Full Version: Environmentalism Strikes Again
I find it amazing what we are willing to sacrifice upon the altar of environmentalism.
1. some chemicals poison our environment
2. NASA updated the materials used on the shuttle to protect us from poisonous chemicals
3. The updated materials may have caused the shuttle to explode
4. Conclusion??
2. NASA updated the materials used on the shuttle to protect us from poisonous chemicals
3. The updated materials may have caused the shuttle to explode
4. Conclusion??
1. some chemicals poison our environment
1a. True
2. NASA updated the materials used on the shuttle to protect us from poisonous chemicals.
2a. NASA was forced to update the materials used on the shuttle to comply with EPA regulations...the alleged "damage " by the materials in question to the environment has never been established.
3. The updated materials may have caused the shuttle to explode
3a. That's what they say...
4. Conclusion??
4a. Even you can figure this out...actual lives were lost based on flawed reasoning...does this make you feel better?
1a. True
2. NASA updated the materials used on the shuttle to protect us from poisonous chemicals.
2a. NASA was forced to update the materials used on the shuttle to comply with EPA regulations...the alleged "damage " by the materials in question to the environment has never been established.
3. The updated materials may have caused the shuttle to explode
3a. That's what they say...
4. Conclusion??
4a. Even you can figure this out...actual lives were lost based on flawed reasoning...does this make you feel better?
As long as a weed didnt die, Blue is happy at the loss of human life.
RoostKing...
RoostKing...
[quote]As long as a weed didnt die, Blue is happy at the loss of human life.
RoostKing... [/quote]
now you really can't say what makes me happy--that's my private area of preference. Stick to what you know and let me be the one to say things about the way I feel.
RoostKing... [/quote]
now you really can't say what makes me happy--that's my private area of preference. Stick to what you know and let me be the one to say things about the way I feel.
I just wish these agencies and the anti-access groups could be held accountable for "deliverables." Like when a lawsuit is filed using the Endangered Species Act, for instance, the people filing the suit should have to prove to the court that they have actually recovered a species through their actions before they recover their costs and fees.
Best-guess science is just wrong.
Vicki
Best-guess science is just wrong.
Vicki
this was the paragraph in the linked article that mentioned the envronment.
[quote]NASA investigators seven years ago noted that the damage followed changes in the methods of "foaming" the external tank – changes mandated by concerns about being "environmentally friendly."
"During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank," said the report. "Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of 'foaming' the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to the protective tiles of the orbiter." [/quote]
here's a related news article:
http://www.sepp.org/weekwas/2003/Feb8.htm
[quote] Questions Arise Over Ingredient of Columbia Shuttle Insulation
By ANDREW C. REVKIN (NYT 2/6/03)
Questions were raised yesterday about whether the foam that came off the shuttle Columbia's external fuel tank was a problem-plagued formulation that several years ago replaced the original insulating foam used on the shuttle fleet.
NASA had sought a replacement because the original foam, called BX-250, contained a chemical, CFC-11, that was to be banned in 2001 because it harmed the ozone layer. The ban on chlorofluorocarbons, or CFC's, was required under an international treaty, the Montreal Protocol, and the Clean Air Act.
Last night, some NASA officials and Republican Congressional staff members said that conservative and business groups were preparing to say that the shuttle disaster was caused by the ban, because the replacement foam was flawed.
But NASA officials said there was no possible relationship, for several reasons. The foam was looking less and less like the cause, they said, and they still use it on the shuttle fleet. They said the piece that broke off and hit the wing of the Columbia was PROBABLY THE OLD FOAM, NOT THE NEW, MORE TROUBLE-PLAGUED MATERIAL.
When it had trouble with the replacement foam, NASA applied to the Environmental Protection Agency for an exemption from the CFC ban, saying, "no viable alternative has been identified." It gained the exemption in 2001, and still uses that foam in a few spots on the shuttle fleet.
