RANGERS AND RIDERS GEAR UP FOR OHV SOUND TESTING PROGRAM

EL CENTRO, CA -- Federal rangers and key off-highway vehicle (OHV) leaders gathered on April 2/3 at the Bureau of Land Management's (BLM) El Centro Field Office for a two day sound testing workshop. The goal of the conference was to train the attendees to conduct sound testing in order to comply with the new 2003 California 96 decibel A-scale (dBA) limit for dirt-bikes and all-terrain vehicles. The previous sound limit was 101 dBA.

The BLM officers and other interests where taught the physics of sound by Dr. Rob Harrision. Harrison, often referred to as the "Father of the 20-inch Sound Test", explained the science of the test procedure approved by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE J1287 JUL98).

Keith Ginn, a Forest Service OHV specialist with Trails Unlimited, taught the field application of the 20-inch test. He was assisted by Don Amador, the western representative for the BlueRibbon Coalition.

The students were taught how to identify a legal spark arrestor and that it must always have the make and model number on the muffler. In most cases it will also have "USDA Forestry Approved Spark Arrestor" stamped or permanently affixed to the unit. Also, each OHV has a specific rpm at which it is sound tested. This information is found in the Motorcycle Industry Council's "Stationary Sound Test Manual."

The BLM rangers practiced using their newly purchased Quest 1400 sound meters and "vibrating tachometers" on various OHVs. Amador supplied a KTM 400 EXC and Yamaha WR426 for the practice testing session. Different brands of spark arrestors were changed on the bikes so the event participants could have a variety of bikes, products, and dBA levels to evaluate.

Amador stated, "It was great to see the BLM and local representatives from AMA District 38 and the American Sand Association working together so the riding public can become educated about the new 96 dBA sound limit."

"The BLM should be commended for hosting this workshop and for their continued commitment to pro-active management of OHV recreation in the desert and throughout California," Amador concludes.

WTF???????

Vor

Wonder how I am gonna get around this one. This is crap!

What happened to this???


Why is the ASA supporting this? WHEN did they start supporting this...

WTF???

Vor

Someone was saying they were doing that in Oregon. No way in ISDRA. ASA must be involved cause of OR.

I am a member of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, and Don Amador is GREAT about keeping their members informed, which I'm sure is why heard about it so soon.

I don't know if it's a matter of having a choice of supporting this or not... it's here, like or not (say, wasn't this one of those dandy new rules blooming out of the OHMVR?).

So it's here, like it or not. What are you suggesting we do about it? (and by the way, there is no sarcasm here, I'm serious... WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???)

Vicki

Well, it's fairly obvious what the ASA is going to do about it..

ROLL OVER LIKE A SPAYED COCKER SPANIEL!!!

This is Bull crap. 90% of all OHV's in Glamis will not pass this restriction. All VW buggies, All V8 Buggies, Most all 2-strokes and most 4-strokes will not pass this.

There is absolutely no reason for sound restrictions at Glamis, one of the MAIN reasons people with HIGH POWERED vehicles go there. There isn't a residential distrect for 30 miles...

What POSSIBLE reason could there be for this?

BTW: Why is it they have money to buy these new testing machines but not enough money for new campgrounds or all of these toilets people are begging for? Or better trash pickup, water on wash road etc!!!

Well, here it is, folks... another reason that ANY LEO at Glamis can PULL YOU OVER for NO FREAKING REASON WHATSOEVER...

Bend over, here it comes!!!

Get out the checkbooks.

Vor

guess it's time to install a secret kill switch . oh you want me to start my bike so you can test it no problemo,Hmmmmmmm it don't want to start now isn't that strange it was running when you got here but now it doesn't want to start guess Im going to have't sit here for awhile .

Anyone have a source or author for this new article? I'd just like to know where it came from.

This is a press release that was put out by the Blue Ribbon Coalition. The entire press release, with pictures, can be found at http://www.sharetrails.org/

Vicki

-deleted-

I should point out that Guy Crest and others seem to be caught by suprise by this also...
They are saying that this quote may be out of context so in fairness we should wait until some more facts come in before we (I) jump all over the ASA...
Hey, what can I say? It's a reflex!!!

