I have a few questions:

1. Are many of you going to be using them this upcoming season?

2. Is everyone that is going to use them, going to use the preset 16 "off-road" channels designated by PCI?

3. Has anyone designated a GD.com channel/frequency yet?

4. Does anyone have the 16 preset frequencies used by PCI designated as "off-road" channels?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cost and the hassle of a license keep most away from VHF. We'll have the Garmin Rhino 120 GPS/FRS/GMRS unit and we usually run on 9/11

Bill...

What a timely question....As hozay said, there are definitely some issues to be considered. The biggest benefit to the vhf is the range, as they have much more power than say frs/gmrs. And the biggest benefit to frs/gmrs is cost and availability.

So, to that end, there are a couple of us that are on a quest similar to what happened with the quad comm systems a couple years ago, and while the worst thing to say is "stay tuned", that's where we are at on our plans with this.

Our first effort is going to be with an frs based system. The concept being that it appears to be the most affordable system. It's our thought that for glamis at least, we have cell phone coverage if we needed to contact camp or emergency help, and that our big benefit would be car-car-bike comm during a run.

We know this isn't a perfect solution for everyone, and from my research, I haven't really found that answer for all.

After talking to "whomever answers the phone" at PCI Radio, I was informed they were setting up VHF radios for the "desert" people at 50 Watts unlicenced on 2 Watt Business Band frequencies.. 151.625 to be exact.

Special Industrial VHF Black 167.7300 167.7300
Special Industrial VHF Blue 154.5700 154.5700
Special Industrial VHF Green 154.6000 154.6000
Special Industrial VHF Purple 151.9550 151.9550
Special Industrial VHF Red 151.6250 151.6250

Any one of the frequencies above are 2 Watts Max TX power.

You can file for VHF frequencies and a renew is about $35.00 a year.. Unless of course you let it expire. I would recommend that.

Very timely indeed. Thinking of pulling the trigger at the SSSS, but I want something that talks to my buddies (vhf/ uhf?? they dont have radios yet either), talks to other groups, and has the ability to talk to to the FRS/GMRS units I want to give the kids on the quads. I dont want to pay $300 for each kids radio, thats why I was thinking FRS/ GMRS. I am even considering ham units. I dont mind giving up the VHF and the range, but I dont want to go on a ride with a GD.com group and not be able to chat...

I just added the pci system to my car and I left all the channels the same as the radio was shipped, I was thinking I will just pick one of the channels on there and use it until somebody comes on and tells me to shut up, then I will switch to the next channel, I dont think that all of the channels set up for the race teams will be very busy on a non race weekend in the dunes.

Hey Duneflyer, any chance you are able to talk to one of the FRS radios with that thing?

I have no idea who I will be able to talk to, heck I dont even know if I installed it right, I tried it this weekend just going thru the channels and was asking for a radio check and got no replies, I need to go out with some one else that has the system so I can check it out.

^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^

Hey Duneflyer, if you dont mind me asking what all came with the PCI system and about how much was it?

1599.00, 4 head sets, intercom w/ipod cable, race radio, antenna, I am sure you will be able to beat that price this weekend at the show.

i am not an expert but i have done some checking and the race radio is not going to be able to talk with frs radios . but i did find a company who sells a dual band radio for a good pricew . i talked with him he said he can program it to the frs band no problem and it will do the race radio band also . he has one model that will montitor both at the same time
FT-8800R
Accessories
VHF/UHF Two Way
1000 Channels
144-148 & 430-450 MHz

50/35 Watts 389.95


http://www.theantennafarm.com
the frs radios are alot less so buying them for my sons is what i did ,then i also want to talk to the guys with the race radios so this solves my problem as probably some of you have the same problem . i got my sons a helmet headphone set with handlebar mounted ptt switch for like 35.00 have not tried it the real world but here at the house it seems to do well as far hearing and talking though revving the motor at the house is not real world . i have torn down my car and repodercoat it while it is down i will have justin do a intercom and i will buy this radio . i will lket you guys know it works . the radio is a vertex/ yaesu so it should be a good one and a lot less from this guy than the std race radio . tim

You guys may want to drop Mac a message, he has a VHF radio from his Baja pitting days for his truck, he got a great deal for it and has some good info about the whole license dilema. We originally were going to have a "base radio" at camp for the family and handhelds for the bikes...It's still a good idea but the execution hasn't materialized. He may have answers to your questions.

