People who play outside, whether it's at a park, on public lands, skateboarding down the street, biking along a river trail, whatever, are constantly being harassed by those who only do their recreating along the aisles of a museum or from behind a computer monitor.
For a long time now we've wondered what to call the people who are slowly and deliberately closing us off from public lands, boisterous play, risky recreation.
We mistakenly refer to them as environmentalists, because they use an environmental mask to perform their dastardly deeds.
But they're not environmentalists. These same people who are systematically shutting down outdoor recreation do nothing to save the environment, a particular species, or even to improve water or air quality. The end results of their actions don't concern them... only the money and power they derive by taking those actions.
I know some true environmentalists personally and I find it terribly insulting that these good people are lumped in with the likes of Daniel Patterson and Blue Sky.
Everytime we publicly state we're fighting this environmental organization or that environmental cause we lose support. We need to start calling it like it is and to stop helping these idiots take more of what we have.
I've started calling them anti-access people, anti-access organizations, anti-access crowds. That's what they are. They are not saving trees, birds, flowers, PMV, owls, or anything. They are removing all human traces from our lands including humans on horseback. They are anti-access, not anti-smog.
DUNERS is heading to Sacramento on Monday. If someone can come up with a better description for these "people" please let me know.
Vicki
Full Version: An insult to environmentalists
environmentalists are not the ones in it for the money. The active workers in the ASA are closely linked to off-road businesses. And why not? It's their livelihood that's affected!
Off-road rec is out of control and has negatively impacted the lands of the entire Southwest. I heard a dirt-bike rider state the other night, "I've never seen a tortoise in the desert". The statement illustrated the opposite of his intent.
[quote]People who play outside, whether it's at a park, on public lands, skateboarding down the street, biking along a river trail, whatever, are constantly being harassed by those who only do their recreating along the aisles of a museum or from behind a computer monitor.[/quote]
that's a false generalization. I never see anyone complaining about baseball games, tennis, etc. Skateboarding in parking lots or sidewalks can be a nuisance. In Santa Barbara they built a huge skateboard park RIGHT ON THE BEACH next to the pier so riders would stay off the sidewalks. You still see riders on the sidewalks, but now they're subject to a big fine if caught.
I guess vicky is trying to muster the troops to contribute to her trip to Sacto to lobby our representatives to give her group permission to continue to impact the public's lands with tracks and effects that will last for decades, if not forever.
Good luck. Most of the OHV recreationists I have met are hedonists who love to play but many probably don't even vote.
Off-road rec is out of control and has negatively impacted the lands of the entire Southwest. I heard a dirt-bike rider state the other night, "I've never seen a tortoise in the desert". The statement illustrated the opposite of his intent.
[quote]People who play outside, whether it's at a park, on public lands, skateboarding down the street, biking along a river trail, whatever, are constantly being harassed by those who only do their recreating along the aisles of a museum or from behind a computer monitor.[/quote]
that's a false generalization. I never see anyone complaining about baseball games, tennis, etc. Skateboarding in parking lots or sidewalks can be a nuisance. In Santa Barbara they built a huge skateboard park RIGHT ON THE BEACH next to the pier so riders would stay off the sidewalks. You still see riders on the sidewalks, but now they're subject to a big fine if caught.
I guess vicky is trying to muster the troops to contribute to her trip to Sacto to lobby our representatives to give her group permission to continue to impact the public's lands with tracks and effects that will last for decades, if not forever.
Good luck. Most of the OHV recreationists I have met are hedonists who love to play but many probably don't even vote.
It's been a fortnight since belching scissors cut v-shaped frames. Hark!
It's baaaaaaaaack.
[quote]I'm sure others have caught the pattern by now...
The Troll disappears for a short time and when it returns it is much more lucid. Sentences gel better, some semblence of a thought process can be gleened from its posts. (my theory is the absence is caused by adjustments to medication or possibly electric shock).
But after just a short time, whatever magic was worked in its absence starts to wear off. It becomes increasingly more hostile, baiting its traps with stronger insults.
Just when you're sure it's about to go too far and do something that will get it banished it *poof* disappears again for a brief respite.
And the pattern repeats. [/quote]
Getting a little more testy earlier than usual, but still the same ol' troll.
[quote]I'm sure others have caught the pattern by now...
The Troll disappears for a short time and when it returns it is much more lucid. Sentences gel better, some semblence of a thought process can be gleened from its posts. (my theory is the absence is caused by adjustments to medication or possibly electric shock).
But after just a short time, whatever magic was worked in its absence starts to wear off. It becomes increasingly more hostile, baiting its traps with stronger insults.
