Thursday, May 8, 2003
Moab Times-Independent guest editorial
It Doesn't Have to Be This Way
by Dan Kent
It is becoming harder to find the undiminished natural beauty once available just yards away from nearly any road in Grand County. The damage of irresponsible, disrespectful recreationists cover every trailhead: shattered and burned living trees, trash and human waste, vehicle-crushed plants, soils, animals and signs, once favorite places turned into burned-out, tracked-up dust bowls. What once seemed limitless is clearly not, and unless we do something to protect what we have, it will be consumed one bite at a time by careless and unknowing indifference. It doesn't have to be this way.
Moab has reached a key stage in its evolution--a crisis, if you wish. Will we tend our economic and spiritual garden by creating a forward-looking land management policy and by requiring respect and responsibility from our guests, or will we allow our future and the beautiful lands of our dreams to be needlessly plundered by a rabble that seeks motorized mayhem and an innocent landscape to rape? The headline of a recent lead article (Jeep Safari) blithely ignores the exponentially increasing damage to our irreplaceable home and the rapid loss of our "golden goose"; a world class beauty, peace, and freedom sought by people of all walks of life worldwide. A savage and disrespectful destructiveness in the newest wave of uneducated vehicle enthusiasts, coupled with a lack of support for the underfunded agencies charged with sustaining our public lands, has created horrific swaths of shattered land. Moab has even allowed the town temple-mount to become an homage to creation-conquering testosterone and fossil fuel. Just a few years ago Emmett went to great efforts to meet citizen's wishes to protect the natural beauty of that place. Now there is barely a peep at the sacrilege being done on that lovely perch above our special town, where half-a-millennia-old bonsai trees and shrubs are being ripped out to make way for technological playthings to frolic. Unless this style of land use is addressed, we stand to lose most of what makes Moab and Canyonlands special.
Anyone who wants to see the future of unmanaged, unlimited ORV use in Grand County need only visit White Wash Dunes or 10-Mile Canyon, two of our finest gems, now dramatically altered by five years of intense use. According to the Rozmans, owners of Ruby Ranch, there was no vehicle use at all 25 years ago, just cows and horses. Most of 10-Mile Canyon's numerous archeological sites have been vandalized beyond redemption. Unauthorized vehicle routes criss-cross the benches, inflicting more harm than done by the cattle removed just a few years ago in order to protect vegetative and riparian (streamside) values. The BLM limited travel to "existing" routes three years ago in an attempt to staunch the hemorrhaging, and signed the wash bottom as the only vehicle route, to no avail. USA-ALL, a rabid ORV access group, took them to court and is probably urging its members to defy the modest restriction (there are over 5,000 miles of open vehicle paths in Grand County alone).
White Wash and its unique sub-irrigated dunefield cottonwoods have suffered more. I urge you to go and see it. Home to bighorn sheep, peregrine falcons, red-spotted toads and numerous rare plants, its spring-fed slot canyons in the Entrada Sandstone resemble bleeding wounds, with the now unvegetated silt-laden streams flowing through cut-banks and broken stone boxes the width of a large ATV. the hundreds gathering here on a weekend, mostly first-timers from out of the area, are greeted by little more than a short list of suggestions, every one of which is violated in spades. Live trees are cut and left smoldering in the creek. Screaming two-strokes and automatic gunfire reverberate off the canyon walls.
RVs dump their sewage tanks on the access road. Hordes of destructive, unattended juveniles ring the trees, intentionally ripping apart what is left of the dune ecology. This formerly safe, lovely, natural wonder could be a #1 destination for families seeking outdoor experiences, but foot travelers are met with smoke-spewing, unmuffled, obnoxious exhibitionists circling them and wondering why anyone would want to walk out into such a hellish experience. It takes guts to walk out on the dunes on a busy weekend! So much for "multiple and sustained yield".
It doesn't have to be this way.
--The County and Sheriff can back up the Sand Flats team and others trying to provide a quality experience and protect our resource.
--the Red Rock Four-Wheelers can promote responsible riding and a policy of no new tracks, and lead the way on designating a sensible, balanced, understandable, patrollable road network that abandons the current totally incomprehensible County road claims map.
