICKS makes its way to the water and causes pollution there as well. This will ruin the fishing for my kids' kids.. what a shame. THESE HIKERS MUST BE STOPPED..

Was this an authorized hiking area? Did those people have permission to hike there? Maybe bluesky can prove it.

What Glamis looks like after one windy day, no matter how many tracks were put on her sands.

What glamis looks like on a typical weekend..

These darn ants are tearing up the landscape.... Unauthorized? Call the Antic Police!!!


OH NO.. Renegade ANT!!! KILL THE ANT.. Its clear hes leaving tracks in the sand..


Guess this guy treads lightly..


OK.. 1 more.. notice the DEPT of the footprints.. Must be 4-6" deep.. Tracks from bikes are a whoppin 2-3".. I ask.. who does the damage.. Damn hikers..

In response to my original post, I have tried to research weather or not this was legal hiking. I was unable to find any evidence of no trespasing signs. I also was unable to fin any sign saying "hiking allowed". Based on the fact that there are no signs posted, I can only assume that this was illegal hiking. I am sure that this is private property and Therefore should not have been destroyed like it is. Unless the illegal trespassers have a document from the land owner, we can only believe that it was trespasing. For a minute I thought that there should have been a fence around the land to keep the trespassers out, but thats NOT the rsponsability of the land owner. Everyone should know, private property, no written permission= stay out. I can only hope the law in the area is persueing the people and when caught, they will be punished to the maximun extent of the law. ( this is the opinion of a mindless dolt, probably not that of a right minded thinker.)

WOW! Look at these "trails" through nature. I'm sure Bluesky has NEVER used these trails. :shock:

KG, where did you find that picture? That's terrible! Were you there legally? Look at the vw bus in the picture. Can you imagine the pollution from that thing?! >:<
:mrgreen:

I don't see any signs saying that anyone is allowed to use these trails, so following the logic dribbled out of the mouths of certain other people, I must conclude this use is illegal.

Close it down! Fence it off! Patrol it with armed guards and dogs!

Egad, this kind of abuse is rampant in southern California!

Vicki

The amazing part is how true it is. Some people really do believe that the only damage to our land is from ATV's and off roaders. The reality is, as these pictures show, hikers cause damage as well. So to use damage to the land as an excuse is hypocritical. What it does is show just how stupid and close minded the greens really are. I dont believe any green person(or a blue one) could look at these pictures of the trails on hiking grounds and make the claim that they are different than those of ATV's.

The simple fact is, trails are here to stay regardless of how they became trails or who made them. The difference is, we are ok with trails and hikers, the greens are ok with their trails and want ATV's banned.

Well I've posted this before and of course Bluesky ignored me, but I will post it again. I fly to Michigan about 2-4 times a year. I just flew there this last weekend. I always get a window seat so I can look at our great country from above. It is easy to spot most trails and dirt roads from the air. And I can honestly say... less than 1% of the land I saw from here to Michigan and back had OHV trails on it. Seriously. I see millions of acres that have no tracks, trails, or roads what so ever. Millions and millions of acres. The A319 I was on today cruises at 525mph. It takes hours at that speed to go from Michigan to California. During those hours I saw millions of acres of land with no OHV trails. So is the problem Bluesky complains about really that much of a problem in the whole scheme of things? No way!

LMAO Vicki! Good points!

what I'm hearing you say is:

1. hiking impacts the land to the same degree as motorized recreation.

2. If it's not visible from 30,000 feet, it doesn't exist.

Well, Mr. Enviro Denial, yes, hiking does impact the land the same as motorized recreation. But in many ways hiking is worse because hikers are allowed in national parks. Ever been to Yosimite? Those hiking trails have caused more permanent damage than most OHV trails I have seen.

As for your number two post, prove me wrong. I dare you. Prove me wrong. I double dare you. I triple dare you. I say 99% plus of the land in this country that is not used for housing, farming, manufacturing, or transportation is NOT affected by OHV traffic. Prove me wrong. I dare YOU. You can't do it. You know I'm right and you are full of hot air. You know it, but you will spout off some off the wall statement to try and change the subject. You always do when you lose the battle. Loser!