Seriously, though... I'm trying to get some facts here... don't send your nasty letters to the ASA just yet...

My appologies for flying off the handle.

Vor

Also, after re-reading the article there is no mention of the ISDRA, specificly. Only that the meeting was at the El Centro Field Office.

I would be very interested in hearing an official response from BLM, El Centro.

Vor

Here's what Jerry Seaver had to say about this on the ASA Board:



As for Mark's comments it's been addressed MANY times in the past even recently on this very board. Lawsuits aren't cheap and don't work quick but they are happening. Do you think the CBD got the dunes closed overnight? It took years of planning and plenty of patience with the courts - unfortunatly the law currently makes it MUCH easier to get law closed down with no proof of the necessity than it does to open it back up even with the "cause" of closing it debunked. But I guess it's just "the duner way" to shoot the messenger and the ones fighting to help.

Oh, did Mark say something???

Vor

I had to zip me lippers...grrrrr


BTW just got off the phone with the BLM....no restrictions at ISDRA for now ...but they will have a sound testing area setup at the ranger station next year ...but they say they wont be enforcing just providing testing...probably happen the following year

Well, I'd sure like to see something in writing.

I'm just worried about being set up for a fall. What I don't want to see happen is another PMV-type lawsuit due to lack of compliance.

Vicki

WARNING - SARCASM AHEAD

Why what are the going to do? Take away the OHMVR Funding?

none

A point...
From the tone of this thread, and the one on the ASA's board it's obvious that this is a VERY controversial issue.

There is CERTAINLY no concensus on how to deal with this new policy.

While I can empathize with people who don't like particularly noisy vehicles I certainly don't feel sorry for them.
What did they expect at Glamis? A bunch of electric cars going Buzz buzz???

As for the ASA, I'm fairly fed up with them at this point. I tried to get this topic going over there and all I got was condencention.

What can we do about it???
IGNORE IT!...
Take our tickets to the Judge...
Stand up and say...

"You can get anything you want, at Alices Restaraunt."
And then sit back down...

That's it. That's all we can do about it.

In otherwords, we're screwed...
Again

Vor

I hear from people who are tired of the super noisy toys, the toys built by people who "go out of their way to be obnoxious" (to quote one complainer). On the other hand, I hear from people who can't believe noise restrictions would be in place at an area like Glamis, people who accept Glamis for what it is and don't want the restriction.

I don't know exactly how I feel about it but that doesn't matter so much any more. This is something that will have to be discussed at the DUNERS meetings. If a majority of members get up in arms about this, we'll do what we can to have it changed.

Can there be a change? Of course. You have to whisper in a library but not on a playground. There is a difference between Glamis (or a dry lake bed even) than the state vehicle parks (that comes as a surprise to people outside sand recreation). So maybe exceptions can be made for the accepted noise levels per location. The law was created by someone, which means an amendment can be created by someone.

If the people of Glamis are against it, something needs to be done.

Vicki

What's next? Lights out at 10?

OH GREAT, GOTTA MAKE SURE MY BIKE IS QUIET, WHY??? SO I CAN HEAR ALL THE GODDAM WHINERS!! oh so sorry, i cant hear over all the BULLSHIAT COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH

The only ASA response I saw on the ASA BBS was Jerry Seaver's, which Jason posted above.



I don't think you (or anyone) should be fed up with the ASA at this point. IMHO, The condescension you got was from posters on the ASA BBS NOT the ASA. There is a difference. For what its worth, things did go south on that thread fairly quickly and didn't get any better.

Yeah yeah! thats the ticket!

then they will tow your shiat away

We are in the fricken desert for crying out loud!!? who cares how loud someones ride is ?
Kalipornia is ridiculous
we are 20 miles from nowhere?

I have yet to hear a vehicle at Glamis that is as loud/noisy as one of those frieght trains with a couple square wheels doing 60mph headed towards Niland! Let's try and get a muffler installed on the train tracks!

what a great argument!

NO SH!T!

