Of course Sandzilla was the one that got me thinking a lot about this and I think nitrous actually makes a lot of sense for a buggy. Especially for someone like myself where I spend 96.9% of my time duning and maybe 3% of the time climbing a hill like Olds or China, and 0.1% of my time at the drags.

That being said if I built a new car that was decently fast, let's say just fast enough to pull the front wheels when I want to, but then had a nitrous kit on top of that for the times when I want to race someone, it seems to make more sense than twin turbo$ or huge cubic inche$.

Thoughts?

sounds logical to me!

its a problem finder (hit the bottle find the week link)

Thats why I had mine tabbed for the bottle !!. Your freinds will never know when that 50-75 hp shot will kick in .

That does make sense.


read my sig...

The bottle gets addicting. I've got nitrous on my quad and I love standing on the button.

Nitrous systems have had some major face lifts over the last couple years in regards to safety, i think for your application a NO2 bottle would be great. The power is there when you need it, and tucked away when you don't. I've done some research on the nitrous systems and just finished an article on Turbos, Blowers and Nitrous systems for the last issue.

The only problem with the Nitrous Oxide system; it runs out.

Also, make sure that if you're going to run the system that your engine builder knows this pre-build so they can be prepared. A dual mapping system will have to be added to your ECU so that when the Shot is applied your mapping changes accordingly.

Have fun!

I say... push the button and hold on...... DO IT.....

Nitrous is fun!!

Only 50-75 Kinda weak

No substitute for cubic inches.

I like it, build your engine up to the level you want for duning, then kick in an extra 100hp or so for the hill or the drags.


Just make sure it can take the extra power, or get a nitrous controller for a progressive shot.

NOS gives me the giggles... I ran an ODDFIRE 4.3 for a few years, it had a 200 hp shot on it. I ran hundreds of pounds of nos through it with no problems. (to the motor).. I loved it I could launch on the bottle and the car would carry the front tires for about 100 feet. And if I was loosing a race by just a little I could flip the switch and hit the button... The only down fall is refilling. Soo. If you need a re-fill staion I have one for sale. It runs off air. With two mother bottles.. I had it mounted in my trailer.. People would always ask "What will you do when it runs out??" Go fill it!!! If the motor is setup correctly, (similiar to a blower motor) you can feed it all the nos you want. JMO

My new car im doing NOS just for the added kick at the drags , My motor will be only 500 hp LS2 then a 150 shot of nos for fun , Iam setting up my Haltech computer system to control the NOS for saftey , i can make it come on any rpm any load and retard timing when system is on , It will come on when the TPS hits 98%

My car is being fabbed with a 10lb bottle mount as well, but with a 150 shot. As long as you know that things CAN go wrong (and when they do, really wrong) nitrous is great.

Yeah but cubic inches plus nitrous...

I think it is a good idea! I have a hard time with the fact that it runs out (even though it can be refilled). I think it would not be as bad as a street car, but what about that time when you want to hit the button because you have found somebody you want to race, and the bottle is not turned on (or worse off, you ran out, and didn't know it)? That's what I hate about it!

It's a great idea! I've read up on "dry systems" too. More simple and if you're jetted rich or don't want the extra plumbing, it's a viable cheap option. But not good for lots HP. Good for a bike.

But it can fry pistons before you can back off if not dialed in. And you won't know if it's really dialed in on the first set. Or so I've been told...

Carl

My nephew has it.

Bottle always seems to be empty. Must be defective.

The only thing that will out run a small nitrous motor is a bigger nitrous motor...

More later,

Zilla

Nitrous motor are going to impact the dunes in a big way. Power on command with out all the baggage. Will it replace the turbo and supercharger motors? Nope! Can it rule the dunes and be an absolute terror at the drags? You betcha!

I run a tickle kit, (150hp) on a mild LS1 engine in a big 5 seater car and it has surprised many people at the drags... Then I turn off the bottle and go duning with instant throttle response and none of the added hassle of force feed systems.

The turbo Subie engine is the perfect application for mid to light weight cars but if you own a heavy 4/5 seater car, displacement is the only way to go and nitrous on top of that will rock your world!

Come next season, I'll have engines with 300 to 600 HP nitrous kits running around the dunes. Add 750 plus naturally aspirated HP and (427 to 454 ci) to that and you can see what kinda power I'm talking about. It will be a hill shooter's drag racer's dream engine. And after you're through playing there, just turn off the bottle and hit the bowels... To me it's the best of both worlds.

JMHO,

Zilla

Howcome my bottle has a hose going directly to my mouth?

oops...

I'll never run a "dry" system... One hiccup in your fuel system (anywhere) and it's all over.

Zilla

I would think that a wet system with addition fuel injectors could get complicated.
Most fuel injection systems when properly designed shouldn't have the correct cabablities to add enough fuel for 150 or more horsepower, then to add a seperate injector driver and additional injectors?

