Hopefully my scare tactic worked, and you're here reading this. Unfortunately, it is no joke. Read this: http://www.sandbros.com/files/odnra_alcohol.doc

You're right Shane-O, it is no joke and it's headed our way.

This is not being pushed by the BLM (as a matter of fact they are not supporting the push). It is being pushed by State-level and Federal-level people.

It's a knee-jerk public relations move. Everyone knows alcohol makes people do crazy things right (yeah right)? The politicians play against that belief and so when asked how they're going to fix the problems at the ISDRA, "we'll ban alcohol" is the answer.

Vicki

Good luck getting it stopped in Cali.. For those of us up here in Oregon, all I can say is, this is the biggest, stinkiest, ridiculous pile of dookie I have ever seen. Unfortunately, it seems there is nothing I can do. Check the thread on this at the ASA board. I posted a quote from the q&a portion of the usfs site for the ODNRA. Starting May 1, 2003, it will be illegal to have alcohol while camping int the sand anywhere in the Oregon dunes.

Then I am reading it right. Dammit :x

Designated camping spots are exempt but if the Oregon dunes are anything like our dunes, that means anything off the pads or camping loops will be no-alcohol areas. Tents, half-stuck motorhomes, this-looks-like-a-good-spot camping will suffer.

Next will be night riding throughout the dunes, not just Comp Hill

Vicki

I don't know what the big fuss is. Accept this rule quietly and they won't come back for any more restrictive rules. Give them what they want and they will go away. Don't make them angry, they will just come back later with more rediculous rules to punish us.

the tragedy is there SHOULD be areas where you can get drunk and enjoy public nudity, live bands, etc.

there should also be areas where motorized rec can be enjoyed.

have you noticed that all of the privately-run MX and off-road parks do not allow shooting or alcohol?

what I notice is the guys out riding in the desert always drink 3 or 4 beers before they hit the trails.

then they come back and drink a few more. then they go for another ride. then they build a fire and drink some more--turn up the heavy metal--burn a pipeful, then get out the semi automatics. then around midnight they go looking for things to burn.

you know I'm not making this up.

I say separate the riding from the drinking--isn't that what this law does? stay in camp and enjoy yourself. go for a hike. bay at the moon. chase your girlfriend around the desert. Have fun




http://www.rexerlive.com/shanolrg_f.html

What do you propose Jeff? Let me know so I can help out with the protests.

I have to say that sounds really gay!

The problem that Bluesky has is that he believes in the stereotypical description of an off road vehicle user. One who gets drunk off of his/her a$$, does not abide by the laws, does dope, gets naked in public, fires off weapons, etc.

Bluesky, if you would take the time to truly get to know those of us on this board, you would realize that the stereotypical description of an off road vehicle user is nothing but a farce. In fact, the members of this board greatly criticize and abomish any person or persons who display such behavior.

The great majority of members on this board believe in family, safe duning, cleaning up everything you bring in, and abiding by the laws and closures. It is awful that a few bad apples ruin the bunch. But at the same time, the bunch whole-heartedly disagree with the actions of the few bad apples.

It is truly unfortunate that you cannot see beyond your personal vendeta against off roaders (which many of us know you do indeed have a personal vendeta). If you are here to argue with the "stereotypical duner", then you might as well look elsewhere. I'm sorry, but we are the true duners who take pride in our family, friends, and sport while still showing respect for the dunes.

So you have been to the dunes and camped with people, andyou made these observations? What were the names, Place,??

YOUR A FRIGGIN LIAR BlueSky.. BS, your initials say it all. If you not lying, come and camp at wash 13.5 and see for yourself.. But you wont.

RoostKing...

come on--I read this board as well as visit and observe riders!

Who has a highball for breakfast everyday he's on vacation?

who takes off her clothes at every opportunity?

who has a beer cooler on his/her quad?

who rides a buggy because you can haul so many more ICDBs?

Why isn't alcohol allowed inthe private parks?





I don't deny that many of you here are family oriented folks--God Bless You!

I don't have a personal venedetta with anyone because we've never met.

I don't think its just the motorized vehicle people that drink. I met a lot of hikers at my AA meetings.

Andy

I haven't looked closely at the statistics so I can't say how many actual dune-related citations involve alcohol. Whether or not alcohol outside of designated camping areas is a good or bad thing is not what I find so disturbing about this whole thing.

What I object to is yet another regulation heading our way that is unnecessary if the regulations already in place are properly enforced.

For instance If the problem is people are driving while drunk, there are already regulations in place that could be used so enforce the existing regulations. Establishing an alcohol ban outside of camp won't add any bite to the bark.

It's a public relations gimmic, pure and simple.

Vicki

Ok, Bluesky, just to make things clear, this new thing is starting in Oregon, not California, so the dunes in question arent in the desert, but near the ocean. Also, not everybody camps in the "designated campsites"aka the paved campground, for a variety of reasons. Some of which I'm sure even you could understand. 1. There is a limited number of spaces available, so if you werent lucky enough to get a spot reserved, you camp in the sand. 2. Some people like a little more space(isnt that why you moved out into the country BS, so you would have a little more room)when they camp, and camping out in the sand affords a person that "space". Most of the places already have curfews so no one is allowed to ride in the dunes at night anyway. And like has already been said, there are already laws existing that cover these offenses, DUII, littering, public nudity, etc.. I dont feel that just because I camp in the sand, for whatever reason, I shouldnt be allowed to have alcohol at my campsite. I for one have never rode around setting things on fire, shot any gun, automatic or otherwise, while camping in the dunes. And I always pick up all the cans and bottles left on the ground becuase I turn them back in for the deposit to help pay for my whole trip out there!!

