The hearing date is set, time to get serious. I've added information at the bottom of this thread.

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Looks like a whole bunch of anti-access groups are forming against us. We need to get the pro-access groups involved and get some comments to these folks!


April 24, 2003

Federal Safety Agency Sets Hearings on ATVs

PICKERINGTON, Ohio -- The federal Consumer Products Safety Commission -- the agency that banned three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles in the 1980s -- will hold a new series of public hearings on ATV safety beginning in June, the All-Terrain Vehicle Association reports.

According to a notice published in the Federal Register today, the commission will hold a public hearing June 5 in Morgantown, W.Va. The hearing will begin at 10 a.m. at West Virginia University in the Robert C. Byrd Health Science Center.

The commission states that it is "concerned about the dramatic increase in ATV-related injuries and the continued increase in ATV-related deaths, and believes that holding a hearing will provide an opportunity for the interested
public to share their concerns about ATVs and ATV safety."

The commission will take testimony on issues ranging from the availability of safety training to whether there should be "performance standards" set for ATVs.

The commission notes that there has been an increase in the number of injuries to riders using ATVs with engine sizes of 400cc and greater.

The commission also will take testimony on a proposal by a coalition of groups made up of the Consumer Federation of America, the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition, the Bluewater Network and others seeking a ban on the sale of
adult-sized ATVs sold for use by children under 16.

The coalition originally called for a ban on all ATV use by those under the age of 16 but the CPSC said that it could not enforce such a ban. ATVA Director Doug Morris noted that under a longstanding agreement between the ATV industry and the federal agency, only the smallest ATVs -- those with engines displacing 90cc or less -- have been sold for use by riders in that age group.

In addition, Morris questioned the motivation behind some of the groups involved in this attack on ATVs. He noted that the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition and the Bluewater Network have never had any involvement with, or interest in, ATV safety. Instead, their agenda has been to block access to public lands for ATV riders and others involved in motorized recreation.

"Including these anti-access organizations in this coalition makes for an odd alliance at the very least," Morris said, "since the interests of two of the coalition partners are in eliminating ATVs, not making them safer."

To testify before the Consumer Product Safety Commission in West Virginia, contact Rockelle Hammond, Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Washington, D.C., 20207. Tel: (301) 504-6833. Fax: (301) 504-0127.
E-mail: rhammond@cpsc.gov.

You can also send written testimony until July 5 to Attn: ATV Hearing, Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Washington, D.C., 20207.

[quote] He noted that the Natural Trails and Waters Coalition and the Bluewater Network have never had any involvement with, or interest in, ATV safety. Instead, their agenda has been to block access to public lands for ATV riders and others involved in motorized recreation.
[/quote]

Sounds like they have changed tactics! >:< Here we go again! :roll:

There are always new and improved ways to get to us. We just have to keep up!

This is one of the things we want to talk about at the May 10th meeting... get some comments together for submittal.

Vicki

Comment's like, Are your comparing the total number of accidents to the total number of OHV's being sold. If the accident rate has doubled and the sales have increased 10 fold, isn't that a net reduction in the number of accidents?

Exactly. And to comment on the difficult process of taking the certified course. 4.5 hours long, small number of locations available, too constricting, too expensive.

And we'll need to emphasize the sincerety of the groups lobbying for this. It's not about safety, it is once again about closing off access.

By the way, that Bluewater Network is one of the organizations on the OHV stakeholders group (they give advice to the OHMVR commission).

Vicki

I've always wondered just how benificial a safety course could be. It seems that any mention of any "real world" riding like wheelies or small jumps or sidehilling is probably met with "That's considered unsafe."

I could be wrong but that is what I would expect from a safety course.

Vor

[quote]Bluewater Network is one of the organizations on the OHV stakeholders group (they give advice to the OHMVR commission).
[/quote]


GREAT! :roll: That is just the type of people we need to advise the OHMVR! :shock: What could they possibly offer that was of any use in so much as our needs are? Isn't the commission totaly funded by our red and green sticker money or nearly so?

[quote]I've always wondered just how benificial a safety course could be. It seems that any mention of any "real world" riding like wheelies or small jumps or sidehilling is probably met with "That's considered unsafe."

I could be wrong but that is what I would expect from a safety course.

Vor[/quote]

Well, let's just say that's not what they would "certify." I think it would depend on the instructor whether or not the participants get chastized though.