Geoff

I bought race radio from PCI also and left the channels as is. Hopefully I have time to mount it before I'm plan on buying the software to program different channels if I find I need to change what's on there now.

Huddy, did you install a system in your car? I'd be interested to see how it's mounted if you have.

Wuerth motorsports is installing it with a new dash and hood He is going to put the squelch (sp) box in the dash and mount the car to car radio under the dash. I'm also going to use the channels as is. I doubt that the McMillins and other channel owners will be duning much and if they are (and in line of sight) I will promptly change frequencies---Huddy

A good option is to buy a 5 watt VHF radio for $100. The range will be much better than FRS and you gain compatiblity with others on VHF. Here's a real durable programmable VHF radio that can be easily mounted and also be portable, a good alternative to FRS cheapo radio. You get much better flexibilty with something like this IMHO, unless all your friends are using FRS.

On another related topic.... I've always thought the duning community should decide upon a specific VHF frequency to be the hailing channel, similar to Ch16 on a marine radio. This would be used specifically for hailing others to locate them, then immediately go to another channel to chat. It also becomes handy for emergencies, possibly something BLM could start monitoring. This idea would only work with VHF monitoring since it has such long range 20+ miles. The BLM monitoring FRS wouldn't make sense with such a shorter range. FRS users would need to use cellphones in emergencies (don't forget to program in the ranger station phone#)

The problem with a "duning hailing channel" is communicating what channel to switch to when you want to chat. Duners don't have common VHF channels with two digit channel numbers, and you don't want to be saying "lets go to frequency 151.160Mhz" Huh? What was that? Many VHF radios won't even tell you the frequency, they only show a 2 digit channel and you have to memorize the frequency (yeah, like that will happen).

So.... we really need to standardize a set of VHF channels, such as channels 1 through 30, with specific frequencies assigned for each channel for "duning compatibliity". That way all duners and desert racers could buy a radio with it programmed to have the same frequency for channel 12, or 23, etc, mimicing what sailors have done with marine radios. Except in our case they would be difference VHF frequencies for duners. This idea of course would take a massive communication effort in the duning community by groups such as PCI, Desert Communications, ASA, Glamis.com, and the SSSS in an effort to standard the frequencies. If standard frequencies>Ch#s could be agreed upon, that's the first step. If that could be accomplished we wouldn't have to ask the question that started this thread.

The timing may be right for such an effort, given the popularity of VHF radios in cars/quad/bikes. The question is who can organize it?

That would be Beachhead!

Best thing to do is contact your local Two-Way Radio Shop.. Reputable one that is..

Most Two-Way Radio shops can offer repeater service and even carry the license for use of community repeaters for a small monthly fee. Most will even work a seasonal deal for that service. There are MANY radios on the market that will work and many reputable shops that will provide the right service and keep you legal.

If I remember correctly, t2duner was offering up information about some service that is available in glamis.. Might want to give him a shot.

I have a PCI radio in my car and one in the RV. I have full communication with my family if I'm out solo in the car or just want to call the wife to get lunch ready . I have also used it car to car and works awesome. The channels that PCI installs are pretty standard race channels. No interference from my experience. Not in Glamis at least. Ya should get one. Duneflyer, what channel are you usually on?

Frank

I really hate to bare the bad news, but a lot of what is being discussed in this post is not quite legal.

I'm not an FCC Nazi, but I just think that we owe it to ourselves to do things the right way. Most of us don't take a hack approach when it comes to components for our off-road toys. Then why hack some communication system together. Get something started on the proper path.

I'm worried that the dunes and other popular off-road areas may develop a concentration of FCC violations and attract FCC attention and strict enforcement. Heck it's attracted nearly every government agency already, why not the FCC. A successful coordination here, using the wrong equipment or operating practices could easily attract big brother.

