Called Crow just got off the phone.

He said to cut off the belt were it is stitched and he is sending me new lower straps with metal couplers to attach.

Not a recall from manufacturers of rails its from Crow themselves.

Crow are the ones stepping up.
Call crow for your replacement parts mine are on the way.

Just give him the color and your adress.

My guess is he saw the best builders in the industry and thought it was a pretty good idea. Glad he is stepping up as well as the builders...Maybe then the builders wont have to eat the expense...and really, it doesnt matter who stepped first..whats important is that they are stepping up.

Great for all of them to do this.

Not trying to make trouble, and it's great to see Crow stepping up...but....

So are people expected to sew the metal bits on themselves? Looking at my 5 point separates the metal "tangs" on the ends are sewn on. How are people supposed to make this change themselves?

If they're just going to loop the webbing through and then secure it with a D ring kind of setup is that really stronger? If so then why was I told last year that the bolt in style of harnesses are stronger than wrap around?

And what about length? I know the 5 point separates I ordered the shoulder harnesses are barely long enough already - and that's with them mounted about an inch from the back of my seats. There'd never be enough extra material to loop through a new end and then properly secure it with a double wrap.

Just wondering if this is really an improvement over the sewn on belts or just a quick fix that isn't as good as actually replacing the shoulder harnesses with ones designed for the proper application.

Jason, it sounds like crow is just going to replace the shoulder belts with the looping type. They probably want the others cut so they are not re-used...

They give you the lower half of the shoulder straps, from the adjuster-down. the new piece has the metal part on it.

You dont have to sew anything .
New peice from the chest buckle adjustment to the lap with metal attachements.
Thats why they ask witch color you have

Ok, that makes sense. I was just misunderstaning the description in the original post.

I believe you are supposed to cut the shoulder strap where the shoulder straps meet the belt and they will send replacement shoulder straps with the latch style, but even so, is this a good idea for someone to cut a belt? doesn't sound right to me but to each his own. I would want have the whole thing replaced.

I have a fealing they are going to be slammed with orders he didnt even ask how old they are (4 months on mine).
He said they are in the process of makeing instructions with the replacements.
He said everything just happened really fast. Doing what they can.

BTW, anyone know if this is only on 3x3's or if it also applies to 2x2's?

I run 3x3 5 point Crows with the separate shoulder straps in my Manx.

But in my rail I went with 2x2's because...well...frankly because the car is so small that 3x3's would have been wider than the seat. I also went with sewn togethers in there again because of the limited space since it's easier to put them on. (though I agonized over the decision for almost an hour going back and forth because I've always prefered the individuals.)

If you cut the belt above were they are stiched you wont hurt a thing.
Someone have a picture?

If you cut them it wont do a thing to the rest of the lap belt

Sure

You'd cut right above where the shoulder harness connects to the lapbelt (this is on my 2x2)
[attachmentid=64838]

I never noticed before but there's a LOT more stitching holding the metal tangs on in the separates compared to the sewn togethers. It's half covered by the adjusting strap in this shot but you can see the stitching goes back and forth in a zig zag a many times compared to the simple x in a box stitching on the sewn togethers.
[attachmentid=64839]

on the cutting part, all your doing is cutting the old shoulder harness part off the lap part so you shouldnt be compromising the integety of the lap belts in any way i would think.

What did you say when you called Crow? "Hey, I heard that you are recalling some of your belts" ?

[attachmentid=64842]

I just said Im shure Im caller 401 on the seat belt issue.
He said he would be happy to send out the parts to fix the problem.
In no way did he say he was replaceing the whole belt.
Then again he never said there was a problem with the sewn in ones either.

Interesting-I have the DJ's that are sewn in. They have way more stitching then is shown in Jason's. It is the up/down zigzag thru the whole sewn in section.

I just called also. He is sending me out the portions to fix my belts today. I actually prefer the shoulder unstiched..

My five are in the mail

I just called and talked to John. Really nice guy and very helpful. Nice to see a company stand behind their product like this.

Mine are coming on the big brown truck monday!

Call me crazy, but it just seems like crow would have stepped up and also given us new lap belts...I know cutting the belts doesnt lessen the integrity of the belts, but if we as duners would have done this (cut of the sewn in's and replace it with the latch kind) to one of their belts and it failed I highly doubt they would have stood behind the product. Also, is this temporary untill the can replace the lap belts also.
What do you guys think??
Thoughts

kinda feel the same way! I may just replace crows with something else! I need some good assurance this isn't just a "guess this might work solution!"