Just when you're sure it's about to go too far and do something that will get it banished it *poof* disappears again for a brief respite.
And the pattern repeats. [/quote]
Getting a little more testy earlier than usual, but still the same ol' troll.
The pink frog beat the red cat soundly about the ears...
Damn, the weather is beautiful here today
Julie
Damn, the weather is beautiful here today
Julie
Redsky. I noticed you have a picture of a Joshua Tree. (I believe). Did you drive a VEHICLE into the habitat of that tree? How much emessions did you deposit into that eco-system? How much soil compaction did you create by walking over the soil of that tree? I'm sure just your presence alone interfered with the hunting or sleeping of some creature nearby.
Those trees are just as rare as your precious PMV. Maybe that section of desert should be off limits to destroyers such as yourself.
Those trees are just as rare as your precious PMV. Maybe that section of desert should be off limits to destroyers such as yourself.
hehehe Julie
Dam the weather is awesome right now!!!!! :cheese: 
:wink:
:wink:
I don't know what's more annoying, Blueskys comments or this Bull Sh!t about the weather.
[quote]Redsky. I noticed you have a picture of a Joshua Tree. (I believe). Did you drive a VEHICLE into the habitat of that tree?[/quote]
no
[quote]Those trees are just as rare as your precious PMV. Maybe that section of desert should be off limits to destroyers[/quote]
those trees grow over much of the Mojave Desert. many of them are dying. They are supposedly "protected", but the people in charge if protecting them--the BLM--allow movie companies and off-roaders to cut them down. (I have personally witnessed and documented this and tried without success to interest the BLM in my findings).
the PMV, on the other hand exists ONLY IN THE DUNES--300,000 acres versus some 10,000,000 acres of Joshua Tree habitat. According to the ASA biologist there are only 80,000 PMV alive today. Your comparison is weak.
However, your prescription that the desert should be protected from destroyers is well advised. Let's start with the obvious destroyers first OK?
no
[quote]Those trees are just as rare as your precious PMV. Maybe that section of desert should be off limits to destroyers[/quote]
those trees grow over much of the Mojave Desert. many of them are dying. They are supposedly "protected", but the people in charge if protecting them--the BLM--allow movie companies and off-roaders to cut them down. (I have personally witnessed and documented this and tried without success to interest the BLM in my findings).
the PMV, on the other hand exists ONLY IN THE DUNES--300,000 acres versus some 10,000,000 acres of Joshua Tree habitat. According to the ASA biologist there are only 80,000 PMV alive today. Your comparison is weak.
However, your prescription that the desert should be protected from destroyers is well advised. Let's start with the obvious destroyers first OK?
You walked from your house into the desert to photograph?
Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? Fresh wood burns real good! Or did he just want a speed bump in the middle of the desert?
Here is a deal. You can have the Mojave and I can have Imperial Sand Dunes. You can make sure the BLM doesn't cut down trees, :roll: and I will personally attend to each and every PMV.
Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? Fresh wood burns real good! Or did he just want a speed bump in the middle of the desert?
Here is a deal. You can have the Mojave and I can have Imperial Sand Dunes. You can make sure the BLM doesn't cut down trees, :roll: and I will personally attend to each and every PMV.
[quote]You walked from your house into the desert to photograph?
Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? Fresh wood burns real good! Or did he just want a speed bump in the middle of the desert?
Here is a deal. You can have the Mojave and I can have Imperial Sand Dunes. You can make sure the BLM doesn't cut down trees, :roll: and I will personally attend to each and every PMV.[/quote]
Plus the weather in the Imperial Sand Dunes is much better than the Mojave. Good call Bansh. :wink:
Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? Fresh wood burns real good! Or did he just want a speed bump in the middle of the desert?
Here is a deal. You can have the Mojave and I can have Imperial Sand Dunes. You can make sure the BLM doesn't cut down trees, :roll: and I will personally attend to each and every PMV.[/quote]
Plus the weather in the Imperial Sand Dunes is much better than the Mojave. Good call Bansh. :wink:
Rubber wiil personally attend to each and every Brown Trout in the canal. I hear Off Roaders have have been over breeding them!
I hear Off Roaders have have been over breeding them!
[quote]Here is a deal. You can have the Mojave and I can have Imperial Sand Dunes. You can make sure the BLM doesn't cut down trees, :roll: and I will personally attend to each and every PMV.[/quote]
bansh,
there is a problem >:< :X:
I would make a deal to give them Imperial Sand Dunes when I get Kelso back :twisted:
bansh,
there is a problem >:< :X:
I would make a deal to give them Imperial Sand Dunes when I get Kelso back :twisted:
And Voilá, Therein lies one of the TRUE differences of opinion between our sides...