I hadn't even thought of the noise from the train. That's an excellent point.

From what I understand it's supposed to be a compromise so that things like dirtbike tracks located near houses can remain operating. But is that appropriate in a place like Glamis or a dry lake bed? Maybe the law should be amended to allow exceptions.

How important is this? Only important enough to complain about or is it something worth changing?

I read somewhere (I can't recall the exact source right now) that the ASA is a stakeholder on the OHMVR roundtable. My understanding is that they are under the same agreement that the rest of the stakeholders are under, in that they have agreed to a hands off approach to the OHMVR commission and commissioners. Thus, they have to roll over like a spayed cocker spaniel or they will lose their spot on the stakeholder roundtable.

So Jeff. If you'd rather NOT have the ASA get involved in a way that can increase their ability to get informed and help influence change then what is your solution to the problem.

What should the ASA do? Stick it's head back in the sand like most duners and then cry unfair when they're blindsided yet again by something they could have seen coming if they had bothered to look?

So where did I say the ASA shouldn't be involved? I was responding to Brian as to what I thought was the reason for the ASA taking the course it has.

"roll over like a spayed cocker spaniel" sure sounds like something you would not approve of. I doubt that's how you describe things you like seeing happen.

It sure sounds like a comment ment to imply that getting a seat on the stakeholders table was NOT a good thing and that it will utilmately just force us to comply with whatever is forced down our throats.

So instead I ask - what should be done?

Those were Brian's words not mine.

And is there a problem with people knowing (or asking/speculating in my case) what the trade-off was for getting that seat on the OHMVR stakeholder rountable?

Don't tell me I already know:

Blah, blah blah...the ASA saved the dunes... blah, blah, blah.
Blah, blah blah...the ASA is the only organization... blah, blah, blah.
Blah, blah blah...your part of the ASA or part of the problem... blah, blah, blah.

When that came up it was a very sore subject on the DUNERS board...

http://www.hostboard.com/duners/ubbthreads...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Every organization that is on the stakeholders group is under that same agreement, basically agreeing that none of them will pursue legal or legislative action against the OHMVR/OHMVR commissioners, no matter what they do.

Is agreeing to such a thing a bad thing? The jury is still out on that one. Some members of representative organizations are very supportive of being part of such an agreement. Some are not. I would have to assume that any organization that is part of the stakeholders group and subsequently a part of that agreement are participating with the full knowledge and consent of their members.

I know recently Roy Denner, President of the Off Road Business Association, created quite a bruhaha when he wrote an article publicly condemning the way the OHMVR Commission has abused their power. He is also helping to push through some legislation that will alter the makeup of the OHMVR. He started taking heat from leaders of the OHV organizations that are stakeholders, who reminded him of the agreement. But ORBA is not on the stakeholder's group and therefore not subject to the agreement.

To answer Jason's question as to what should be done, perhaps Roy Denner has some good answers. The article is excellent and the legislation is promising.

Vicki

I'm more concerned with the added "PC" this gives the long arm of the "Gestasapo"! But I've seen and commented on many issues like this, just another nail in the coffin! But at least our ears will be saved, thank god. I was so worried. God bless the "Gestasapo"

Okay, so it's really only annoying enough to complain about it but not annoying enough to actually DO something about it?

Does anyone really believe that this isn't going to be arbitrarily enforced?

if a rider on a 2 stroke is out in the middle of the dunes, wide open throttle but noone else is around to hear it... does it make a sound??

How can we do anything about it now that "we" have agreed not to question the authorities?

hehehe

That's like the old question "If a man is speaking and there's no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?" :wink:

Vicki

So Jeff what you're saying is that getting involved in the group that helps make these decisions does more harm than good?

You'd rather have us sit on the outside and BCM about what's happening than sit on a panel that actually has SOME say in what happens?

It's not like this is a group of elected people who have to live up to any kind accountability to the public - you can't vote against their decisions and you can't vote them out. The best you can do is try to find out what they're doing and steer it in the right direction.