Crow 714-879-5970

I dont think we should look at it like Crow was totally at fault.
I think there were more issues involved then just the belts.
Crow is doing what they can for now.
I dont thik there saying it was there fault so lets fix the problem there just steping up to stop any injuries. Im shure there doing testing already on these belts but in the mean time there just sending out what they can so we are safe.

I gotta give *top* props to Crow for not burying their heads in the sand (pardon the pun) like so many other companies would have done. Regardless of liability issues, it's almost unheard-of for a mfr of *anything* to make this kind of offer without a lawsuit or court order. Especially without any hard data (that I've seen) that would indicate that their product failed under normal use without any other outside factors (weather/exposure, installation, abrasion, improper usage, etc).

I have the five-piece 3" harnesses in my car, so if I'm understanding this thread i don't have to replace the shoulder harnesses? They are reaching the 2-year mark so I guess that's my off-season project.

Edited 'cuz I felt like it.

vmaxup great post! this is what i was waiting for. mine will be here on monday.

as for the so called best builders stepping up and replacing them, thats great , but i bielieve CROW is the one stepping up.

I totally agree that crow might have not been totally at fault and I sure hope they are testing their product due to the recent failures.

If the builder is replacing the whole belt than I believe they are still eating something sense Crow is just sending them the lower portion of the shoulder staps. Especially if the belts are the "y" type that are being replaced with individual straps. Lets not discount anyone for offering to help people out.

By the way, I have the 5 point with individual straps and everyone that gets in my car complains about how they are a bitch to put together. I even thought about getting the sewn in "y" style to make things easier. Looks like I made the right choice to stay with the 5-point. People are just going to have to suck it up and learn how to latch a belt.

My 4 replacements are going out today. Crow was very nice and helpful. I think we will all keep a close eye on this deal and see how it works out. It sure would be interesting to see some numbers on testing with certain speed crashes and weight ratings on the occupants.

mine are in the mail, easiest thing i ever did.

Way to go Crow. I called too and I'm getting my next week. Now I just need to reread this post to really understand what I need to do to fix the problem.

Cutting part of my seatbelt is not something I can just go and do...if you know what I mean. Hopefully we will see some detailed instructions on how to do it.

Who's going first?

My 5 are in the mail, or at least on a very long "to do" list.
Just installed the belts last Friday.
It applies to both 2" and 3".

My 4 are in the mail next week. Easiest phone call I ever made. Way to step up Crow.. They must be stressing on this somewhat. They never even asked the dates on them just what style and what color.

We have been working with Crow ourselves.

Any Suspensions Unlimited Customers.. feel free to contact us regarding this matter.

Call our shop @ 909-230-9797

Thanks,

I applaud Crow 100% for stepping up to the plate! I called, they were VERY nice, asked the size and color and are shipping Monday. What more can ANYONE ask for. As for cutting, you are cutting the old shoulder strap from the lap-belt, you are NOT changing a thing with the lap-belt. There was NOT a failure with the lap-belt. The new strap supplied is from the shoulder adjusters to a “D” ring that you will slide over the metal latch on your lap-belt. The “Hook-Up” order would be, left shoulder, crouch strap (you are running these right?) the right shoulder strap and then close the latch on the lap-belt.
May I also recommend that if you are not using them to PLEASE wear arm restraints. The hand you save will be your own. Pull your belts tight and make sure your passengers are tight as well.
Instructions will be supplied.
Be safe and dune smart.

Somebody please do a step by step tutorial before I do this please.

Easy michael its no big deal if you read the post.
I havent done it yet but its not like your doing sergury.
It will be easy just make shure you do one belt at a time so you put the straps back in the shoulder adjustment correctly.
I think there sending paperwork.
The scarey part is dont cut your finger off when you cut your old straps off. or worse your seats

I called this afternoon they will be shipped(all 5) on Monday. Way to go Crow Enterprise, My next belts will be purchased from Crow Enterprise.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that there are this many people that scrimped on safety belts.

Shame on all of you guys. Now step back and examine the rest of the safety equipment you should've bought.

Fire system?
Arm restraints?
Roll bar padding?
Spill proof battery or enclosure?
Splash guard on fuel filler?
Roll over protection/vent hose on fuel tank vent?

Carl

I for one was not educated on this matter and I had no idea I was "skimping" on anything. I have always had the sewn in belts and knew nothing about any safety issue. It was never a matter of cost for me. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't have realized many of the safety issues that are out there. For you to assume that people are "skimping" may not be entirely accurate. Just my thoughts.