The Environmentalists (Anti-Access groups) wish to contain all robust activity inside of controlled areas and to keep them out of uncontrolled areas...
The OHV'ers (Pro-Access groups) wish to contain the less robust hikers and zero-impact people in managed areas and to retain access to the larger, uncontrolled areas.
Since the areas of open access are so small compared to the areas of closed access then I pretty much can't blame the (Pro-Access groups) for fighting tooth and nail to keep what's left.
If Bluesky had his way all motorized activity would be contained/regulated/limited and he would have free-reign across vast expanses of wilderness. Cities would be limited on how large they can spread and highways would be underground. His way of thinking says that only the priveledged few should be allowed access to these vast areas of land and that access should be regulated by the Government using HIS guidelines.
This is exemplefied by his example of the skate park on the boardwalk. It seems perfectly acceptable to "contain" the skaters inside of a controlled area and to refuse them access to the greater area. He doesn't even see the problem. He doesn't understand why skaters are refusing to be locked up inside of the controlled area.
Vor
The Environmentalists (Anti-Access groups) wish to contain all robust activity inside of controlled areas and to keep them out of uncontrolled areas...
The OHV'ers (Pro-Access groups) wish to contain the less robust hikers and zero-impact people in managed areas and to retain access to the larger, uncontrolled areas.
Since the areas of open access are so small compared to the areas of closed access then I pretty much can't blame the (Pro-Access groups) for fighting tooth and nail to keep what's left.
If Bluesky had his way all motorized activity would be contained/regulated/limited and he would have free-reign across vast expanses of wilderness. Cities would be limited on how large they can spread and highways would be underground. His way of thinking says that only the priveledged few should be allowed access to these vast areas of land and that access should be regulated by the Government using HIS guidelines.
This is exemplefied by his example of the skate park on the boardwalk. It seems perfectly acceptable to "contain" the skaters inside of a controlled area and to refuse them access to the greater area. He doesn't even see the problem. He doesn't understand why skaters are refusing to be locked up inside of the controlled area.
Vor
The Anti-Access groups tend to make many assumptions concerning environmental impacts and the need for environmental protection.
They assume that Bio-Diversity is of upmost concern, to the point that the extinction of one single species could cause catastrophic results. They fail to take into consideration that the extinction of one species may make room for another, more important species, or that other species may flourish even more if a species were to go extinct or that human action in an area may cause one species to change into another, better species.
They assume that Off-Road vehicle activity is inherently damaging to the environment. They fail to take into consideration that the OHV may actually help species to proliferate or that the OHV may cause a species to evolve into another, more robust or more important species, or that the OHV may have extremely benificial effects on human nature or cause erosion that is benificial to the environment.
They assume that closing a legal riding area will help bring about the protection of certain species. They fail to take into consideration that closing the open areas may cause more illegal riding, inturn causing even more devistating damage to the environment.
They seem to assume that if they simply make something against the law that everything will be honkey-dory.
I think Prohibition proved that theory wrong.
It is not good enough to simply "make something illegal". You must work within the guidelines of the human condition. To do otherwise is simply delusional.
Vor
They assume that Bio-Diversity is of upmost concern, to the point that the extinction of one single species could cause catastrophic results. They fail to take into consideration that the extinction of one species may make room for another, more important species, or that other species may flourish even more if a species were to go extinct or that human action in an area may cause one species to change into another, better species.
They assume that Off-Road vehicle activity is inherently damaging to the environment. They fail to take into consideration that the OHV may actually help species to proliferate or that the OHV may cause a species to evolve into another, more robust or more important species, or that the OHV may have extremely benificial effects on human nature or cause erosion that is benificial to the environment.
They assume that closing a legal riding area will help bring about the protection of certain species. They fail to take into consideration that closing the open areas may cause more illegal riding, inturn causing even more devistating damage to the environment.
They seem to assume that if they simply make something against the law that everything will be honkey-dory.
I think Prohibition proved that theory wrong.
It is not good enough to simply "make something illegal". You must work within the guidelines of the human condition. To do otherwise is simply delusional.
Vor
[quote]It is not good enough to simply "make something illegal". You must work within the guidelines of the human condition. To do otherwise is simply delusional.[/quote]
That's because the human condition is what they worry about the least! :x
That's because the human condition is what they worry about the least! :x
[quote]You walked from your house into the desert to photograph? [/quote]
I found that icon of a joshua tree by searching online
[quote]Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? [/quote]
exactly--have you seen/done this?