Last year, NASA officials said, the agency shifted to a new formulation on most of the external tank, avoiding harm to the ozone layer and THE PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED WITH INTERMEDIATE FOAM FORMULAS.
Parker Counts, the senior systems manager for the shuttle program at NASA headquarters who previously supervised work on the external tank, said that more than 90 percent of the body of the external tank is now sprayed with the new foam in ways that avoid past problems.
He added that it was "highly probable" in any case that the foam that hit the left wing on this launching was some of the original formula.
Mr. Counts echoed other NASA officials in saying that it seemed clear now that the source of the fatal fault lay elsewhere.
[/quote]
[quote]NASA investigators seven years ago noted that the damage followed changes in the methods of "foaming" the external tank – changes mandated by concerns about being "environmentally friendly."
"During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank," said the report. "Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of 'foaming' the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to the protective tiles of the orbiter." [/quote]
here's a related news article:
http://www.sepp.org/weekwas/2003/Feb8.htm
[quote] Questions Arise Over Ingredient of Columbia Shuttle Insulation
By ANDREW C. REVKIN (NYT 2/6/03)
Questions were raised yesterday about whether the foam that came off the shuttle Columbia's external fuel tank was a problem-plagued formulation that several years ago replaced the original insulating foam used on the shuttle fleet.
NASA had sought a replacement because the original foam, called BX-250, contained a chemical, CFC-11, that was to be banned in 2001 because it harmed the ozone layer. The ban on chlorofluorocarbons, or CFC's, was required under an international treaty, the Montreal Protocol, and the Clean Air Act.
Last night, some NASA officials and Republican Congressional staff members said that conservative and business groups were preparing to say that the shuttle disaster was caused by the ban, because the replacement foam was flawed.
But NASA officials said there was no possible relationship, for several reasons. The foam was looking less and less like the cause, they said, and they still use it on the shuttle fleet. They said the piece that broke off and hit the wing of the Columbia was PROBABLY THE OLD FOAM, NOT THE NEW, MORE TROUBLE-PLAGUED MATERIAL.
When it had trouble with the replacement foam, NASA applied to the Environmental Protection Agency for an exemption from the CFC ban, saying, "no viable alternative has been identified." It gained the exemption in 2001, and still uses that foam in a few spots on the shuttle fleet.
Last year, NASA officials said, the agency shifted to a new formulation on most of the external tank, avoiding harm to the ozone layer and THE PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED WITH INTERMEDIATE FOAM FORMULAS.
Parker Counts, the senior systems manager for the shuttle program at NASA headquarters who previously supervised work on the external tank, said that more than 90 percent of the body of the external tank is now sprayed with the new foam in ways that avoid past problems.
He added that it was "highly probable" in any case that the foam that hit the left wing on this launching was some of the original formula.
Mr. Counts echoed other NASA officials in saying that it seemed clear now that the source of the fatal fault lay elsewhere.
[/quote]
The theory of the hole in the ozone layer being caused by HCFCs was put forth by an out of work electrical engineer who was funded by Dupont chemical. Shock of all shocks, they hold the patent for the replacement chemicals.
I wish I could pull of a scam that huge.
I wish I could pull of a scam that huge.
And now for the weather! A idiot front has rolled thru and left a wake frustration. I for one was glad to be inside! **** sky's suck! :x Pray for rain! :cheese:
Ah, here we go again:
[quote]I'm sure others have caught the pattern by now...
The Troll disappears for a short time and when it returns it is much more lucid. Sentences gel better, some semblence of a thought process can be gleened from its posts. (my theory is the absence is caused by adjustments to medication or possibly electric shock).
But after just a short time, whatever magic was worked in its absence starts to wear off. It becomes increasingly more hostile, baiting its traps with stronger insults.
Just when you're sure it's about to go too far and do something that will get it banished it *poof* disappears again for a brief respite.