--The BLM can maintain a high level of user responsibility through education and active protection of mistreated areas, and can insure a quality future through visionary planning that does not "sacrifice" any of Grand County to unlimited ORV use.
--Business people and citizens of all walks can participate in a renewed campaign to educate visitors on no-trace camping and recreating involving reach-out at the restaurants, retail businesses, campgrounds, hotels and gas pumps.
--We can all get out of the trenches and create a plan to keep our home vital and beautiful, creating a garden in place of the battlefield between our ideological extremes.
Witness the city park: everyone knows that you are expected to park your vehicle and walk to tables and swings. Anyone selfish enough to drive over grass or the playground equipment gets a ticket if they are caught, and they expect it. And this happens in a place where we can FIX the damage! Can we get the same kind of respect for our beloved canyons and deserts without building 5,000 parking lots? I believe we can, but it will necessitate a unified and committed planning effort. What shall be the forum? It is still our community, and we have a choice.
Full Version: enviros protesting off-roaders in Moab
[img]http://www.maverickreport.com/images/smilies/sleep.gif[/img]
| QUOTE |
| trash and human waste |
Anything like the waste you dump out in the desert?
| QUOTE |
| a world class beauty, peace, and freedom sought by people of all walks of life worldwide |
We too as off roaders seek this same thing. Note the above quote!!!
| QUOTE |
| and is probably urging its members to defy the modest restriction |
Thats quite the pompus assumption. He knows this for fact????
| QUOTE |
| [img]http://www.maverickreport.com/images/smilies/sleep.gif[/img] |
I'm sure this was something good.
****Sky, You are absolutely right, "It Doesn't Have to Be This Way" So when are you and your friends going to start helping instead of just insisting that every piece of land be closed off to all?
Oh, this is just pathetic.
Our resident Troll is not limited to just living under our bridge... he has several that he lurks under.
So he tried posting this same thing over on DesertUSA a while ago but it seems they are even more bored with him than we are. Over there he's had to resort to responding to his own posts!
Really, how pitiful.
Vicki
Our resident Troll is not limited to just living under our bridge... he has several that he lurks under.
So he tried posting this same thing over on DesertUSA a while ago but it seems they are even more bored with him than we are. Over there he's had to resort to responding to his own posts!
Really, how pitiful.
Vicki
| QUOTE |
| Oh, this is just pathetic.
Our resident Troll is not limited to just living under our bridge... he has several that he lurks under. So he tried posting this same thing over on DesertUSA a while ago but it seems they are even more bored with him than we are. Over there he's had to resort to responding to his own posts! Really, how pitiful. Vicki |
Okay, I'll stop, it might be fun to watch it argue with it's self!
| QUOTE |
| USA-ALL, a rabid ORV access group, took them to court and is probably urging its members to defy the modest restriction (there are over 5,000 miles of open vehicle paths in Grand County alone). --the Red Rock Four-Wheelers can promote responsible riding and a policy of no new tracks, and lead the way on designating a sensible, balanced, understandable, patrollable road network that abandons the current totally incomprehensible County road claims map. |
While I haven't had any experience with USA-ALL, all other pro ohv groups I've dealt with or even read about have promoted responsible usage of recreational lands. I can pretty much guarentee that USA-ALL has not urged their members to defy any restrictions. Tread Lightly is a motto that is lived by these Org's. These groups, much like the ASA, CORVA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, DUNERs, and others wish to keep these lands open and active for their childrens children. Moab is plenty challenging even staying on the marked trails and the Red Rock four-wheelers have huge events each year taking people from all over the states on these marked trails.
Unfortunately, there is a problem, not just in Moab but in many of the popular OHV area's across the country. Human excrement is left by the wayside, trash is strewn over the areas and the vegetation is removed by people who don't know what off roading is all about. The same people that we deal with digging ditches and dropping trash out in the dunes tear up trails without a care. The best answer I can come up with is education. Closing the area's to everyone not on foot isn't the answer. Likewise, not doing anything and hoping the "bad element" goes away won't work either. The local clubs need to get innvolved with the people actively using these trails and soon or thanks to the enviro wacko's that can't see past their agendas, the trails will be all closed and we will be forced to 'wheel in our literal back yards.
| QUOTE |
| Can we get the same kind of respect for our beloved canyons and deserts without building 5,000 parking lots? I believe we can, but it will necessitate a unified and committed planning effort. What shall be the forum? It is still our community, and we have a choice. |
It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch! :x Thankfully the majority of OHV enthusiast are very aware of their surroundings and are the first to tell those that we encounter on the trail if they are doing harm. It is unfortunate that is necessary, but it is.