[quote]If Bluesky had his way all motorized activity would be contained/regulated/limited and he would have free-reign across vast expanses of wilderness. [/quote]
I don't say what vor wants--please don't say what bluesky wants--that's my job.
[quote] His way of thinking says that only the priveledged few should be allowed access to these vast areas of land[/quote]
you got that backwards. In my view, lands should be open for hiking access--the cheapest recreation possible. In your view, you need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy a vehicle to enjoy the land--so which group is more privileged?
[quote]This is exemplefied by his example of the skate park on the boardwalk. It seems perfectly acceptable to "contain" the skaters inside of a controlled area and to refuse them access to the greater area. [/quote]
so in your view skaters should be allowed to ride on the sidewalk with the aged, infirm, babies in carriages etc?
[quote]He doesn't even see the problem. He doesn't understand why skaters are refusing to be locked up inside of the controlled area. [/quote]
I understand why. they're selfish kids who don't know any better. They'll steal the radio out of your jeep too if you give them a chance--I've seen it happen. It's a subculture based on self-gratification and the theater of conspicuous consumption. Kids don't respect the role models presented to them by today's adults, so they look up to the kids 5 years older than they themselves are and imitate their actions.
[quote]They fail to take into consideration that the extinction of one species may make room for another, more important species, or that other species may flourish even more if a species were to go extinct or that human action in an area may cause one species to change into another, better species.[/quote]
is this a real possibility? has it happened before? have you read about this? are you interested and informed in the study of evolutionary science and the relationship with biodiversity? Or are you just spouting off today's "common sense" rhetoric in order to gain a little more time for you to ride your vehicle in our earth's diminishing natural areas?
[quote]I think Prohibition proved that theory wrong.
It is not good enough to simply "make something illegal". You must work within the guidelines of the human condition. To do otherwise is simply delusional. [/quote]
I see you're also a student of history and human social mores. Likening illegal off-roading to Prohibition may be valid. Can you make a case for this comparison?
I found that icon of a joshua tree by searching online
[quote]Why would an off roader cut down a tree? For firewood? [/quote]
exactly--have you seen/done this?
[quote]If Bluesky had his way all motorized activity would be contained/regulated/limited and he would have free-reign across vast expanses of wilderness. [/quote]
I don't say what vor wants--please don't say what bluesky wants--that's my job.
[quote] His way of thinking says that only the priveledged few should be allowed access to these vast areas of land[/quote]
you got that backwards. In my view, lands should be open for hiking access--the cheapest recreation possible. In your view, you need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy a vehicle to enjoy the land--so which group is more privileged?
[quote]This is exemplefied by his example of the skate park on the boardwalk. It seems perfectly acceptable to "contain" the skaters inside of a controlled area and to refuse them access to the greater area. [/quote]
so in your view skaters should be allowed to ride on the sidewalk with the aged, infirm, babies in carriages etc?
[quote]He doesn't even see the problem. He doesn't understand why skaters are refusing to be locked up inside of the controlled area. [/quote]
I understand why. they're selfish kids who don't know any better. They'll steal the radio out of your jeep too if you give them a chance--I've seen it happen. It's a subculture based on self-gratification and the theater of conspicuous consumption. Kids don't respect the role models presented to them by today's adults, so they look up to the kids 5 years older than they themselves are and imitate their actions.
[quote]They fail to take into consideration that the extinction of one species may make room for another, more important species, or that other species may flourish even more if a species were to go extinct or that human action in an area may cause one species to change into another, better species.[/quote]
is this a real possibility? has it happened before? have you read about this? are you interested and informed in the study of evolutionary science and the relationship with biodiversity? Or are you just spouting off today's "common sense" rhetoric in order to gain a little more time for you to ride your vehicle in our earth's diminishing natural areas?
[quote]I think Prohibition proved that theory wrong.
It is not good enough to simply "make something illegal". You must work within the guidelines of the human condition. To do otherwise is simply delusional. [/quote]
I see you're also a student of history and human social mores. Likening illegal off-roading to Prohibition may be valid. Can you make a case for this comparison?
I most humbly and sincerely say thank you once again to the GlamisDunes resident Troll for so eloquently proving my point.
Vicki
Vicki
So you have seen a guy on a motorcycle ride out with a chainsaw, cut down a Joshua Tree, buck it up, load it onto his back, return to camp and burn it wet!
Yea, I do it all the time. :roll:
Yea, I do it all the time. :roll:
Bansh you left out the part where you lift your quad over the fence north of 78 to get to the trees :roll:
[quote]So you have seen a guy on a motorcycle ride out with a chainsaw, cut down a Joshua Tree, buck it up, load it onto his back, return to camp and burn it wet! [/quote]
I've seen where film crews chainsawed some Joshuas.
the off-roaders that burned the joshua just pulled it down.