And the pattern repeats. [/quote]
Vicki
[quote]I'm sure others have caught the pattern by now...
The Troll disappears for a short time and when it returns it is much more lucid. Sentences gel better, some semblence of a thought process can be gleened from its posts. (my theory is the absence is caused by adjustments to medication or possibly electric shock).
But after just a short time, whatever magic was worked in its absence starts to wear off. It becomes increasingly more hostile, baiting its traps with stronger insults.
Just when you're sure it's about to go too far and do something that will get it banished it *poof* disappears again for a brief respite.
And the pattern repeats. [/quote]
Vicki
So Vicki, how's the weather? :wink: 
:cheese:
:cheese:
[quote]And now for the weather! A idiot front has rolled thru and left a wake frustration. I for one was glad to be inside! ****
:bandit:
:bandit:
[quote]The theory of the hole in the ozone layer being caused by HCFCs was put forth by an out of work electrical engineer who was funded by Dupont chemical.[/quote]if he was funded he wasn't out of work was he?
you mean to say that a world trade protocol was put in place by the untested and unproven theory put forward by one man?
doesn't sound plausible to me
[quote]I wish I could pull of a scam that huge. [/quote]
from what I've read of your views backing serious uncontrolled impacts to our environment done in the name of profit for buggy manufacturers--I think you're practicing now to pull off a scam of equal outrage
you mean to say that a world trade protocol was put in place by the untested and unproven theory put forward by one man?
doesn't sound plausible to me
[quote]I wish I could pull of a scam that huge. [/quote]
from what I've read of your views backing serious uncontrolled impacts to our environment done in the name of profit for buggy manufacturers--I think you're practicing now to pull off a scam of equal outrage
[quote]So Vicki, how's the weather? :wink: :cheese:[/quote]
Joe, the weather is great! Okay, so I woke up to clouds and drove to work under sprinkles. Some people would complain about that.
But the way I see it, for every cold dreary day we suffer through, our dune season is extended that much further. Heck yeah, I'll trade the gloom any ol' day if it means I can visit Glamis comfortably in May
Looks like we'll continue the tradition we started last year... Osborn for Memorial Day.
Vicki
:cheese:[/quote]
Joe, the weather is great! Okay, so I woke up to clouds and drove to work under sprinkles. Some people would complain about that.
But the way I see it, for every cold dreary day we suffer through, our dune season is extended that much further. Heck yeah, I'll trade the gloom any ol' day if it means I can visit Glamis comfortably in May
Looks like we'll continue the tradition we started last year... Osborn for Memorial Day.
Vicki
Glad to hear that there was no **** sky this morning! Makes for a great day! Gotta love that extra dune time! :cheese: :cheese:
[quote]As long as a weed didnt die, Blue is happy at the loss of human life.
RoostKing...
now you really can't say what makes me happy--that's my private area of preference. Stick to what you know and let me be the one to say things about the way I feel. [/quote] Bluesky
Notice he didnt disagree.
RoostKing...
RoostKing...
now you really can't say what makes me happy--that's my private area of preference. Stick to what you know and let me be the one to say things about the way I feel. [/quote] Bluesky
Notice he didnt disagree.
RoostKing...
So it looks like blue doesn't like the collatoral damage insofar as it doesn't make him happy. But he doesn't get too bunged up about it either. So I guess to him, it is just the cost of doing business.
Now, I don't want to go off on a tangent here but let me tell you about the troll:
When The troll is challenged, he either denies everything or claims that his words were taken out of context and that his enemies are plotting against him. To get right down to it, I can barely contain myself from going into a laughing fit when I see one of these irritable sociopaths. What's my problem, then? Allow me to present it in the form of a question: When he looks in the mirror in the morning, does The troll see more than the same, tactless face that all militant, frightful traitors share? Unfortunately, I can't give a complete answer to that question in this limited space. But I can tell you that The troll is not just stupid. He is unbelievably, astronomically stupid. Of course, it's not quite that simple. While there is inevitable overlap at the edges of political movements, I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that dastardly conspiracy theorists with stronger voices than minds would revert to whiney behavior.