However education is the answer! Not blanket closures of our public land which the extreme eco-orgs are pushing for! :x If they had their way, the only open areas you could visit would be city parks! :roll:
| QUOTE |
| It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch! :x Thankfully the majority of OHV enthusiast are very aware of their surroundings and are the first to tell those that we encounter on the trail if they are doing harm. It is unfortunate that is necessary, but it is. However education is the answer! Not blanket closures of our public land which the extreme eco-orgs are pushing for! :x If they had their way, the only open areas you could visit would be city parks! :roll: |
No they, will take the public parks away too!
I emailed USA-ALL about this letter. Evidently, this writer has been spewing garbage for so long that his articles are just taken with a grain of salt. This particular letter though went far enough over the edge that USA-ALL drafted a response to send out to their mailing list. Brian Hawthorne, executive director of the USA-ALL was nice enough to reply to my email and include a copy of the response which is in quotes below. I'm now on the mailing list so I'll be getting updated info and postig it as well.
[quote]I actually wrote a response to Danny's hate mail, which was printed in the latest issue of the Moab Times Independent. I'll paste it below. Feel free to use it in any way like.
I've put you on our email ACTION ALERT list. I'm confident you'll find it very interesting and fun to read. If I'm wrong, send me an email and I'll take you off. (We blind all recipients to avoid spam)
Brian Hawthorne
Utah Shared Access Alliance
http://www.usa-all.com
I trust the people of Moab are familiar with Dan Kent enough to recognize his trademark exaggeration and know not to take him too seriously. I’ve come to recognize his brand of hyperbole and know that the proverbial grain of salt is usually needed. Because of that, we usually don’t respond to Danny’s letters.
But a statement he made in his Opinion published by the Moab Times Independent last Thursday, May 8, 2003 requires a response. Danny suggested the group I work for, the Utah Shared Access Alliance (USA-ALL) is urging our members to violate BLM restrictions. Please know that USA-ALL does not, under any circumstance, urge anyone to violate restrictions, even those made illegally or improperly.
Danny knows that USA-ALL would never do such a thing. His statements were made to disparage and denigrate those who choose or are required to use vehicles for access and recreation. Danny knows the BLM will update their management plan and I guess he thinks it advances his cause to begin the process by publicly attacking other stakeholders.
Allow me to seize the opportunity to set the record straight. USA-ALL has challenged numerous land management decisions made by the BLM throughout Utah, including some made by the Moab BLM. That lawsuit challenged BLM’s use of Emergency Orders to bypass public involvement and lawful procedure. BLM has already reversed several unlawful actions as a result of the lawsuit.
One particular action Moab BLM took is typical of those we challenged in other parts of the state. Using the increase in the popularity of OHV and other recreational use as a pretext, BLM limited all dispersed camping along Hwy 313 to 5 developed campgrounds. Now, we’re not saying that the increase in camping wasn’t a problem. Our point is that if the BLM would have involved the public, as they are legally required to, they might have found widespread support for many of the existing campsites they closed. They probably would have received some very good suggestions on ways they could mitigate the problems associated with camping (human waste and firewood cutting) as well.
We also think that a public planning process would have demonstrated the overwhelming popularity of dispersed camping and the utter folly of not planning for it. When the BLM developed the camping plan for the Colorado River, many campers simply moved to Behind the Rocks and Hwy 313. Where do you suppose they have moved to today?
Danny tries to make it out like USA-ALL opposes all restrictions. Not true. But we do oppose landscape level restrictions imposed via Emergency Orders. Danny made big hay about our challenge of BLM’s move from “open” to “limited” travel rules. He can try to make that case but it won’t stick. USA-ALL wants management. That means maps, trail marking, user involvement (adopt-a-tail agreements) and enforcement. All of which, despite the Emergency Orders, we still do don’t have.