I've seen where film crews chainsawed some Joshuas.
the off-roaders that burned the joshua just pulled it down.
So are you gonna start picketing MGM? Get off our backs about Movie people cutting down trees. That has nothing to do with us!
So some off roaders did stupid sh!t. Do you really want to start lumping a whole group of people due to the actions of a few? I think you know where that could end up. I know of a lot of certain kinds of people who commit a lot of crimes. May I lump all those people together?
So some off roaders did stupid sh!t. Do you really want to start lumping a whole group of people due to the actions of a few? I think you know where that could end up. I know of a lot of certain kinds of people who commit a lot of crimes. May I lump all those people together?
[quote]So are you gonna start picketing MGM?[/quote]
paramount
[quote]Get off our backs about Movie people cutting down trees. That has nothing to do with us! [/quote]
you don't like joshua trees either?
[quote]So some off roaders did stupid sh!t. [/quote]
you've seen it too
[quote] Do you really want to start lumping a whole group of people due to the actions of a few?[/quote]
it 's a large percentage. Whose duty is it to educate off-roaders about their responsibilties?
paramount
[quote]Get off our backs about Movie people cutting down trees. That has nothing to do with us! [/quote]
you don't like joshua trees either?
[quote]So some off roaders did stupid sh!t. [/quote]
you've seen it too
[quote] Do you really want to start lumping a whole group of people due to the actions of a few?[/quote]
it 's a large percentage. Whose duty is it to educate off-roaders about their responsibilties?
same old troll lure
Truth be told Blu
Mother Earth has sustained and will outlive any and all terrestrial parasites?
now and forever.
Mother Earth has sustained and will outlive any and all terrestrial parasites?
now and forever.
[quote]same old troll lure[/quote]
so true!
so true!
[quote]Mother Earth has sustained and will outlive any and all terrestrial parasites?
now and forever. [/quote]
terrestrial parasites--is this your definition of humans?
If so, that would explain your disregard for us and your contributing to the wasting of the ecosystem that sustains us.
now and forever. [/quote]
terrestrial parasites--is this your definition of humans?
If so, that would explain your disregard for us and your contributing to the wasting of the ecosystem that sustains us.
[quote]
terrestrial parasites--is this your definition of humans?[/quote]
Wouldnt you agree?
[quote]If so, that would explain your disregard for us and your contributing to the wasting of the ecosystem that sustains us.[/quote]
Where do I exhibit? disregard?" Is that your synopses.
Where do you come to the conclusion that I am "wasting"?
Its obvious to me? your trying to bolster your way of thinking?
Isnt mankind inherently self serving and parasitic?
terrestrial parasites--is this your definition of humans?[/quote]
Wouldnt you agree?
[quote]If so, that would explain your disregard for us and your contributing to the wasting of the ecosystem that sustains us.[/quote]
Where do I exhibit? disregard?" Is that your synopses.
Where do you come to the conclusion that I am "wasting"?
Its obvious to me? your trying to bolster your way of thinking?
Isnt mankind inherently self serving and parasitic?
[quote]Bansh you left out the part where you lift your quad over the fence north of 78 to get to the trees[/quote]
And you didn't tell us what the weather was like while you were doing it! Unfortunatly it seems to be getting ****er all the time with your help! :roll: Oh well? To each there own! :ohwell:
And you didn't tell us what the weather was like while you were doing it!
Unfortunatly it seems to be getting ****er all the time with your help! :roll: Oh well? To each there own! :ohwell:
This argument is the same of religion and politics. NO MATTER what is said or done, nothing will change the opinion of the other. They (enviromentalists, anti-access) whatever they are called will only be happy and see a victory as total shut down to whatever area THEY deem apprpriate.
Bluesky, I have adopted two California Desert Tortoises, male and female. When the clutch of eggs are laid I call the people I adopted them from and they come and incubate the eggs. This is probably (I said probably) more than what you have personally done for the enviroment.
Yet I am getting to the point where the best thing for us is to hope for the end of the PMV or Tortoise or Snowy Clover. Because these species are getting in my way. Containment is not enough for you! COMPROMISE FORGET ABOUT IT, because you will always push for your next project to push people out.
Our enjoyment is different than yours, we dont see eye to eye, yet this world is turning to concrete, brick and mortar. Should we stop building houses because of the squirrels, snakes and other animal that are being displaced?
Blu, I want to hear your solution as eloquently and succinctly as you can state.