I do know that the age limits in comparison to the size of the machines is very constraining. It was decided by age, not skill level or size, and that doesn't work out for people who are raised in the dunes. We have a 3.5 year old in camp, for instance, that will be outgrowing a 50cc quad very quickly. His skill level is very high, but he was practically born on a quad.

And they won't even certify people under the age of 6.

Vicki

[quote="dezfan1"][quote]Isn't the commission totaly funded by our red and green sticker money or nearly so?[/quote]

Nearly so is more accurate. More money is put in that fund by off-highway gasoline tax than green sticker registration.

Vicki

So how do they rate (Bluewater) being in an advisory position if they are in no way financially connected to the commission? :x :x :x I mean it's our money, shouldn't we the OHV community decide how it is spent?

I agree with you exactly. Why are these non Off Highway Motor Vehicle people being allowed to decide what is done with the Off Highway Motor Vehicle fund???

Vicki

That should be one of the questions asked at this meeting.[/quote]

Well, OHMVR is very clear in it's "purpose"... and that is to MITIGATE DAMAGE CAUSED BY THOSE EVIL OHV'S...
It is how it is worded in California law... The money from Green Sticker is to go to help educate and correct problems that arise from off-roading, and oh, as a side note... to develope new riding areas.

The fact that OUR money goes to so called "GREEN" groups or "anti-access" groups has been status quo since they started collecting from us.

This is no different.

Vor

Actually, we've gotten a little side-tracked. We started talking about the Bluewater Network and it went south from there.

It is the Consumer Products Safety group that wants input on ATV safety.

They have been petitioned to basically eliminate ATV sales due to the increase in accidents.

I'm sure the manufacturers are going to rally support, but we, the users, need to give our two cents too.

I know we're not experts and no one is expecting that. But a balanced approach to the issue means to weigh the good with the bad.

Specific comments about the benefits of ATV use would be perfect.

Vicki

Gee maybe if we put seatbelts on quads they'll stop whining:)

[quote]Gee maybe if we put seatbelts on quads they'll stop whining:)[/quote]

A positive outlook on the situation at this time is necessay!! If you are ATV user..you should get involved!! :wink: :bounce:

Oh gee once again sorry mxchick. fuck! Gosh I wish someone would pull that stick outta their ass!!!

[quote]Oh gee once again sorry mxchick. ****! Gosh I wish someone would pull that stick outta their ass!!![/quote]

No stick here...I checked...maybe you should check!! It's amazing how the young ones are so nieve!! :cheese:

[quote][quote]Oh gee once again sorry mxchick. ****! Gosh I wish someone would pull that stick outta their ass!!![/quote]

No stick here...I checked...maybe you should check!! It's amazing how the young ones are so nieve!! :cheese:[/quote]

Are you sure? Double check please. It might be a little twig then:) Im just messing around. Gosh dont take me so seriously!!!! I just thought the idea of putting seatbelts on quads would be funny to say but n/m.

Uh ok!! No problem!! Have an ICDB....and enjoy....oh wait you're not 21 yet!! But I won't tell!!

I'll take an icdb. Pepsi will be fine:)

You got it!

Ok children... let's stay on the topic. :mrgreen:

QUOTE

Ok children... let's stay on the topic.  :mrgreen:

Well what do you think about seat belts? :? :roll:

I gotta agree with mxchick about getting involved... there sure is strength in numbers.

But the seatbelt suggetion confuses me... was it meant to appease the bad guys (here, we made them safer now go away)? Because if so, it won't work.

Or is it an honest suggestion to help make them safer?

Or was it just said for the heck of it :cheese:

Vicki

QUOTE

I gotta agree with mxchick about getting involved... there sure is strength in numbers. But the seatbelt suggetion confuses me... was it meant to appease the bad guys (here, we made them safer now go away)?  Because if so, it won't work. Or is it an honest suggestion to help make them safer? Or was it just said for the heck of it  :cheese:   Vicki

I believe he said it for the heck of it. :mrgreen:

QUOTE

QUOTE I gotta agree with mxchick about getting involved... there sure is strength in numbers. But the seatbelt suggetion confuses me... was it meant to appease the bad guys (here, we made them safer now go away)?  Because if so, it won't work. Or is it an honest suggestion to help make them safer? Or was it just said for the heck of it  :cheese:   Vicki I believe he said it for the heck of it. :mrgreen:

Yep I think rubberdick hit the nail on da head

American Motorcyclist Association
April. 24, 2003
For Immediate Release
Contact: Bill Kresnak
Phone: (614) 856-1900
Fax: (614) 856-1920

Federal Safety Agency Sets Hearings on ATVs

PICKERINGTON, Ohio -- The federal Consumer Product Safety Commission
-- the agency that banned three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles in the
1980s -- will hold a new series of public hearings on ATV safety
beginning in June, the All-Terrain Vehicle Association reports.