OHV management is just one of the issues we’ll be dealing with when the BLM starts their planning process. We will all have to make compromises and no user group will get exactly what they want. It’s too bad that Danny chose to begin the process with such a hateful letter.
Brian Hawthorne serves as Executive Director at the Utah Shared Access Alliance, Utah's largest public lands access advocacy group.
[/quote]
This all sounds so familiar. Stoopid enviro's. :roll: [/quote]
[quote]I actually wrote a response to Danny's hate mail, which was printed in the latest issue of the Moab Times Independent. I'll paste it below. Feel free to use it in any way like.
I've put you on our email ACTION ALERT list. I'm confident you'll find it very interesting and fun to read. If I'm wrong, send me an email and I'll take you off. (We blind all recipients to avoid spam)
Brian Hawthorne
Utah Shared Access Alliance
http://www.usa-all.com
I trust the people of Moab are familiar with Dan Kent enough to recognize his trademark exaggeration and know not to take him too seriously. I’ve come to recognize his brand of hyperbole and know that the proverbial grain of salt is usually needed. Because of that, we usually don’t respond to Danny’s letters.
But a statement he made in his Opinion published by the Moab Times Independent last Thursday, May 8, 2003 requires a response. Danny suggested the group I work for, the Utah Shared Access Alliance (USA-ALL) is urging our members to violate BLM restrictions. Please know that USA-ALL does not, under any circumstance, urge anyone to violate restrictions, even those made illegally or improperly.
Danny knows that USA-ALL would never do such a thing. His statements were made to disparage and denigrate those who choose or are required to use vehicles for access and recreation. Danny knows the BLM will update their management plan and I guess he thinks it advances his cause to begin the process by publicly attacking other stakeholders.
Allow me to seize the opportunity to set the record straight. USA-ALL has challenged numerous land management decisions made by the BLM throughout Utah, including some made by the Moab BLM. That lawsuit challenged BLM’s use of Emergency Orders to bypass public involvement and lawful procedure. BLM has already reversed several unlawful actions as a result of the lawsuit.
One particular action Moab BLM took is typical of those we challenged in other parts of the state. Using the increase in the popularity of OHV and other recreational use as a pretext, BLM limited all dispersed camping along Hwy 313 to 5 developed campgrounds. Now, we’re not saying that the increase in camping wasn’t a problem. Our point is that if the BLM would have involved the public, as they are legally required to, they might have found widespread support for many of the existing campsites they closed. They probably would have received some very good suggestions on ways they could mitigate the problems associated with camping (human waste and firewood cutting) as well.
We also think that a public planning process would have demonstrated the overwhelming popularity of dispersed camping and the utter folly of not planning for it. When the BLM developed the camping plan for the Colorado River, many campers simply moved to Behind the Rocks and Hwy 313. Where do you suppose they have moved to today?
Danny tries to make it out like USA-ALL opposes all restrictions. Not true. But we do oppose landscape level restrictions imposed via Emergency Orders. Danny made big hay about our challenge of BLM’s move from “open” to “limited” travel rules. He can try to make that case but it won’t stick. USA-ALL wants management. That means maps, trail marking, user involvement (adopt-a-tail agreements) and enforcement. All of which, despite the Emergency Orders, we still do don’t have.
OHV management is just one of the issues we’ll be dealing with when the BLM starts their planning process. We will all have to make compromises and no user group will get exactly what they want. It’s too bad that Danny chose to begin the process with such a hateful letter.
Brian Hawthorne serves as Executive Director at the Utah Shared Access Alliance, Utah's largest public lands access advocacy group.
[/quote]
This all sounds so familiar. Stoopid enviro's. :roll: [/quote]
Must be something about the name "Dan."
For the Bluesky addicts out there:
Step 1 of 12 - I admit that I am powerless over my addiction to responding to Bluesky...
For the Bluesky addicts out there:
Step 1 of 12 - I admit that I am powerless over my addiction to responding to Bluesky...
[quote] Please know that USA-ALL does not, under any circumstance, urge anyone to violate restrictions, even those made illegally or improperly.
[/quote]
I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same.
I have seen instances where a dirt bike race course has been set over private lands without permission, then the new routes included in BLM route inventories.