Beacause frankly im tired of your and your affiliates sh@#
Bluesky, I have adopted two California Desert Tortoises, male and female. When the clutch of eggs are laid I call the people I adopted them from and they come and incubate the eggs. This is probably (I said probably) more than what you have personally done for the enviroment.
Yet I am getting to the point where the best thing for us is to hope for the end of the PMV or Tortoise or Snowy Clover. Because these species are getting in my way. Containment is not enough for you! COMPROMISE FORGET ABOUT IT, because you will always push for your next project to push people out.
Our enjoyment is different than yours, we dont see eye to eye, yet this world is turning to concrete, brick and mortar. Should we stop building houses because of the squirrels, snakes and other animal that are being displaced?
Blu, I want to hear your solution as eloquently and succinctly as you can state.
Beacause frankly im tired of your and your affiliates sh@#
SHIPPINGBIZ?
So how do you really feel about **** sky and what do you know about the "weather"?
So how do you really feel about **** sky and what do you know about the "weather"?
The "weather", I know when it rains in California, it is only liquid sunshine. Blu would call it, acid water. I know "the grass is always greener where you water it" But Blu, and the rest of his kronies can't water their grass, they sued themselves and had it closed because it may cause drought in California, then sued everyone who drove any sort of vehicle because the smog caused the acid rain. I know there is never enogh time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over. So lets get it right and re-open our closed, did I mention public lands
Being politically correct is a form of terrorism.
Being politically correct is a form of terrorism.
[quote]Being politically correct is a form of terrorism. [/quote]
I think I like the new guy's "weather"! :wink: Welcome to the battle SHIPPINGBIZ! We can always use another good soldier to pound on the greenies! :hit:
I think I like the new guy's "weather"! :wink: Welcome to the battle SHIPPINGBIZ!
We can always use another good soldier to pound on the greenies! :hit:
[quote] NO MATTER what is said or done, nothing will change the opinion of the other. [/quote]
I have an open mind.. Convince me that OHV rec is not harming the environment
[quote] This is probably (I said probably) more than what you have personally done for the enviroment. [/quote]
because I don't ride a green sticker vehicle, I've done more than you.
[quote]Yet I am getting to the point where the best thing for us is to hope for the end of the PMV or Tortoise or Snowy Clover. Because these species are getting in my way. [/quote]
very honestly and succinctly stated. OHv rec kills on purpose.
[quote]yet this world is turning to concrete, brick and mortar.[/quote]
helped by the land clearing effects of OHV rec.
[quote]Blu, I want to hear your solution as eloquently and succinctly as you can state. [/quote]
my solution is street legal, licensed vehicles should be the only vehicles allowed outside of the OPEN areas
I have an open mind.. Convince me that OHV rec is not harming the environment
[quote] This is probably (I said probably) more than what you have personally done for the enviroment. [/quote]
because I don't ride a green sticker vehicle, I've done more than you.
[quote]Yet I am getting to the point where the best thing for us is to hope for the end of the PMV or Tortoise or Snowy Clover. Because these species are getting in my way. [/quote]
very honestly and succinctly stated. OHv rec kills on purpose.
[quote]yet this world is turning to concrete, brick and mortar.[/quote]
helped by the land clearing effects of OHV rec.
[quote]Blu, I want to hear your solution as eloquently and succinctly as you can state. [/quote]
my solution is street legal, licensed vehicles should be the only vehicles allowed outside of the OPEN areas
Trolling trolling trolliing!
keep that weather rolliing Rawhiiide!
keep that weather rolliing Rawhiiide!
I asked for your opinion and what did you do. You replied in a nazi sort of way. That is you are just repeating what you have been told. Repeating what you have been told. DO NOT disect my dialogue into pieces with cute little one line incomplete sentences. Please give me some Dialogue. I dont want to hear your feelings, because feelings are interpreted based on a number of bias'. I want to know why I should care about the PMV and everyother species of plant there. I dont want to hear about tortoises or lizards or sand poop. Because my enjoyment and time with my family laughing and playing and having a great time in the desert is my right. Tell me why this area is more important to your plants than my family. I sacrifice alot in this world. I pay my taxes, I served in Desert Storm, which did more enviromental damage than duners ever, I SAID EVER WILL. So get off my ass, you pimple.
N korea is threating Nukes, we just now are finishing up a military campaign, my point is this world has bigger problems, my escape is Glamis. Why dont you go find something you enjoy and give the path to righteousnes a break. Because people like myself , non-duners even are sick of what your selling......
N korea is threating Nukes, we just now are finishing up a military campaign, my point is this world has bigger problems, my escape is Glamis. Why dont you go find something you enjoy and give the path to righteousnes a break. Because people like myself , non-duners even are sick of what your selling......
here we go!
