What's a boat and a V8rail have in common?



























Two happiest days in a guys life, the day you buy them and and the day you sell them.

Congrats.

Does this mean he sold it?

Man, that was just brutal!

is his funco on order?

Can you tune us in?

yes Bohica
i agree
im very glad the car found a good new home so quick (btw Dumont regular )


i hope for Jon that he will be happy with a Funco

Make sure post those HP numbers for us on the new Funco too.

I hear he's just going to get a couple Rhinos.

low blow!

i hear the "brutus" runs good in those funcos

I will say this, Jon has been more than patient with everyone bagging on him.



He's a really nice guy, and it's nice to see a guy with such a great sense of humor, Lord knows this crowd is brutal.





Keep us updated with whatever you get!

I'll agree, Jon is great guy, just feel sorry he had to go thru so much with his car. He's such a standup guy, he wouldn't post about any trouble he was having between him and V8Rail.

Glad he's now able to put it all behind him.

I did happen to stumble across his product review on duneguide.com

Duneguide.com

^^^^^I agree with the 2 guy's above me^^^^^

Although I will probably regret it, I am not getting a Funco right now. I may very well get one in the future.

You could learn a lot from Funco though. Buying a sand rail isn't just about getting a product that performs well, it is about a relationship. Funco understands this and goes out of their way to support their customers and other duners. When I broke down at the EPO, Grant lent me his car to go pick up parts. Then he helped diagnose the breakdown, and stayed with me on the way out.

V8 Rail on the other hand all but abandoned me. Not only did Thomas blame blame me for the failure, but V8 Rail refused to supply any of the custom made parts that broke. I had to have a machine shop make up the special washers so I could put the car back together. I received a PM from you the other night (one of the very few times I have ever heard from you) that stated "sorry but i gave up on you long time ago". That explains a lot looking back on things. I guess that asking for support from you to fix problems I had with your product is too much of a bother. Simply unbelievable.

You have a decent concept with your front engine car, and I salute your willingness to be different. Unfortately, you have spit in the face of one of the few champions of your product. Your arrogance and lack of support is the worst I think that I have ever experienced for any product, off-road or other.

Today was a good day for me. The monkey that has been on my back for 2 1/2 years is finally gone. Although I lost a lot of money selling the rail today, I will be able to sleep at night because I was very upfront about all the problems I have had, and any issues that remain to be fixed.

Hmmm...

Jon
there is always two sides to a story

i know bohica would love to see some drama and mud throwing here but thats not my style. ...we could not get along (and it was not just our mistake)...thats all

btw bohica; the pm was a test to see how the "grapevine" works. thanks that you helped me to see things clear.

First congratulation to Danny & Dawn, the new owners. I know they will be happy with "Crazy Train". We will also go trough the whole car for them and set it up right. I know they will listen to the builder and to our R&D driver.

Jon,

I wish you good luck with your new car. And again I did not blame you, just asked three questions .....

thomas

That would be a good start on your part. Unfortunately, you never gave me that opportunity.

If you would have driven up with two rhinos at the EPO, I probably would have traded you.

Interesting topic...

First congrats to Jon. for thos ewho have never met him, he is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. I dont think Jon has an evil bone in his body. Dont get me wrong,Im not taking sides, the few time I have spoken with Thomas, I have thought very highly of him as well. Maybe the two just couldnt get along...it happens.

Im sorry to hear of the problems that Jon has had, reading about them reminds me a lot of anothe rbuilder discussed on the boards.

I gotta say, what jon says about Grant and Funco is dead on. When Jon and I were both broken down at the EPO, it was Grant who stepped up and fixed both out cars so we could get back to camp.
I have a new respect for grant and continued respect for Jon.

I hope Jon got what he needed, not in a financial way, but in peice of mind. I hope his next purchase will fullfill all his duning needs...I know for me, although my next car will be a SandCars Unlimited car, I would certainly put Funco as my number two choice.