I have seen evidence of OHV riders who totally disregard No Trespassing signs that delineate private property and Limited Use public lands--specifically aimed at OHV traffic...
so I find Kent's comments totally plausible.
[quote] Now, we’re not saying that the increase in camping wasn’t a problem. Our point is that if the BLM would have involved the public, as they are legally required to, they might have found widespread support for many of the existing campsites they closed. They probably would have received some very good suggestions on ways they could mitigate the problems associated with camping (human waste and firewood cutting) as well. [/quote]
the BLM is underfunded. Taxes are being returned to fat cats while the need for land management hemorrhages out of control. The federal deficit increases while we give money away to rebuild a country we had no moral or legal right to invade in the first place.
[quote]When the BLM developed the camping plan for the Colorado River, many campers simply moved to Behind the Rocks and Hwy 313. Where do you suppose they have moved to today?
[/quote]
sounds like he acknowledges the problem Kent is underscoring in his letter.
[quote] USA-ALL wants management. That means maps, trail marking, user involvement (adopt-a-tail agreements) and enforcement. All of which, despite the Emergency Orders, we still do don’t have.[/quote]
that's what I want too. he forgot to mention trail restoration.
[quote]It’s too bad that Danny chose to begin the process with such a hateful letter[/quote]
letters are the only way enviros can strike back at the destruction done to the land by uncaring OHV users. If you detect frustration, don't confuse it with hate.
[/quote]
I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same.
I have seen instances where a dirt bike race course has been set over private lands without permission, then the new routes included in BLM route inventories.
I have seen evidence of OHV riders who totally disregard No Trespassing signs that delineate private property and Limited Use public lands--specifically aimed at OHV traffic...
so I find Kent's comments totally plausible.
[quote] Now, we’re not saying that the increase in camping wasn’t a problem. Our point is that if the BLM would have involved the public, as they are legally required to, they might have found widespread support for many of the existing campsites they closed. They probably would have received some very good suggestions on ways they could mitigate the problems associated with camping (human waste and firewood cutting) as well. [/quote]
the BLM is underfunded. Taxes are being returned to fat cats while the need for land management hemorrhages out of control. The federal deficit increases while we give money away to rebuild a country we had no moral or legal right to invade in the first place.
[quote]When the BLM developed the camping plan for the Colorado River, many campers simply moved to Behind the Rocks and Hwy 313. Where do you suppose they have moved to today?
[/quote]
sounds like he acknowledges the problem Kent is underscoring in his letter.
[quote] USA-ALL wants management. That means maps, trail marking, user involvement (adopt-a-tail agreements) and enforcement. All of which, despite the Emergency Orders, we still do don’t have.[/quote]
that's what I want too. he forgot to mention trail restoration.
[quote]It’s too bad that Danny chose to begin the process with such a hateful letter[/quote]
letters are the only way enviros can strike back at the destruction done to the land by uncaring OHV users. If you detect frustration, don't confuse it with hate.
[quote][quote] Please know that USA-ALL does not, under any circumstance, urge anyone to violate restrictions, even those made illegally or improperly.
[/quote]
I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same.
the BLM is underfunded. Taxes are being returned to fat cats while the need for land management hemorrhages out of control. The federal deficit increases while we give money away to rebuild a country we had no moral or legal right to invade in the first place.[/quote]
I personally as a moderator and long time board member before that have not ever seen an instance where one of our members has admitted to intentionally riding into a closed area or urging others to do so. Those with cooler heads would have jumped all over that person for doing so. While it might be wrong and it might be less than legal, it is still the law and an important one at that.
I have ridden through the central closure twice on accident because of poor signage. I have also posted about the lack of standing signs in certain parts of the dunes and for all to be carefull. That is as close as it gets to intentionally violating the closures.
The BLM isn't quite underfunded. Off the top of my head, I can't recall if it was 50% or 75% of the BLM's budget that is spent on litigation, mostly from enviro groups. I assume that if these millions are freed up, the BLM will have it's act together in short order and start the business of managing our ohv areas in better ways.