FISH ON!
FISH ON!
ShippingBiz, as one duner to another... it is worthless to argue with that BS artist. Do so if you want, I sure have, but most of us have given up. He/she/it will NEVER agree to any FACTS that we post, and most of the time responds, as you have seen, in a way that makes little sense and only serves to prove that he/she/it has little ground to stand on (pun intended). I would suggest ignoring that troll and just enjoy the rest of this site. Happy trails.
I know king I was feeling alittle saucy.....
[quote]I know king I was feeling alittle saucy..... [/quote]
We understand shippingbiz, **** sky is an expert at getting a reaction from those of us with a bit of common sense! :x Hence the TROLL designation! :roll: Mean while, chill out and enjoy the "weather" here at GD.com! :cheese:
We understand shippingbiz, **** sky is an expert at getting a reaction from those of us with a bit of common sense! :x Hence the TROLL designation! :roll: Mean while, chill out and enjoy the "weather" here at GD.com! :cheese:
[quote]I asked for your opinion and what did you do. You replied in a nazi sort of way. That is you are just repeating what you have been told.[/quote]
I gave you idea of a solution. I did not hear that from anybody but came on my own to the conclusion that if vehicles have license plates, they can be identified on film and prosecuted for their misdeeds. Just because you disagree has nothing to do with Nazism--except on your part!
[quote] I want to know why I should care about the PMV and everyother species of plant there.[/quote]
that's not what you asked for in the previous post, but I will answer you now.
the Dunes ecosystem is a rare natural occurrence. Some of the plants and animals that live there have developed specific ways to survive the heat and lack of water and soil. The PMV is just one of several plant species that exists only in the ISDRA dunes. By allowing the PMV to be affected by OHV rec, we are being irresponsible with our duties to protect our earth's natural areas. Who knows, we might gain some insight into how humans can survive in inhospitable areas. No one can say what use the niche of desert wildlife can provide humans. It doesn't make sense to allow it to be damaged in the name of recreation.
As you pointed out, our military does lots of damage to the natural world, so do extractive industries like mining and oil production. We need to safeguard what little remains of the natural world not only for its potential scientific benefits to mankind, but, in my opinion, there is an incalculable benefit from being in a natural place.
If people desire motorized recreation, they can have it as long as it doesn't negatively affect the ecosystem that belongs to everyone. For decades, off-roaders used the Glamis dunes for recreation, but their numbers were few enough that their impacts were acceptible. Now, however, with tens of thousands of motorized visitors every weekend during the season, the effects are unacceptible. The PMV and sand food and scarab beetle are in danger of becoming extinct due to uncontrolled OHV use in the dunes.
I don't blame all duners for the damage, but the BLM whose job it is to inform and enforce rules regarding protection of the public lands.
OHV rec is a profit-driven enterprise that uses open land as its raw material. It uses public land and when the impacts to that public land become noticeable, we ask--why can OHV rec make a profit on public lands? I couldn't go out and start hauling truckloads of sand for my private concrete business--why should yamaha, KTM etc have that privilege?
do you enjoy non-motorized recreation in nature? fishing, hiking, photography, birding, botanizing, just relaxing around the campfire and listening to the sounds of nature that can only be appreciated against the background of natural silence?
I gave you idea of a solution. I did not hear that from anybody but came on my own to the conclusion that if vehicles have license plates, they can be identified on film and prosecuted for their misdeeds. Just because you disagree has nothing to do with Nazism--except on your part!
[quote] I want to know why I should care about the PMV and everyother species of plant there.[/quote]
that's not what you asked for in the previous post, but I will answer you now.
the Dunes ecosystem is a rare natural occurrence. Some of the plants and animals that live there have developed specific ways to survive the heat and lack of water and soil. The PMV is just one of several plant species that exists only in the ISDRA dunes. By allowing the PMV to be affected by OHV rec, we are being irresponsible with our duties to protect our earth's natural areas. Who knows, we might gain some insight into how humans can survive in inhospitable areas. No one can say what use the niche of desert wildlife can provide humans. It doesn't make sense to allow it to be damaged in the name of recreation.
As you pointed out, our military does lots of damage to the natural world, so do extractive industries like mining and oil production. We need to safeguard what little remains of the natural world not only for its potential scientific benefits to mankind, but, in my opinion, there is an incalculable benefit from being in a natural place.