KG you're not making sense. I can walk across virgin land in the hard pack desert and you can't see where I walked but just one pass by a dirt bike, quad or buggy and the tire marks will last for years. Not to mention the damage done to plants that are run over and the underground animal burrows that are crushed. Let's not forget the nuisance of the noise from the machine, the dust produced by loss of ground cover and the pollution left by 2-stroke engines. The hiking trails pictured above were made over many years by the passage of thousands of people. Compare that to the mutliple trails made by OHV use. You see, hikers are following a trail in order to get somewhere, while OHV riders are just interested in riding for the sake of enjoying their machine. Why do OHV riders make multiple trails to climb the same hill? It's part of the satisfaction of riding to blaze new trails and to leave new marks in nature.




The point is you can't see OHV trails from 30,000 feet.

Bluesky, where is that 3 icture taken from. Id like to go riding there..Look like some nice hills!!!!

RoostKing...

Ok this is intended to show how flawed the logic of some people really is.

Follow me here...Avg shoe size of a grown man, 10 inches long by 3 inches wide. =30 sq inches x 2 shoes = 60 sq inches.


60 sqinches divided into 200 lbs =3.3 lbs per sq in


avg quad weight=330 lbs plus rider = 530 lbs
contact patch of tire
front tire 7x4 inches =28inches x 2 tires=56 inches.
rear tire 5x10 inches=50 inches x 2 tires =100 inches
all four tires = 156 inches divided by 530 lbs =3.3lbs per sq inch.

So what the heck does this prove? Absolutly nothing. The point is, under normal conditions ie.d driving on flat ground thru hard packed desert as some have mentioned, in fact let me use a quote from our favorite idiot. "I can walk across virgin land in the hard pack desert and you can't see where I walked but just one pass by a dirt bike, quad or buggy and the tire marks will last for years" there really is no difference between people and ATV's. Ands only a fool would try to make this comparison. The difference comes when the tires spin, or the feet slip.
Some fools talk about "nuisance of the noise from the machine." One persons "nuisance" does not make it everyone nuisance. I personally dont like the back pack hickers wear or the annoying clicking of those loud cameras. But will I try to stop them, no, they have that right. Noise is not a reason just an excuse.
Nobody knows, not even our resident idiot, how long a trails has been there. Or how many people used it or how much longer it will be there. There is no way of knowing this. But many will make the claim to know. In fact another quote from an idiot "You see, hikers are following a trail in order to get somewhere, while OHV riders are just interested in riding for the sake of enjoying their machine." You cant make the claim that OHV'er are not trying to get somewhere. Allthough it is true, they are they to enjoy their machines. Is that a crime?

Damage done by hikers is un-arguable. It is there, it will continue to be there. There is not a day that goes by that hikers are not doing more damage to our public land. Nobody can argue the damage done by hikers. I am continueing to do research into damage doen by hikers. As I get more info on there distruction, I will post it here.

uh oh... There are serious problems in Hawaii..
:shock:

Aaron Lowe, a trails and access specialist for the Department of Land & Natural Resources, walked recently along a portion of a trail in Makiki damaged by wild pigs that come down from the mountains rooting around for food.





Aaron Lowe, a trails and access specialist for the Department of Land & Natural Resources, pointed recently at a footprint made by wild pigs on a Makiki hiking trail. The pigs have rooted around the forest looking for food and caused soil erosion.


GEORGE F. LEE / GLEE@STARBULLETIN.COM
Partially eaten roots uncovered from a Makiki hiking trail are evidence of the damage caused by wild pigs.



Story from http://starbulletin.com/2002/03/25/news/story2.html

Wow, they issue special hunting permits for these pigs.. Can we get special hunting permits for hikers that are not in Rec areas also? YES blue you can have permits for OHV riders that are illegal as well.
I think we could stuff more hikers than you could ever with OHV'rs.

Based on "best avaliable science" (mine) It is safe for me to hypothesize,that less than 1% of all land,from Cal to New York,has trails that are created by ohv`s.I can tell,because at 30,000 feet,I can see very few trails.My "best available science"also tells me,nobody ever hikes,in the dunes.I have never seen anyone hiking,during my "studies" there.No 2 cycle oil,& race fuel were blended,during my posting,I promise.Sean.

then these guys weren't hikers. Were they duners?

Uhh, Hello Bluesky, it appears they are murderers... DUH

RoostKing...