Jon, congrats, Grant many many thanks

Hey Spooner, Is that what your going to say about me to? Because I can show you the pm where you suggest that I'm dishonest and don't pay my bills! You have slandered my name to more than one person on these boards and now the gloves are coming OFF! I told your brother today that I would not go on the boards and tell the true story of the 2yrs 9mths and 21 days I waited for my car! But after I saw the pm spooner sent to somebody on these boards, I said thats it! As a customer V-8 rail has kicked me in the balls and spit in my face for the last time! Anybody close to the story of my car knows the truth about how it all went down,many of the people on these boards were present during conversations between V-8 rail and myself.For spooner to suggest that I'm dishonest and don't pay my bill's is stupidty. To prove my point I will show the cancelled check's and dates on the payments. Let's add up the interest SPOONER on 2yrs 9mths and 21days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a balance on the car of $1330.00 and I've had the car 3 mths. There is an issue with the rear uprights on the car not working correctly. I will have these fixed and what ever the difference is it is! ( the price I was quoted to make then correct is a little more than the balance) This is all after I waited 2yrs 9mths and 21days. There is even more heartache to this story for me. The car was finally almost ready to be driven in Oct. when I drove out to Ash Fork, AZ for the SECOND time to pick up the car. I told you I needed the car for my son's b-day party which is our annual trip to Glamis, my wife was real unhappy when I spent day after day in the garage just getting the car duneable, all this on top of the 2yrs, 9 months and 21 days, this didn't allow me time to shake down the car in advance and the car fell apart in the first 5 minutes out in the dunes. CrowDog and at least 10 of the board members from these boards were present on that trip when this happened, I begged for this car ALL SUMMER LONG after waiting 2 yrs 9mths and 21 days and it wasn't even ready to drive into the trailer when I showed up (I had given these guys PLENTY of notice of what day I was coming), so I slept in the back of my truck and wrenched with you guys for 11 hours the next day just to get it out of there, you thought I was happy, but actually I was just relieved to get my car and get the he** out of there. I jumped through every hoop you threw at me and am suprised I kept my sanity. The experience with this car has made it where I don't even care to go duning right now, but maybe time will help. this whole process of this car was a complete nightmare. You guys moved from Hesperia (where I originally ordered the car) to Ash Fork, AZ you went and bought a truck to turn into a motorhome, then fixed up your place in Ash Fork all ahead of finishing my car and yet you feel like you treated me like a friend? Well where I'm from we don't treat friends like that. You guys should quit saying anything more on these boards and take a look in the mirror. I will stand behind this post and can prove all the points in it. I do believe I received a fantastic car, it just took 2 years, 9 months and 21 days off of my heart! This in not an attack on the car itself, or you personally, it's just on the way your company conducts itself. Your customer service and return communication are a joke, if you spent 1/2 as much time responding to your customers as you do on the boards talking smack, my car would have probably been done in a year. I have already taken responsibility for about 30 percent of the delay on this car due to upgrades, which still leaves a considerable amount of time left to build this car. I kept my mouth shut about all of this until Spooner went public and told people I'm dishonest and don't pay my bills. His statements could not be more untrue. My family and I will be back in the dunes one day and will do our best to forget this chapter in our life. For those who follow me in the V8 rail line waiting for a car I wish you the best of luck as I feel you will need it.
Sincerely
The Big K

Is this the same R&D driver that has a bent spindle? Pretty sad that you sent him to me looking for a replacement.

Didn't he supply the laser cut parts for the new spindle design that was supposed to be out last February? Wonder why you can't even supply your "R&D" driver with the new spindles yet.....

jon,

you are misinformed ...

thomas

I guess the shiat has hit the fan.

Message Forwarded From spooner


"people i like best ? " ...you have no idea
there are always two sides to a story

i dont want to go into too many details about big k but i woud say its fair that only honest and paying customers get customer service and respect from me. ...what a disapointment (i hear he is selling the car to a dumont regular that already owns a older V8rail )

im very glad that Jon is now Grants problem (why he didnt buy a Funco from the beginning beats me ) . im realy happy Jon`s car will go to a new home (btw also to a Dumont regular )

This is the pm spooner send about me! You guys tell me what you think he's saying? This is what I get after waiting 2yrs 9mths and 21days! Boy can I feel the love in that pm.

No disrepect to anyone in Ash Fork...I know there are two sides to every story but it all sounds sooooo faimliar...

But perhaps a name change to...

Xtreme V8 Rail Motorsports....

big k
notice; i did not go public
bohica offended me with a (now deletet) post that was not only a personal attack it was also extremely out of line for a moderator of this board.
but what realy pissed me off was that he made comments on things that he could not know by just guessing.
so i dropped that "mousetrap" PM to him to see who is buddying with who......i guess i found out .

what happened to "friends" and "the wolfpack"?

btw
nice that you left out so many things in your post
things like "dont worry about the wiring; Flashpoint will do all that" ....I ended up wiring everything (including rewiring the complete engine and your race radios)
and things like "dont worry about the engine; magnussen wil do everything"...I ended up doing everything (except bolting the SC on....at least that was already there)
there are other things we did for a "friend" but we can talk about that in privat

btw 2
you give us the "ohh...i forgot my checkbook; i will send the check as soon as im home" and then we dont hear one word from you.....not one!
if you dont tell us whats wrong we cant fix it. if you dont tell us why you dont pay we can only guess why you dont do it....plain and simple

we can go on here or take it to PM to sort this out ....your call

Wow.

I can say here that Kelly and Jon really two very VERY respectable and nice guys. I commend them 110% for NOT saying anything until now. Big K was very pleased (or so he always said) with his 1st V8Rail. I never saw his new one.