If people desire motorized recreation, they can have it as long as it doesn't negatively affect the ecosystem that belongs to everyone. For decades, off-roaders used the Glamis dunes for recreation, but their numbers were few enough that their impacts were acceptible. Now, however, with tens of thousands of motorized visitors every weekend during the season, the effects are unacceptible. The PMV and sand food and scarab beetle are in danger of becoming extinct due to uncontrolled OHV use in the dunes.
I don't blame all duners for the damage, but the BLM whose job it is to inform and enforce rules regarding protection of the public lands.
OHV rec is a profit-driven enterprise that uses open land as its raw material. It uses public land and when the impacts to that public land become noticeable, we ask--why can OHV rec make a profit on public lands? I couldn't go out and start hauling truckloads of sand for my private concrete business--why should yamaha, KTM etc have that privilege?
do you enjoy non-motorized recreation in nature? fishing, hiking, photography, birding, botanizing, just relaxing around the campfire and listening to the sounds of nature that can only be appreciated against the background of natural silence?
ShippingBiz fell into the same Troll trap we all have at one time or another. Sometimes you just can't help yourself! Same as when a fish takes a bite that he just knows will have as hook in it... trolling is trolling.
Good luck ShippingBiz
Vicki
Good luck ShippingBiz
Vicki
I have read these boards for a long time, I just started to post. I know all about these people. They are very lonely with ALOT of anger. The only way they feel good and feel like they are contributing is to make other people feel the same way.
Blu your sad little person who does not count. Like I said you a pimple, full of puss and must be popped. Do not mistake this for name calling, but my own personal analogy. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.....
ok thats a lie I am done with you. goodbye
Blu your sad little person who does not count. Like I said you a pimple, full of puss and must be popped. Do not mistake this for name calling, but my own personal analogy. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.....
ok thats a lie I am done with you. goodbye
[quote]Please give me some Dialogue.[/quote]
[quote]Blu your sad little person who does not count. [/quote]
both quotes by shippinbiz
I guess you couldn't respond with dignity to the thoughtful reply I gave you. Either that or you have such low self concept that you let others tell you when and to whom you can speak .
As an off-roader, I know you consider my voice as one that does not count. However, I do vote in all elections and write comments to our land managing agencies. I pay taxes and spend money in our economy. I read material to learn about the issues that affect me. I am not offended or concerned when someone who disagrees with me calls me names or ignores me.
[quote]Blu your sad little person who does not count. [/quote]
both quotes by shippinbiz
I guess you couldn't respond with dignity to the thoughtful reply I gave you. Either that or you have such low self concept that you let others tell you when and to whom you can speak .
As an off-roader, I know you consider my voice as one that does not count. However, I do vote in all elections and write comments to our land managing agencies. I pay taxes and spend money in our economy. I read material to learn about the issues that affect me. I am not offended or concerned when someone who disagrees with me calls me names or ignores me.
So I'm watching the "weather" channel right now, Doesn't look good in parts of the South! :wink: BTW, what up biz??? :cheese:
defanz, just chillin' , wondering how long it will be before I dune the closures and the like. My tortoises woke up today, boy, they were hungry. I fell asleep and had a dream, it went something like this.....
The CBD was found guilty of lying and manipulating to the public so much they were to donate all the money thet have have costed tying up the federal gov't to the ASA. And Danny and Blu personally had to take down all closure signs. This was great because we the ASA bought the BLM a new Suspensions Unlimited and guess what? While Dicky Boy and Blu were taking down the signs they got busted smoking weed. Yeah, they were given community service, they were to know go to mother G and pick up trash on gecko, comp and olds..... did i mention they had to hike in and out. this is when they realized hiking sucks and bought sand cars.....
The CBD was found guilty of lying and manipulating to the public so much they were to donate all the money thet have have costed tying up the federal gov't to the ASA. And Danny and Blu personally had to take down all closure signs. This was great because we the ASA bought the BLM a new Suspensions Unlimited and guess what? While Dicky Boy and Blu were taking down the signs they got busted smoking weed. Yeah, they were given community service, they were to know go to mother G and pick up trash on gecko, comp and olds..... did i mention they had to hike in and out. this is when they realized hiking sucks and bought sand cars.....
Now that my friend is a great dream! :cheese:
:cheese:
[quote]Who knows, we might gain some insight into how humans can survive in inhospitable areas[/quote]
Blue, if you dont think man has figured out how to live in the desert by now, we never will. Some people are in the desert, glamis for weeks on end. So apparently we have already figured it out.. *******
RoostKing...
Blue, if you dont think man has figured out how to live in the desert by now, we never will. Some people are in the desert, glamis for weeks on end. So apparently we have already figured it out.. *******
RoostKing...
Hey Redsky. Convince me the loss of the PMV will hurt the enviroment.
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