[/quote]
I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same.
the BLM is underfunded. Taxes are being returned to fat cats while the need for land management hemorrhages out of control. The federal deficit increases while we give money away to rebuild a country we had no moral or legal right to invade in the first place.[/quote]
I personally as a moderator and long time board member before that have not ever seen an instance where one of our members has admitted to intentionally riding into a closed area or urging others to do so. Those with cooler heads would have jumped all over that person for doing so. While it might be wrong and it might be less than legal, it is still the law and an important one at that.
I have ridden through the central closure twice on accident because of poor signage. I have also posted about the lack of standing signs in certain parts of the dunes and for all to be carefull. That is as close as it gets to intentionally violating the closures.
The BLM isn't quite underfunded. Off the top of my head, I can't recall if it was 50% or 75% of the BLM's budget that is spent on litigation, mostly from enviro groups. I assume that if these millions are freed up, the BLM will have it's act together in short order and start the business of managing our ohv areas in better ways.
[quote]I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same[/quote]
Prove it.
Prove it.
[quote]Prove it. [/quote]
I'll have to wait to access the ASA board from my work computer as they blocked me out from my home computer--I'm sure I have read these things, so I will search for them and post them here.
[quote]The BLM isn't quite underfunded. Off the top of my head, I can't recall if it was 50% or 75% of the BLM's budget that is spent on litigation, mostly from enviro groups. I assume that if these millions are freed up, the BLM will have it's act together in short order and start the business of managing our ohv areas in better ways. [/quote]
If BLM loses in court they are only liable for court costs--attorney fees. I don't believe this is in the millions of dollars.
Of course you know that CORVA, ORBA et al are suing BLM for allowing the tortoise to become threatened.
Whatever figures you may remember, the fact remains that all of the BLM field offices are miserably understaffed. The Barstow office, for ex has 8 LE positions to cover from Victorville to Pahrump Nevada. They're always at Dumont dunes arresting people for shooting, dumping, theft etc. so all the other areas in the High desert are left with no one to respond to calls or to make routine patrols. Of those 8 positions, only 4 or 5 are filled. Is it lack of funds or just incompetence? Or is it done on purpose to allow motorized rec to impact lands that might have been considered for Wilderness designation?
I'll have to wait to access the ASA board from my work computer as they blocked me out from my home computer--I'm sure I have read these things, so I will search for them and post them here.
[quote]The BLM isn't quite underfunded. Off the top of my head, I can't recall if it was 50% or 75% of the BLM's budget that is spent on litigation, mostly from enviro groups. I assume that if these millions are freed up, the BLM will have it's act together in short order and start the business of managing our ohv areas in better ways. [/quote]
If BLM loses in court they are only liable for court costs--attorney fees. I don't believe this is in the millions of dollars.
Of course you know that CORVA, ORBA et al are suing BLM for allowing the tortoise to become threatened.
Whatever figures you may remember, the fact remains that all of the BLM field offices are miserably understaffed. The Barstow office, for ex has 8 LE positions to cover from Victorville to Pahrump Nevada. They're always at Dumont dunes arresting people for shooting, dumping, theft etc. so all the other areas in the High desert are left with no one to respond to calls or to make routine patrols. Of those 8 positions, only 4 or 5 are filled. Is it lack of funds or just incompetence? Or is it done on purpose to allow motorized rec to impact lands that might have been considered for Wilderness designation?
[quote]If BLM loses in court they are only liable for court costs--attorney fees. I don't believe this is in the millions of dollars.
[/quote]
You are so very wrong. The USFS spends over 40% of it's budget on litigation. Groups of enviroliars like the Sierra Club, et.al., know this. They keep filing suit, winning money, taking money away that should be used for maintenence, and then get angry because things aren't maintained, creating a stupid vicious circle.
Who suffers?
ALL of the public, including you.
[/quote]
You are so very wrong. The USFS spends over 40% of it's budget on litigation. Groups of enviroliars like the Sierra Club, et.al., know this. They keep filing suit, winning money, taking money away that should be used for maintenence, and then get angry because things aren't maintained, creating a stupid vicious circle.
Who suffers?
ALL of the public, including you.
