[color=blue][/color] DOES N E ONE NOTICE THAT THE CURRENT MINI RAILS TURN LIKE BATTLE SHIPS.

Then I guess you have not seen one of Tom Pro cars. His cars turn just as good as a normal rail. My uncle has a Sandbullet and yes it does turn like a battle ship. Tom's car can easily turn with in the turning radius of a Sandbullets car. My uncle is going to have Tom fix the turning problem. I have not seen how the Short Sand Cars turn so I cannot compare them. Tom should have so videos on his web site soon so you can see how they drive. The address for the web site is http://www.home.earthlink.net/~badbusa/ He is also going to be in the next issue of Sand Sports along with the other manufactures.

I own a Sandbullet and have noticed, but I haven't driven other rails so I have nothing to compare it to.

I gave Tom a call today and chatted with him. If you could hook me up with your Uncle I'd be interested in knowing how things go for him with Tom's modifications. Is that the car I saw you in at Gordon's this December?

Any car with a live rear axle will not turn well, especially at low speeds...you need to have a differential. Then you can also use turning brakes. I built a mini-rail and ended up selling it with one of the main reasons being it's lack of turning radius. Plus the problem is multiplied when you have to manuever through a tight such as a parking lot because there is no reverse on most of these. As most mini-rail owners can relate to, I had to get out and push it backwards, get back in and continue the turn. Even pushing them around the garage is a pain unless the wheel is perfectly straight.

I gave Tom a call today and chatted with him. If you could hook me up with your Uncle I'd be interested in knowing how things go for him with Tom's modifications.

Me too! Exactly what does Tom recommend to fix the problem other than a new diff type axle?
On the same subject, I wrote to Wiesmann transmissions about a trans that they make for a bike engined street car. Weismann is famous for Indy trannys and surface drive units for off-shore boats. He stated that he's got a 2-speed rear drive with reverse.
That means that it could have 5 forward and 5 reverse in one range. and the same in another. Or 6 depending on whether your tranny is a 6-speed. The ranges were 1:1, and .745 overdrive with a changable front ratio on the drive sprocket. The drive bolts to the input shaft:: NO CHAIN TO TENSION OR LUBE.
Only $7500!!!
What a deal...
Carl

Now I feel really stupid. I have to admit that I never even attributed the monster turning radius to the rear end! I assumed it was because, like a Banshee, the front wheels don't really turn at the same rate. As the turn grows sharper, the inside wheel angle seems sharper than the outside. Obviously you're both right that the rear end is the issue.

I should've known that, because I actually built a pair of wheel dollies to help with moving the buggy around the garage and driveway.

DUH.

Maybe thats why tom pros buggy turns well because of his reverse gearbox on his buggies. This guy is crafty he has everything machined down in it to save weight. Just to build your own gearbox is cool and then to have it work well just makes it that much better.

Yeah the red car you saw in Dec. was my uncles. He does not use the computer that much, so when he does get the front end fixed I will let you guys know how it turned out. I think all Tom is going to do is change the A arms and the spindles. Morgyyy Tom also has a reverse box for his rails. It to has 5 or 6 forward gears as well as 5 or 6 reverse gears. I think the reverse box runs $2500.

[quote="Poiks"]
I should've known that, because I actually built a pair of wheel dollies to help with moving the buggy around the garage and driveway."

Well, you could design a billet holder for the dollies to carry it around the dunes with you... ...maybe on the roof...behind you like a trailer...conceal them in a really big ice chest... (uh, this is humor by the way...)

[quote="Poiks"]I assumed it was because, like a Banshee, the front wheels don't really turn at the same rate. As the turn grows sharper, the inside wheel angle seems sharper than the outside. Obviously you're both right that the rear end is the issue.

They're NOT supposed to turn at the same rate! They are supposed to go to a toe out position on full lock.

The reason is that if you think about the track width as two separate turning circles, inside and outside, the outside is a much larger circle, therefore, they have to be different or it would drag one of the two front wheels around the circle.

It's a function of the "Ackerman" designed into the spindles. The correct angle of the steering arms on the spindle should point to the center of the rear axle. It should be different for each wheelbase.
Carl

Well now... anyone that says a mini buggy with no differential doesn't turn well, doesn't know how to drive it like it was intended. Just like a quad, a mini buggy that has constant power to both rear tires needs to be slid around corners. Driving lessons are available... for a price. :wink:

Yes, out in the open dunes that is fine, but what about around camp, vendor area, loading it into trailer, moving it in garage, etc? You can't always turn "on the gas".
Plus most mini-buggies have a longer wheelbase than quads making them harder to slide. Also, the engine on a mini-buggy is farther back then on a quad putting alot more weight on the rear tires.

Sounds like you need some of Doug's lessons Morgyyy Even with a cast iron pinto motor in my regular buggy dragging down the rear and a 100" wheel base I can get that thing to slide around at low speeds. Just takes some practice with the throttle , clutch and brake to learn how to get them tires spinning without launching yourself completely

Heck I love pulling into camp sideways scares the heck out of the tourists who stop by at Buttercup to check out the action

Yeah those tourists at Buttercup always stand where the little pebbles are. Makes for a good roost! :mrgreen:

The best part is giving them rides Always surprises me when the big burly men don't last 2 minutes before begging for mercy and the old geezers start screaming for more the first time you catch a little air :shock:

Bottom line...
Can a car with a live axle turn and slide....yes, under power.
Will a car with a differential turn sharper and be more accurate, slide better, and be easier to push around and load...you bet.
Will I build or own another one without a differential....no way!
My $0.02.