I wish you two the best when you order your new buggies. Hopefully it'll be a great experience and we will be duning with you guys very soon.

Thomas and Stephan, I am not talking smack about this. I like you guys too, but sounds like you guys need some serious lessons in the customer service department. This is a small industry, and even if this thread never happened, word travels fast. And this was just funny as hell.


I think just because you guys got burned should not stop you from going out there. Not all builders treat their customers with the run around. Hope to see ya soon Big K and Jon.

Do I watch this, the xstream thread, or the buggy crash thread, just too many choices

tom, i agree
i like to build car for friends....from now on we will do exactly that.
i never claimed that we/our cars are for every one (and i dont need/want to build one for everyone)
its simple: if you dont like us/our cars; dont buy one!

im tired of this drama

yes i have a bent spindle and i really dont want people knowing i hit 3' tall rock wall going a little to fast in the desert!!!!! what are you trying to do! tarnish my driving record! remember i sold your for you so dont be dragging me into all the drama anyway i am glad your happy about getting rid of your car. i think you made a mistake in my opinion but i had a 60 impala that i restored and i had bad luck with it and i basically gave it away.danny & dawn sure due appreciate the good deal also! good luck with what ever you get. i will see you at dumont on pres. weekend!

Nice.

Sorry about that. I owe you a

Hey, that was totally a joke...nothing serious meant. I have no reason to have bad thoughts on the guys at V8 rail...its just sad that it has come to this and it does sound so familar..and unlike the xtreme situation, I do only know one side...

Queen
yes, i agree; we (my brother and i) are just not good in the kissa** game.

bohica already told me that i never postet anything usefull on this board....oh well; it looks like if you dont agree with everybody all the time your not welcome

No one said anything about you guys not being welcome. I think you have 2 seriously unhappy customers. It has nothing to do with kissing anyone's ass at all. It has to do with how you handle your business.

tom
the extreme situation is a little different....but i know you did it as a joke

.
but what realy pissed me off was that he made comments on things that he could not know by just guessing.
so i dropped that "mousetrap" PM to him to see who is buddying with who......i guess i found out



nice that you left out so many things in your post
things like "dont worry about the wiring; Flashpoint will do all that" ....I ended up wiring everything (including rewiring the complete engine and your race radios)
and things like "dont worry about the engine; magnussen wil do everything"...I ended up doing everything (except bolting the SC on....at least that was already there)
there are other things we did for a "friend" but we can talk about that in privat

btw 2
you give us the "ohh...i forgot my checkbook; i will send the check as soon as im home" and then we dont hear one word from you.....not one!
if you dont tell us whats wrong we cant fix it. if you dont tell us why you dont pay we can only guess why you dont do it....plain and simple

we can go on here or take it to PM to sort this out ....your call
[right][snapback]1390979[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

If you think I'm the one who said things about you, guess again big boy! You better take a look around!

As far as the wiring goes NICE TRY! the wiring was included in the orignal offer (wanna see a copy of it?) I was looking to speed up the process on the car because it was already going so slow!!!!!!!!!!!and I paid for the race radio install!!!!! as I paid for everything else that was done on the car! So whats your point?


As far as forgetting my checkbook! Listen SON you could'nt pick up my checkbook! Bottem line is the balance on the car was 5000.00 You said I left and never called or anything! B.S. I paid 3670.00, of the balance within a couple of weeks(wanna see the cancelled check? the balance was to fix the car! Maybe you wanted me to bring the car back and help fix it while you worked on your truck! THERE IS NO BALANCE!!!! It will cost me more than 1330.00 to have it fixed!

As far as calling you and telling you about the problem,I did! When I called from glamis and told you the car fell apart in the first 5 min in the dunes! GET A CLUE! Yet you say you did'nt hear one word! There were board members that listened to me telling you on the phone!

Spooner, you jumped at the chance to call me dishonest and does'nt pay his bill's after only three mths! Try waiting 2yrs 9mths and 21 days!!!!!!!!

I speak the truth and you know it! You should quit digging! because your standind in deep hole already!

How easily you forget....


This fell out of

this, because all you had holding in the stub axle was a bolt tightened down on the side of the bearing.


BigK called you from Glamis and told you what happened. Did you ever call him to see if he needed help fixing the problem?

Jon,

you are again misinformed.

I called Kelly and made him a offer and he agreed to it ... but he never send me the parts like we agreed to fix it ... then today (after three months) he told me that I made him a bad deal ...

thomas

I know Jon well.....and its hard to believe he was sooooo misinformed

And bohica was just making a joke!!

I guess I know Jon better than some but, not as well as others but. . . from what I know. . . ditto that!

Wow Jon. . . we need to talk! Sorry we missed crossing paths at Glamis a few weeks back. Then again, I think I need to keep your stories (which it sounds like you have many of them) away from my Wife. I had a tough enough time talking her into this thing so, these kind of stories will not make her comfortable.