Carl this had nothing to do with money.
Crow made these belts for the customers who wanted an easy way to get in and out of the cars.
I cant believe that after all this hipe this is your answer go back and re read some posts would ya

When I said, "Scrimping," everyone assumed I was talking about money. Scrimping could be on level of safety, with the money issue notwithstanding.

Hell for all I know, your builder charged you the same amount for a lesser belt.

It's about not doing your home work on the very most important item in your car. Some prolly spent more time color coordinating thie seats to the paint job. Or the anodizing of their shocks. All safety equipment suppliers have on-line catalogs.

That "comfort of entering and exiting the car," excuse. That's just plain BS.

Try getting in from a wheelchair next time. That would be a pain in the A$$!

Honestly, I didn't know they sold those belts! I would think that most here would want the full tilt latch and link of the Big Boys that race.
Even my kids GOKART has a full 3" 5 PT system. No "Scrimping" On them FROM ME!!!


Face it, this topic gave those with these belts a reprieve, a free pass. Use it to study your safety situation in YOUR car.

It's not my answer, it's a second chance for YOU to take a good look at safety.

It's easier to point fingers.

It's not about ME!! That's too simple. I read all the posts on this and all subjects about safety. I'm very familiar with safety off-road.

Carl

All Im saying is you made it out that were all stupid for buying these belts.
And we all scrimped on safety.
Your Wrong
We bought them because we liked them we thought they were safe and maybe they still are.

Just because there are some failures dose not mean they are a cheap belt. Im shure everyone that has them loves them untill this happened. I felt I liked them better for ease of use and Im shure everyone else did also.

But thats ok Carl were all stupid for buying a reputable companys product.
And now that there was a problem we all scrimped as you say.

So Im taking my belts out and getting a new paint job and a wrist restraints
because I dont care about my safety
Come on Carl

I didn't know that there were others out there with the same priorities as me.

Im not sure if it made a difference or not but Crow is sending me new lap belts and shoulder belts also. Just the center part. Not the whole belt. So I wont have anything to cut off. My belts are brand new so maybe that is why.. I also never realized that a sewn in shoulder was not as safe. I thought I had upgraded everything on my belts (cam locks, pads) but I didnt know about this. So who makes the Safest belt on the market???

What about he company's for making a mickey mouse style belt.
DON~~~

What about the company's for making a mickey moust style belt.
DON~~~[/b]
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and now a Mickey Mouse Fix! cutting belts! someone posted earlier that if we would have cut the belts to do the same thing and someone got hurt we would be called Idiots for cutting them! exchange the whole belt....!

[quote=Carl P,Feb 25 2006, 07:49 AM

[QUOTE]

Honestly, I didn't know they sold those belts! I would think that most here would want the full tilt latch and link of the Big Boys that race.
Even my kids GOKART has a full 3" 5 PT system. No "Scrimping" On them FROM ME!!!


Carl
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I'm surprised that someone as educated as you on this matter was unaware that these belts were even sold. It doesn't take much research to see that many people sell and use these belts. I did research many safety issues when I bought my car, things like front brakes, extra bracing, B-pillars , crotch straps,etc.... but I never heard of any safety issues with the sewn in belts. Maybe someday we can all be the natural genius that you are Sorry, you struck a nerve when you insinuated that we might have been aware that there was a safety issue with these belts, but chose to put our family at risk anyways.

[quote=donparscale,Feb 25 2006, 10:30 AM]
[/quote]

What about he company's for making a mickey moust style belt.
DON~~~
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Don, most every company makes a line of lower requirement, more affordable stuff.

Not everybody buys it. They evaluate their needs and buy accordingly.

Bell now makes some of their helmets in R.O.C. Non SNELL, D.O.T. helmets.

Simpson make a budget line of belts too. Just like the sewn together ones.

Ford makes the FOCUS and Chevy makes the AVEO.


I didn't point any fingers. I just stated that I was [SIZE=7]SURPRISED.

Now I'm the bad guy.

I never insinuated that " There was a safety issue." But it does appear to be less than effective on the surface. I would think that people that are knowledgeable about the sport to demand the very best in "Shock absorbers and Bead Locks" to do the same on the safety belts. Sorry, I made a mistake.

I believe CROW to have equal quality safety equipment with any other high end brand. I bought CROW myself. I bought the CROW latch and link 5 point belts with ARM restraints. I evaluated my needs, did some research and bought accordingly.


Carl