>:< A typical description of us by BS I see. Just because of a very few bad apples. If I recall correctly wern't some of the enviros setting SUVs ablaze with gas a little bit ago? Interesting don't you think. I guess this means all enviros are the same then. Oh and if I remember correctly this new manzanita Offroad park is including a shooting range, and how much do you want to bet they will be serving alcohol in those casinos?

And I guess all [b]HUGGERS drive a 69 VW Van, wear peace shirts, hemp sandles, and bell-bottoms. They all smoke pot, and are really in tune with nature. Hence the reason they sit around in little circles going Ommmm, Ommmm, Melloooo, before their nature hikes! Come on now, I've been to other "GREEN" sites (HIGH TIMES?) I know what's going on! 8) :unsure: :roll2:


LIVE FREE OR DIE!

My objection was to your claim that "the guys out riding in the desert always drink 3 or 4 beers before they hit the trails"...etc, etc. My point being that many of your arguments are based upon a stereotypical representation of duners. I'm sure that you are familiar with the fallacies of logic, because you are a pro at implementing them. You are the master of hasty generalization and the straw man.

And I belief you misunderstood me. I never claimed that you had a vendeta against any particular individual, but rather duners as a whole and you regulary describe duners in a fashion indicative of the stereotype presented above in order to strengthen your arguments. These are merely my observations and nothing personal. :|

What are you trying to say Tim? That because I don't have a real good proposal to counter this that I am somehow wrong for not liking it?

Is there a rule out there that you don't like?

And you know, if passed, I would respect the rule even though I hated it.

There are a lot of rules I don't like and I feel that the government makes too many laws. BUt I have to follow them too.

My point is that simply pointing problems without solutions is not helpful. I try to change laws I don't agree with by contacting my representatives.

I wonder what power we would have if a large group of people got together with the same goals to change the laws. I bet that group would be more successful then one person.

I hope thats not what the ASA Safety committee is trying to do.

I think I catch your drift Robbie... it's not always easy (or pleasant) to question authority or police our leaders, but that's exactly what we need to do in order to make sure when they speak for us they are truly speaking for us and not pursuing personal agendas.

Vicki

You sound like the type who also thinks we should give our country away....do you go to peace protests against the war to?

Most duners I know...the ones who really love the sport may drink a beer here or there, you said it yourself beer in the cooler, they arent sitting in their buggys or on their quads drinking Jack Daniels out of the bottle or any other mixed drink..IF everyone was getting plastered before during and after rides wouldnt there be alot more deaths then what there are..Most people on here go out because they love to ride, love the desert, love to hang out with there friends, Not only so they can get drunk. You can do that in your garage. But to take away someones choice as long as there of LEGAL age to drink in a PUBLIC location has got to be unconstitutional. Our tax dollars and parking fees and everything else go to maintain that land and yet more and more rights keep trying to be taken away from us. First the land we cant cross...then the hills on Holidays..then the beer...whats next? Where do you draw a line.

did you visit the link?

http://www.rexerlive.com/shanolrg_f.html

What does Bluesky do for fun? Besides whine.

BS wrote:


Hey bs you and I meet at your place, you bring the pipeful and I'll bring the semi...it could be fun

So hey BS, I have resisted responding to you for over a year
So at this time I would like you to read between the lines:








In closing I'd just like to say-

As far as I know, the ASA safety committee is against making new rules and feel that proper enforcement of existing rules, along with an education campaign, is the way to make duning safer.

I was mainly referring to changing ESA laws so we don't have to constantly fight to keep our riding areas open.

I hope your right Tim,
The info I got from Bob at the Vegas Sand show a year and a half ago, along with several "heated" e-mails from you shortly after that were enough to make me believe otherwise.

If it does happen, then I guess we'll know for sure.

Thats what the ASA safety committee line is, as far as I know.

My personal opinion may differ somewhat. I don't remember what e-mails I sent to you, but I was advocating several law changes. (i.e. making it illegal to ride in pickups offroad which the BLM implemented)

I also spent some time talking to the BLM and advocated enforcement of current laws and establishing a temporary ranger station, with construction style lights and greater manpower, at the base of Comp to avoid any closure. I also suggested thatthe BLM make a 10 yrd wide no parking zone, much like Copper canyon at Havasu, across the base of Comp to allow LEOs more access. This way, Comp could have stayed open and there could have been better control of the crowd by LEOs. This should have been tried prior to a curfew. But the Imperial County Board of Supervisors madet h e curfew, not the BLM or the ASA.

I know the ASA is against any further closure or curfew.

No, that's not strictly true.

The BOS supported the curfew, based on information they were given (one sided as it was). They did not seek it out. They asked for solutions to the constant problems and this is what they were given. No other solutions were presented.

The CORVA, ASA, SDORC, BRC, and every other organization with duning members was taken by surprise.

If the board of supervisors has a fault in this it is that it circumvented the public process, which has been my chief complaint all along. Successful or not, the end does not justify the means. Let the bad guys meet behind closed doors. The good guys should be above that.

Vicki

What happened to all the great political contacts that have been made?