Using the logic of our favorite troll, we can sumize that all duners must be murderers. And of course, thanks to Robert Blake, all actors are murderers.
You kinda gotta wonder what the heck is the tought process that goes thtru Blue's mind and make him post this crap...Oh wait, blue& thought process...kinda like military intellegence...Honest Attorny...

You forgot one... following that same logic, since the Unibomber was a devout environmentalist, all environmentalists are murderers.


Vicki

Is that logic similar to the logic that "proves" that motorized vehicles impact the land less than hikers?

you're jumping to a conclusion I didn't make. BTW I saw over on the ASA board where Jhistema posted (and since deleted) a comment that hikers must be finding out about the dunes and this killing is related to them!

I read today that the people involved were actually trying to stop a fight between a man and his wife. The victim was the man who was allegedly beating up on his wife (between wash 3 and 4). When confronted by neigboring campers, the man got a gun which ultimately caused his own death.

I would surmise that all of the parties were there to ride in the dunes. This does not make all duners murderers. However, it is an example of out-of -control behavior than is going on in the ISDRA.

Geez, Blue plays a great game of "bet you I can make less sense than you".

Round tweezers run lazily above swinging droplets.

Vicki

Hmmmm.... Ponder this bluesmell. What about the hikers/environmentalists that are placing piano wires across trails at neck height up in Lytle Creek and Stoddard? What about the hickers/environmentalists that are placing boards with nails at the bottom of steep trails. I am wondering if that is out of control behavior. That sums it up for me. All hikers/environmentalists are out or control!

terrifying news found today. It seems that hikers are running rampant on the trail killing people for little to no reason. Well accually they had a good reason in thier minds, seems the victoms were...lesbians. I can only surmize the murderers were on the trail because they were hikers. Then they just go out and kill people. If this isn't an example of the out of control behavior going on on the hiking trail, nothing is.



Source=www.aldha.org/murders.htm



the wild wing dove has seen the edge.

do you have proof of this? Poiks called the Ranger at BLM Barstow who said there was no factual basis for this rumor.

[quote="Bluesky"][quote]do you have proof of this?  Poiks called the Ranger at BLM Barstow who said there was no factual basis for this rumor.[/quote]

Much as I hate to do it--this deserves a response. I called the ranger station quite a few months ago about a specific allegation of some kind of "booby trap" being placed--I believe it was at Stoddard Valley OHV area. The ranger told me that there was no "booby trap," but in fact there was a "tortoise trap" placed near the fenceline that someohow got people concerned. He didn't say anything about whether there had, or had not, been other instances of this nature in Stoddard Valley or other areas.

Well poiks, the fact that the rangers could not confirm what your questioning, does not mean it doesn't happen. All it means is they could not confirm the case you were questioning. There very well may have been another case in another location. Dont pound yourself. The fact that you responded to fruitfly...I mean bluesky wont be held against you. Just dont let it happen again.

Agreed.

Don't worry--only when he quotes or paraphrases me!

Actually I dont have proof but I will find the proof that I once had that was in the form of a news article in relation to Lytle Creek. I also believe there was a police report on it and a picture of some of these instances. Most of the stuff in the article was related to Lytle Creek but there was also a reference to an instance in Stoddard. I will see what I can do to find this stuff and shov..... Oh forget it!

Someone had either better stop slandering me or at least put down the crack pipe. I have NEVER deleted any of my posts here or on the ASA board and can't remember the last time any of my posts were deleted by anyone else (which indidentally only happened to me on here and never on the ASA board).

I made no comments at all about hikers and the murders. My only comments about hikers finding the dunes was a toungue in cheek comment on this board about the proliferation of empty water bottles being found suddenly.

oops sorry!!!

Yes Bluesky, you are sorry.

RoostKing...

Wow, go to the desert for a few days to do my thing and look what I missed! :roll2:

[quote]I don't see any signs saying that anyone is allowed to use these trails, so following the logic dribbled out of the mouths of certain other people, I must conclude this use is illegal.

Makes sense to me Vicki, I mean if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. What's your opinion Lorne? Obviously this is "damage" and should be stoped, right? Do you think we should close all public land to hikers? After all, look at the damage they are responsible for. What differance does it make how it was done? Lets see him cut-n-paste out of this corner! :cheese:

And by the way, what were you doing on the ASA board? What part of "NOT WELCOME" don't you get???


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