According to a notice published in the Federal Register today, the
commission will hold a public hearing June 5 in Morgantown, W.Va. The
hearing will begin at 10 a.m. at West Virginia University in the
Robert C. Byrd Health Science Center.

The commission states that it is "concerned about the dramatic
increase in ATV-related injuries and the continued increase in
ATV-related deaths, and believes that holding a hearing will provide
an opportunity for the interested public to share their concerns
about ATVs and ATV safety."

The commission will take testimony on issues ranging from the
availability of safety training to whether there should be
"performance standards" set for ATVs. The commission notes that there
has been an increase in the number of injuries to riders using ATVs
with engine sizes of 400cc and greater.

The commission also will take testimony on a proposal by a coalition
of groups made up of the Consumer Federation of America, the Natural
Trails and Waters Coalition, the Bluewater Network and others seeking
a ban on the sale of adult-sized ATVs sold for use by children under
16.

The coalition originally called for a ban on all ATV use by those
under the age of 16 but the CPSC said that it could not enforce such
a ban. ATVA Director Doug Morris noted that under a longstanding
agreement between the ATV industry and the federal agency, only the
smallest ATVs -- those with engines displacing 90cc or less -- have
been sold for use by riders in that age group.

In addition, Morris questioned the motivation behind some of the
groups involved in this attack on ATVs. He noted that the Natural
Trails and Waters Coalition and the Bluewater Network have never had
any involvement with, or interest in, ATV safety. Instead, their
agenda has been to block access to public lands for ATV riders and
others involved in motorized recreation.

"Including these anti-access organizations in this coalition makes
for an odd alliance at the very least," Morris said, "since the
interests of two of the coalition partners are in eliminating ATVs,
not making them safer."

To testify before the Consumer Product Safety Commission in West
Virginia, contact Rockelle Hammond, Office of the Secretary, Consumer
Product Safety Commission, Washington, D.C., 20207. Tel: (301)
504-6833. Fax: (301) 504-0127. E-mail: rhammond@cpsc.gov.


You can also send written testimony until July 5 to Attn: ATV
Hearing, Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission,
Washington, D.C., 20207.

QUOTE

Were atc's banned?  I think not, just the manf. stopped selling them in the US and a year or so latter they stopped making them.  But banned?  I know this is just another libral left wing enviro-terrorist tactic to go after one of the tools of off-roaders. :x  >:<  :x

This is back in the spotlight over on the ASA board and I realized that I'd never answered your post Bill :oops:

Here is a clip from a King Glamis post that gives the answer:

QUOTE

Nevertheless, on April 28, 1988, the U.S. ATV distributors entered into an unprecedented 10-year agreement with the CPSC called the Final Consent Decree. Under the agreement, the ATV industry made a $100-million commitment to expand existing safety programs. Among the many components of this agreement, free training and training incentives were offered to owners and purchasers of new ATVs. Additionally, distributors would no longer market three-wheel ATVs, repurchasing any unsold three-wheel models from dealer inventory.

Vicki

Thanks, so they weren't banned? Right? Agreement. They choose to stop.

QUOTE

Thanks, so they weren't banned?  Right?  Agreement.  They choose to stop.

Correct, they have not been "banned" (which is why you still see some people riding them). But I wouldn't be so gentle as to say they chose to stop... unless maybe you add "under durress".

This is not just a semantics thing... for over three years the CBD has been trying to sell the public on the misrepresentation that the off-road community agreed to the need for the temporary closures because a stipulation was signed.

Do you get my drift? I just don't want to cut the bad guys any slack by suggesting any of the good guys would choose to follow bad guy restrictions.

Having the anti-access groups interfere via the Consumer Product Safety Commission once again really makes me cranky :rant:

Does it show? hehehe

Vicki