But I guess the old ways of keeping our heads burried in the sand and then complaning when things happen is so much better. Thats never resulted in any land being closed or new rules being forced on us has it? Oh wait.....

But now that we are starting to get involved to try and fight against these things those with their heads still firmly planted in the sand (or elsewhere) are complaining that we are actually trying to find out what's happening before it happens so we can prepare and fight it when it's easy (Before it's written in stone) instead of banging our heads against the wall fighting the hard way and achieving little.

I'll ask again - instead of getting on the roundtable what should the ASA do? Without a stake in the process how are they to know what is happening and be properly prepared to fight it?

Now you're getting nasty. WE didn't agree to diddly shiat. >:<

*sigh* okay, I'm better now.

Laws are changed all the time. It takes work, but it happens all the time.

But hey, I'm just one person and I'm not taking this fight on all by myself.

Anyway, for all I know and from what I've read elsewhere this limitation may actually be acceptable right? Who am I to muck up a welcome change?

Vicki

Your right Jason a mussled and debarked Cocker Spaniel is much better than a spayed Cocker Spaniel. My bad.

I have read this thread and the one on the other bbs...I am still looking for the sentence that says the ASA condones the sound level restrictions.
VOR, I usually read your posts and think they are well....reasonable. IMHO you came out swinging against the ASA on this topic and acted surprised when they swung back

Yeah,
Since Guy took it as "swinging" it sure looked that way after he posted his responses. I have made several attempts in this and the other thread to "pull back" and to try to "soften" my apparant original "tone", to no avail, it seems.

At this point I am going to chalk up Guy's response to a simple misunderstanding. That is not the point of the thread anyway.

To be clear... The original article mentioned the ASA as "working with" the BLM and others in the education process concerning this new bill.
The ASA has stated that they did not know about this "workshop" and that the quote was at the very least, exagerated.
There have also been comments to the effect that the ASA will probably not take a stand on this issue do to the devisivness of it.

My stand is straigtforward.
I feel that any extra enforcement of "sound issues" at the ISDRA are PUNITIVE in nature and set a very dangerous precident for future restrictions on OHV modifications.
I will attempt to counteract any "support" of this issue by the ASA, if they decide to give it, (which they have not, at this point).
I feel that the proper response by the ASA or any other orginized dune group should be to oppose any plan to "gear up" for sound enforcement at the ISDRA and I will do my best to make sure my opinion is heard loud and clear.
This issue is every bit as important as the de-listing of the PMV or the possibilities of visitor limits at the ISDRA. It will affect each and every one who owns an OHV and will act to limit our enjoyment of the dunes as drasticly.
This is my opinion. I certainly understand that others do not feel the same. This issue will most likely divide OHV users right down the middle.

Vor

For those wondering what 96db is I did a little testing with my meter today:

My 1989 Dodge (Flowtech headers and Dual Flowmasters) reads 84db with the meter just above my front tire reading just engine noise. And 94db 24" away from the exhaust with the sensor pointed across the exhaust instead of right into it.

My 1997 Ducati (Bone Stock) reads 94db 24" from the side of the engine and 98db 14" back from the exhaust.

All measurements taken at idle since I have no idea what the official RPM to read an '89 Dodge 360 or a '97 Moster 750 are.

One thing to note is that these meters are VERY sensitive to how they are aimed. A VERY small change in where you're taking the reading can create a VERY large change in the reading. This is part of why the testing procedure is so important to understand. Without knowing the exact details about how they're tought to aim the sensor it's impossible to duplicate the readings.

Few other tidbits.

My TV at normal listening volume playing an NCAA game: 75db

The sound of the fans from the computers in my office while I'm sitting here: 60db

My (35lb) dog barking: 105db

2,000 db registered while listening to Voice, Guy, and Jason yelling at each other...


DOH!!!

Jason, I will confirm but if I remember the SAE papers right the test is at 2K RPM.
There are also proper distance and angle of testing in relation to the exhaust outlet.

They will have a vibration excited tach for determining RPM

an interesting explanation of decibels including levels of intensity and the scale used to measure it.

http://www.jetnoise.org/newpage17.htm


BTW it's brouhaha