[quote="Bluesky]Whatever figures you may remember, the fact remains that all of the BLM field offices are miserably understaffed. The Barstow office, for ex has 8 LE positions to cover from Victorville to Pahrump Nevada. They're always at Dumont dunes arresting people for shooting, dumping, theft etc. so all the other areas in the High desert are left with no one to respond to calls or to make routine patrols. Of those 8 positions, only 4 or 5 are filled. Is it lack of funds or just incompetence? Or is it done on purpose to allow motorized rec to impact lands that might have been considered for Wilderness designation?[/quote]
This may be true. The fact is that the BLM, Forrest Service, etc. would have plenty of money to get the job done if it wasn't for the constant barage of lawsuits forcing them to use money earmarked for land managment to fight the litigation. As Washroad put it, everybody suffers.
This may be true. The fact is that the BLM, Forrest Service, etc. would have plenty of money to get the job done if it wasn't for the constant barage of lawsuits forcing them to use money earmarked for land managment to fight the litigation. As Washroad put it, everybody suffers.
[quote]I'll have to wait to access the ASA board from my work computer as they blocked me out from my home computer--I'm sure I have read these things, so I will search for them and post them here.[/quote]
I hope you do that on your lunch hour so as not to use publicly funded time to further your personal interest's :wink:
I hope you do that on your lunch hour so as not to use publicly funded time to further your personal interest's :wink:
This is good. There has never been anything in place on the ASA board to keep anyone including BS/Rod/AZFXEAT or any other names he's posted under from reading the site.
Yes our local troll has been blocked from posting under quite a few names but we've never done anything to keep him or anyone else from reading the site.
Personally I find it damn funny that someone who has repeatedly shown himself incapable of following very simple rules (must use a real name - must not attack other users) is pointing fingers and calling people names because he claims they can't follow rules.
Even funnier that he has to get on the ASA baord to back up the statement:
"I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same."
Why not just show the examples from "This board" and prove he's not blowing smoke - probably for the same reason he can't proove that evil OHVers are lifting their bikes over the fence north of 78 :roll:
Yes our local troll has been blocked from posting under quite a few names but we've never done anything to keep him or anyone else from reading the site.
Personally I find it damn funny that someone who has repeatedly shown himself incapable of following very simple rules (must use a real name - must not attack other users) is pointing fingers and calling people names because he claims they can't follow rules.
Even funnier that he has to get on the ASA baord to back up the statement:
"I know I have read on this and other boards of people who out of frustration ride into closed areas and urge others to do the same."
Why not just show the examples from "This board" and prove he's not blowing smoke - probably for the same reason he can't proove that evil OHVers are lifting their bikes over the fence north of 78 :roll:
| QUOTE |
| You have been banned from this forum
Please contact the webmaster or board administrator for more information |
If you'll lie about your own site--what else will you lie about?
I recognize this pattern...
Now the Troll will get increasingly hostile, crawling to the brink of being banned, maybe halting just before being permanently booted, although not always, as exhibited by its being banned from numerous other message boards.
Then it will go away for a short time. Regroup.
When returns it will be lucid at first, even friendly, conversational and may exhibit a spark of humor. But it will begin to slowly revert to the same tired routine we've all come to expect.
And then the cycle will be in full bloom.
It's been this way, here and on other boards, at least for the couple of years that it's been enamoured with off-roaders. If we went away it would find another group to do this to...
This is a game that it very much enjoys and it is a classic Internet Troll strategy.
Vicki
Now the Troll will get increasingly hostile, crawling to the brink of being banned, maybe halting just before being permanently booted, although not always, as exhibited by its being banned from numerous other message boards.
Then it will go away for a short time. Regroup.
When returns it will be lucid at first, even friendly, conversational and may exhibit a spark of humor. But it will begin to slowly revert to the same tired routine we've all come to expect.
And then the cycle will be in full bloom.
It's been this way, here and on other boards, at least for the couple of years that it's been enamoured with off-roaders. If we went away it would find another group to do this to...
This is a game that it very much enjoys and it is a classic Internet Troll strategy.
Vicki
| QUOTE | ||
http://www.americansandassociation.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8
If you'll lie about your own site--what else will you lie about? |
Don't try to log in...just browse, dumb-ass.
| QUOTE |
| Must be something about the name \"Dan.\" For the Bluesky addicts out there: Step 1 of 12 - I admit that I am powerless over my addiction to responding to Bluesky... |
8)
Hmmm, looks like Guy redid some of the things he accidentally undid before he stepped down as Admin. Two of the BS names are back in the ban again and so is his primary IP. Last time I had checked a few weeks ago they weren't.