Faith is harder to shake than knowledge, love succumbs less to change than respect, hate is more enduring than aversion, and The troll's cohorts are nothing more than contemptible, silly troublemakers. In view of that, it is not surprising that I want to put an end to gloomy propagandism. I want to do this not because I need to tack another line onto my résumé, but because if I said that violence and prejudice are funny, I'd be a liar. But I'd be being thoroughly honest if I said that he is out to abandon the idea of universal principles and focus illegitimately on the particular. And when we play his game, we become accomplices. With this in mind, I must establish a supportive -- rather than an intimidating -- atmosphere for offering public comment. The troll's practices always follow the same pattern. He puts the desired twist on the actual facts, ignores inconvenient facts, and invents as many new "facts" as necessary to convince us that he never engages in haughty, abominable, or imprudent politics.
The troll says that everything is environmental doom and gloom. That is the most despicable lie I have ever heard in my entire life. Not only does he wish his cohorts to seize control over where we eat, sleep, socialize, and associate with others, but he then commands his intimates, "Go, and do thou likewise." What if we collectively just told The troll's worshippers, "Sure, go ahead and feed blind hatred. Have fun!"? That would not be just a trajedy; it would distort the facts. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to our ideas while refraining from attacks on our person or our intelligence. Haven’t we gotten enough of that already from The troll.
Now, I don't want to go off on a tangent here but let me tell you about the troll:
When The troll is challenged, he either denies everything or claims that his words were taken out of context and that his enemies are plotting against him. To get right down to it, I can barely contain myself from going into a laughing fit when I see one of these irritable sociopaths. What's my problem, then? Allow me to present it in the form of a question: When he looks in the mirror in the morning, does The troll see more than the same, tactless face that all militant, frightful traitors share? Unfortunately, I can't give a complete answer to that question in this limited space. But I can tell you that The troll is not just stupid. He is unbelievably, astronomically stupid. Of course, it's not quite that simple. While there is inevitable overlap at the edges of political movements, I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that dastardly conspiracy theorists with stronger voices than minds would revert to whiney behavior.
Faith is harder to shake than knowledge, love succumbs less to change than respect, hate is more enduring than aversion, and The troll's cohorts are nothing more than contemptible, silly troublemakers. In view of that, it is not surprising that I want to put an end to gloomy propagandism. I want to do this not because I need to tack another line onto my résumé, but because if I said that violence and prejudice are funny, I'd be a liar. But I'd be being thoroughly honest if I said that he is out to abandon the idea of universal principles and focus illegitimately on the particular. And when we play his game, we become accomplices. With this in mind, I must establish a supportive -- rather than an intimidating -- atmosphere for offering public comment. The troll's practices always follow the same pattern. He puts the desired twist on the actual facts, ignores inconvenient facts, and invents as many new "facts" as necessary to convince us that he never engages in haughty, abominable, or imprudent politics.
The troll says that everything is environmental doom and gloom. That is the most despicable lie I have ever heard in my entire life. Not only does he wish his cohorts to seize control over where we eat, sleep, socialize, and associate with others, but he then commands his intimates, "Go, and do thou likewise." What if we collectively just told The troll's worshippers, "Sure, go ahead and feed blind hatred. Have fun!"? That would not be just a trajedy; it would distort the facts. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to our ideas while refraining from attacks on our person or our intelligence. Haven’t we gotten enough of that already from The troll.
looks like a random letter generator 8)
Excellent post Jeff.
Awfully glad you're on the side of the good guys
Vicki
Awfully glad you're on the side of the good guys
Vicki
[quote]Haven’t we gotten enough of that already from The troll. [/quote]
Hey Jet! How's the "weather"! :wink:
Hey Jet! How's the "weather"! :wink:
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