I called Tom Pro the other day. . . He said he has an 11 month back-log. With these kind of stories it isn't any wonder that the builders that have a good name have that kind of backlog. Obviously there are plenty of customers out there that are just hungry for a quality reputable builder. If you do things right you'll have them waiting 11 months for your product. (And that's telling them they'll have to wait 11 months BEFORE they place the order!)

I have no problem with a car taking a year to be built, as long as the builder is truthful about it.

In my case, I ordered my car in October 2003. I was told it would be ready in April 2004. About December, Thomas even told me that they might be able to get it done a few weeks early and deliver it at the Dumont Cleanup. I did not get the car until April 2005 - 18 months after I ordered it and 12 months behind schedule.

And from what I now know, being 12 months late is pretty good for V8 Rail standards. BigK's 2 years, 9 months and 21 days is much closer to the norm. There are many other horror stories that aren't being told, because the owners are being held hostage by V8 Rail. During the build, I learned that if you wanted your car to keep moving along, you just had to keep your mouth shut and not ask status questions or get mad at broken promises. That would just further delay work on your car. If you want your car, just don't rock the boat.

I just wish I had listened to my wife and cut my losses about 12 months into the process. I would have saved myself a lot of grief.

Wow....how did I miss this thread yesterday? Jon, congratulations on the sale of your car. I've been through a similar situation with a couple of hot rods, and I fully understand how you and Kelly are surprised you still have your sanity. My experiences were so bad, just last week I sold my last hot rod, and I don't know if I'll ever do another. Trust me, it'll take a while to get the bad taste out of your mouth. A bad experience will surely test your true devotion to the sport.

I really hate to hear this about V8 rail too. Jon seems like a very easy going person, and I'm really surprised you couldn't get along with him. I know that if it were my car that was a year late, you would absolutely hate me, as I expect anyone who takes large sums of my money to be quite accurate on production estimates, and if you don't meet those, there better be a verifiable reason (not excuse) why.

So it seems we have another "hot button" for drama in the sandrail section. I'd ask everyone who wants to post, to please remember the few board rules, and keep this discussion free of personal attacks and stick to the facts and opinions.

Spooner,
Just to let you know Bohica is not how I found out about what you were saying about me! First it was Ryan and then Jon Crowley called me yesterday and said you better look at what spooner is saying about you! Bohica never let me know what you said about me! Jon did! I stood by you for years and yes we were friends! But when I begged all summer long for my car and you worked on your truck instead that's when you ended the friendship! Why can't you just be honest with yourself????????? and besides you were worried 1330.00 for a couple of mths when you had plenty of my money for YEARS! Don't give me this crap about a mousetrap because you told Ryan I was having money problems! and were dumb enought to put it in writing to Bohica! You make me SICK! I backed you for 2YRS 9MTHS and 21DAYS! and I still did'nt talk bad about you, then you can't wait a few mths before you start talking bad about me? You also had my # to call me anytime. Calling me is what a friend does! before you say they're dishonest and don"t pay thier bills.It seems like you tell so many lies that you can't remember the truth!

Tom,

I think that summs it up pretty well. Jon did not listen to us. Give you an example:

He was at Gordons and let another builder tune his suspension. So I get a call from Jon what spring rate he has, because the car did not work at the particular whoops section and he needs softer springs. I told him springs will not help, but he could try. I told him I would go with softer damping in the coil overs.
So spring did not help much and Jon was telling me he needs to know the damping in the bypass shocks to revalve them. I told him again revalve the darn coilovers and let the bypass alone. So next call was that he dropped the bypass ONLY at King to revalve and wanted me to decide what valving he needs inside there....

just one example where I spend time for nothing...

thats why I'm happy that the car did get a good home with owners that listen to the builder (and Flyin Ryan, he helps us a lot to make the car better) and we will have that car running in no time at full potential.

Rest of this session ... I have no time for that ....There are enough smart people out there that know that there is a second side to every story

so I'm out....

From the sounds of it everyone would have made that trade.

An old 88 ezgo with bad batteries maybe, but 2 rhinos....... no way!!!


J\K- Jon your a hell of a guy and jumped right in to help me with my shock without question. Way to nice of a guy to have had to deal with all these problems. I to have had my share of builder issues in the past and I know how it can almost ruin the sport. Hopefully, you'll get back on track with something that your totally happy with and get back out there. In the mean time I'm sure Jeff will let you borrow his car anytime.


A BIG to V8 Rail, sounds like a bunch of clowns.

I guess Justin from Revenge doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to suspension tuning.

My car's suspension was so far off in the whoops that it was dangerous (just ask a few people that saw me almost swap ends going down the Gordons drags). I tried Thomas' suggestion of lessening the dampning in the rear coilovers before I tried new springs. Didn't help.