I AM IN THE MILITARY AND I JUST WANTED TO GET THE FEEL FOR THE CURRENT STATE OF THE MINIRAIL CROWD. I WILL BE RETIRING SOON AND I WILL BE MOVING BACK TO UTAH TO BUILD RAILS. I WORKED WITH SANDTEC BEFORE GETTIN REASSIGNED. THE NAME OF THE COMPANY WILL BE R.E.D. (RADICAL ENGINEERING AND DESIGN) . IM WORKING WITH SOME ENGINEERS AND WE HAVE COME UP WITH A SMOKIN DESIGN FOR A MINI. BY COST ANALYSIS, THE COST WILL BE BELOW 15K WITH A GSXR1000 POWERPLANT AND FULL PAINT AND POLISH.
IF U R OUT AT JERICO OR ST. ANTHONYS NEXT YEAR, U WILL SEE MY PRODUCT.

Guys,
I just ran across this site that has a soulution for right around $1000.
Quaife has been making performance diffs for many years. Check out their site:

http://www.quaifeamerica.com/

They have a box W/ reverse and a selection of ratios.
Tom Pro wants $2500 for a hand made box.
It's available with CV flanges too.

Carl

NICE DIFF. ITS ACTUALLY BASED ON A TORSEN DESIGN, BUT ITS BAD FOR OUR APPLICATION. IF U LOCK A TURNING BRAKE IT JUS APPLIES POWER TO THE LOCKED WHEEL.

Most motorcycle-based minis (that I know of ) don't have turning brakes--just a single disc.

Carl, the only thing I saw on their site for chain-driven cars goes for $2950. Looks interesting, though.

Guy's

I had the same concern after driving a buddys mini! Jay Largo at www.desertdogoffroad.com built allot of cars for stadum racing. The swing axles didn't work!! Its kinda funny but honda pilots did!! Guess what he copied!! I will try to get him to login and explain why it works. My car will scare you on how hard it corners! I can go ride with quads in buttercup or glamis with the big cars!!
:burn:


http://www.azdwarfcars.com/nick/small/DSC_...1575%20copy.jpg

http://www.azdwarfcars.com/nick/small/DSC_...1507%20copy.jpg

the tom pro turns great that is one of the reasons why my long travel is being built by tom in stead of any other mini builders. i am going out to pismo sand dunes the 21 of this month in toms single seater. and it turns great. if any one wants to see how i turns go to pismo it is a blue single seater with stainless panels. it is also for sell if any one is interested. trust me it is a very quick and reliable mini.

[quote=AL8APEX,Mar 10 2003, 05:52 PM]
Guy's

I had the same concern after driving a buddys mini! Jay Largo at www.desertdogoffroad.com built allot of cars for stadum racing. The swing axles didn't work!! Its kinda funny but honda pilots did!! Guess what he copied!! I will try to get him to login and explain why it works. My car will scare you on how hard it corners! I can go ride with quads in buttercup or glamis with the big cars!!

I was searching around for mini info and saw that Jay never got the chance to answer this one. I have driven Jays cars and they are awesome! They turn great because they have a modified 5 link rear suspension. The way he sets up the rear suspension gives a bit of rear wheel steering in compression. So, as weight transfers the weighted tire toes out, even with a spool drive (non dif) the car turns nice. You can feel it in the seat when you are going straight and the rear suspension compresses too.

I have driven a Taz Car www.atv1racing.com and a 1000cc Pantera www.desertkarts.com. Those cars don't turn as tight but they feel much better in the long fast straights. All of them push real bad at low speed.

These post are from March. Did anyone buy a Quaif, or any dif since then?

TOP cars

We got the "Slayer" from Desert Dog and my wife has no problem out turning us quad riders on fast, tight rides.

The Coyote by Desert Dog was designed to DUNE! It handles well and is well balanced for riding.

The Desert Dog Coyote has a RX1 4-stroke snowmobile engine with a belt drive, no gears, and it has a gearbox with reverse. Desert Dog designed the rear end off the Honda Pilot with a 5-link rear end, causing the car to handle awsome in the dunes. It has 18" of travel and weighs a 1000 lbs.

The Slayer dunes with 225 HP with 7 lbs boost and with flip of a switch to 11lbs of boost, we get 260 HP.

If you "mini" doesn't turn, maybe you got the wrong "mini".

March 2003.

The US Navy recently anounced a new "outboard motor" style technology replacing the antiquated rudder system.


Now, their battleships turn tighter than mini-rails.

Last saturday at the plaster blaster I meet a guy with a sandbullet mini sandrail and he had a quaife gear box. The guy told me that they use them in europe where they race mini rails. He went on to say that the gear box has a limited slip built into it to help with turning and with traction. The guy went on to say that the box went for $2500 because they were casted and not machined.

Musta been a while ago cuz I priced them and with the exchange rate it was more like $3500 with no shipping included.

Sandbullet/Gear One box is $4995 a la carte.

No thanks, I'll just learn to be a better driver.

Carl

That's because they don't have diff's. With a solid axle, two brakes does not mean turning brakes--you have to have a diff for them to help turn.

There was a guy at the SSS that had a nice looking unit for this application, It used 930 CV's joints and reverse. I have his imfo. I can dig out if anyone is interested. He also had a trany in his booth that looked like a linco, I think his was a jeffco. I will look it up tomorrow, I think he was in San Diego.
DON~~~

Please do Don!!


Thanks!!

Carl