So I did misspeak slightly - BS under two of his names and one of his IP addresses is still banned but no one else is.
I still call BS on his own lie though that he claimed there are plenty of examples on this BBS and others to support his accusations - if that was true then why does he HAVE to get on the ASA board to prove them?
Either he needs to show some examples from this BBS or admit that he was lying when he made that accusation. Maybe he ment "or other BBSes" but that's not what he said before....then again logic does not seem to be his strong point.
So I did misspeak slightly - BS under two of his names and one of his IP addresses is still banned but no one else is.
I still call BS on his own lie though that he claimed there are plenty of examples on this BBS and others to support his accusations - if that was true then why does he HAVE to get on the ASA board to prove them?
Either he needs to show some examples from this BBS or admit that he was lying when he made that accusation. Maybe he ment "or other BBSes" but that's not what he said before....then again logic does not seem to be his strong point.
| QUOTE |
| Hmmm, looks like Guy redid some of the things he accidentally undid before he stepped down as Admin. Two of the BS names are back in the ban again and so is his primary IP. Last time I had checked a few weeks ago they weren't.
So I did misspeak slightly - BS under two of his names and one of his IP addresses is still banned but no one else is. |
DOH! I guess I owe Bluesky an apology. Nah, eff that!
Ah, just use the darn place for a bomb practice zone, thats all....
| QUOTE |
| Ah, just use the darn place for a bomb practice zone, thats all.... |
Hey "ED"! Why don't you take go take a flying leap! :cheese:
and I landed on a Milkvech weed....see, they do have a use after all....
[quote]and I landed on a Milkvech weed....see, they do have a use after all....[/quote]
:roll: :yawn: :snore:
:roll: :yawn: :snore:
Bluedouche! Off roaders don't ruin the enviroment, people do! Have you been to a campground lately? Unless continually picked up by park staff, trash will accumilate until it covers the ground. Humans do not prefer to sh!t in the wild. When you gotta go you gotta go. Be it in Moab, the Dunes or on a mountain trail-ON FOOT! Do you realize how many times the local Park Ranger has to clean up a pinata? Or stop kids from shooting BB guns at the wildlife? Parking off pavement, hanging sh!t in trees, cutting tree limbs for firewood, carving initials into trees, graffiti? People drink! LOTS! Go to the nearest open space preserve. You will find bag fulls of beer bottles and cans. You will find evidence of illegal fires, parties and hiking off trail.
Compare the ISDRA after a big weekend and your local park immediately after Easter. You'll be surprised what a group of non-offroaders are capable of.
Compare the ISDRA after a big weekend and your local park immediately after Easter. You'll be surprised what a group of non-offroaders are capable of.
[quote]Compare the ISDRA after a big weekend and your local park immediately after Easter. You'll be surprised what a group of non-offroaders are capable of[/quote]
That's because most people don't have the appreciation for the land as we the OHV community have. I was taught from a young age, pack it in, pack it out. When we were kids my parents would make us pick up all the trash in the area that we were using.
We would say, That's not our trash over there. My Dad would say, I don't care. Pick it up and put it in the trash bag! Now I understand why he had us do it and we have our kids do the same.
A little extra effort never hurt anyone and it's to bad that more people don't do it! It seems that the OHV community understands this. I seem see numerous familys and groups doing this in the desert, at the river and at the dunes.
That's because most people don't have the appreciation for the land as we the OHV community have. I was taught from a young age, pack it in, pack it out. When we were kids my parents would make us pick up all the trash in the area that we were using.
We would say, That's not our trash over there. My Dad would say, I don't care. Pick it up and put it in the trash bag! Now I understand why he had us do it and we have our kids do the same.
A little extra effort never hurt anyone and it's to bad that more people don't do it! It seems that the OHV community understands this. I seem see numerous familys and groups doing this in the desert, at the river and at the dunes.
Afer 5 months I figured Bluesky woulda run out of shit to make up about Duners, but some things never change. :hot:
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