Sounds complicated for the sand, but sure certainly doable for you experts
Can I drive

Very simplified, the computer and existing fuel system provides the fuel and "extra" fuel needed for the engine and nitrous system. If the fuel pump goes bad you cut all the fuel supply to both systems. Safty pressure systems will take care of most issues but...<(I just don't like it)

If you have a injector go bad the nitrous will keep flowing to that cyclender and it's by-by piston. At least with the wet system (with it's on fuel system) you will still have fuel flowing to all cylinders. This is very important with "direct port" nitrous systems on engines running sequential fuel injection.

Zilla

Another thing with dry is the injs need to be sized for the required fuel needed while spraying and if the amount of nitrous inj is significant enough they will be too big when not using nitrous.

Tis true. And when you monkey with the fuel pressure for the engine the correct air/fuel ratio becomes critical when adding nitrous.

And with the rise and fall of bottle pressure with the weather, it becomes almost impossible to finely tune any dry system because the ECU mapping can't account for the change... It might run perfect during the day, (when the outside temp in high)< High bottle pressure....but will run rich (when the outside temp falls)< low bottle pressure... With a stand alone "wet" set system you can add or cut fuel accordingly, with no adverse effects to the engines fuel supply. <(Tuning)

Zilla

what about the carb set up are they any good

^^^^^^They work great just make sure that the fuel system (and engine)can handle the hp you expect.

nos is fun.I had in in my boat too.Thinking about adding a small unit to my hi jumper buggy vw powered.Nothing big just enough.maybe 50hp

Whatever you do make sure the fuel system is in good working order if in doubt use a separate fuel pump just for the NOS.Keep it small and simple it will last even with a stock motor 125 hp and under on a v8 IMO.

There are a few ways to rig the NOS systems now i like the button though but you can also set up to hit at full throttle without the use of a button too.

Fun stuff for sure i just hate to hear naysayers say that stuff will blow your motor but himself has never used it but says a friend of a friends cousin or whatever they use said he blew his motor,or i blew mine up,etc,etc.

Air+Fuel=Power

I was talking about using additional fuel injectors and a seperate driver, with a seperate driver to precharge the air as the nos is injected.
I am guessing most wet systems only use jets to add fuel?

That would be a little tricky with nitrous. Some old school guys use extra injectors as an enrichment system for turbo and supercharger engines but I've never seen it done for a nitrous application... There are much easier ways to do it.

JMHO,

Zilla

I noticed.
DON~~~

Could you map the bottle temp. and pressure?
DON~~~

Bottle temp= pressure and it falls and rises with the delta temperature and with nitrous flow. I could map it with a pressure switch but it will probably spike when you're on an off the switch. Kinda like a air nozzle on an air tank... Pressure drops when you blow but spikes for a second when you stop. But it's an interesting idea.

Zilla

Would be kinda cool to have a nitrous controller with built in support for fuel injector drivers and sensors for air temp, bottle pressure, and so forth, along with a progressive nos driver to save the trannys?

Wet systems are very easy to control. Fuel, bottle pressure <(controlled bottle heaters) RPM activated, pre- rev limiter deactivated, fuel pressure safty switch and a progressive controller will be on every nitrous engine I build...It will not be an "option."

Zilla

Keep in mind that most all DRY systems are for a very minor boost in power. There's LOTS of bikes that run them sucessfully. 1000's of them. It's an inexpensive system to mildly boost output.

How much? Some Busa sites are claiming 50 hp for their system. Safely done.

That's not bad for under $500. You just can't sell it as a mega system or expect too much from it.

But it won't kill your engine. MIS-using it will.

If you don't want to blow up your engine, leave it on the trailer!
Carl

Well then step up to a closed loop system and let it make the adjustments FOR YOU!!
The O2 can sense a lean condition and then step up the DC to compensate (up to full DC of course).

Pretty simple, but can't be done with a simple NON closed loop capable ECU. Like a MEFI.

You might not even need a fuel system add-on with a NOS system. It' could all be done with an addidtional injector on the same rail and a two step driver system.

But agian, it takes more programming than most builders want to deal with.


CArl

Yes. Integrated lookups. But you'll need two more sensors. And a better regulator system. Then it's all gas at the nozzle. Not good.

Carl

Like I said before... Why make a simple thing complicated? Go wet with no regrets.

A simpler method would be to regulate the bottle pressure down to say 200psi, and size the jets accordingly.

You can get a lot of shots before the bottle gets down to that point, not much nitrous left by then.

At 200 psi the nitrous would be worthless. <(Not enough pressure to be effective.) 950 psi is normal operating pressure so you can see the spread you are talking about...


No need to create a better mouse trap folks... Nitrous has been around for years with great success. You should see the kits the Pro Mod guys run... Simply amazing.


Zilla

Do the progressive controllers drive the fuel solenoids as well?

Yes sir... It ramps them up to full open at WOT.

I think it was invented for high altitude aircraft. You want to see some wild stuff back in the day some teams tried to use nitrous with nitro in AAfuel dragsters. One
AAfuel car at Beeline during the winter nationals blew the engine clean out of the car and was laying behind the car on the drag strip.
DON~~~

Here's my Zilla 427 savings account.

Anyone have some empty coffee cans they can donate to the cause?

Yep! It was used it on fighter planes during WWII as a "get outta Dodge" button.