The equipment and licensing needed to handle the terrain and distance at Glamis is best addressed best addressed with amateur radio "Ham gear/licensing. The overall cost is extremely low; the equipment is far cheaper and equal to commercial equipment. Frankly I'm surprised that it has not yet been mentioned as an option in this post.

I think everybody avoids the ham issue because of the test to get the license. It's not that hard. The study book costs only $18 and takes about 2 hours each night for 2 - 3 weeks to fully digest. The test costs about $14, and your license is good for ten years. It costs 10 bucks to renew it for another 10 years and so on. Once you complete the studying, you will know how radio frequencies work and how to setup and troubleshoot equipment. It's actually fun. There are nearly 1 million Ham operators in the US. Alaska and Canada lives and breaths on it.

The number of Hams in the dunes is growing. I know of about 30 that have already gone this route for off-road communications. A few more in my group are in the process of becoming licensed now. Coverage in the entire Imperial Valley is possible with a 25 watt Ham radio and a decent antenna. $180 can buy everything you need to do the job and connect to your intercom system if you want. Cheaper used equipment is also easy to get. The features are endless or simple; you can choose. The radio in my buggy puts out 75 watts and cost around $210 with a real good antenna. I can talk from Test Hill to the glamis store area with 10 watts and no repeater.

Somebody here was talking about coordinating communications with law enforcement and emergency service. It's already being done on the big weekends with Ham radio and in a general sense, it’s being done every minute, every day, all the time via old Hams that reside and monitor the repeaters form Yuma, Brawley and El Centro.

If it can’t be done the right way, then just use the FRS toy stuff or CB. Unfortunately most of what I’m recommending won’t make much business for P.C.I., who is a big off-road advocate.

If you have questions let me hear them. If you have something negative to say that’s interesting too.

Sandhead, good points, but I like others will not spend 2 hours a night on homework for 2 weeks without receiving a paycheck for the effort to talk on a cb 30 minutes a year. Good points that you brought up though. So, WildBill has asked what are we all going to agree to talk on for frequency? Should we all go get a PCI like Duneflyer and Nextasex and run the channels as they come. Let's agree and buy it this weekend?

Thanks

I dont have a normal channel, I just installed the system and I am not even sure that it works, (nobody to talk to out there last weekend) what channel do you stay on? I will also be installing a base radio in the trailer to talk back to camp.

I have just stayed on BFGPITS channel. It didn't really matter what channel I was on, they all work great. I talked to my base at Gecko all the way from the washes. It's pretty nice to be able to communicate! But as the season comes up, those of us with radios should agree to monitor a certain channel so we can look out for each other. As far as buying radios this weekend as DIRTYWHITEBOY mentioned, DO IT!! PCI gives out great deals and even better customer service!

Frank

I've heard the FCC will be losening up the VHF regs to allow 5 watt radios w/o a license, or maybe it was a simple form $5 license (no test). That came from my local licensed ham operator down the street. What do you know about that?

Watching and waiting, reading to see how things turn out. Needing to get some kind of communications in the buggy also.

I'll stick with Hozay and EZRider...I see you... and everyone else who has them and stay with my Rhino's.

9/11 when with the group. higher channels with more power when just me and Conner

hey sandhead I have a ham license. what should i get to set up helmet commuinications??

thanks

Hoverman - try this http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-293I.jpg it's worth trying for 24 bucks. A ham friend uses it while riding his dualsport motorcycle. He says it works ok. I'm going to try one very soon with my Icom V8000 in my buggy. I'll try to write a report on it after my 1st trip to the Dez.

I also pertty sure P.C.I. has a helmet setup. It's basically the gutts from their Avcom headsets which has excellent VOX and audio I'm told.

Seaduner Quote - I've heard the FCC will be losening up the VHF regs to allow 5 watt radios w/o a license, or maybe it was a simple form $5 license (no test). That came from my local licensed ham operator down the street. What do you know about that?

Seaduner - The ARRL reports about many of the changes to FCC laws, policies and enforcement activities. I haven't read about any losening, only tightening reguarding the commercial VHF bands. however I'll sniff around and see if I can find anything about it. I haven't looked at the whole GRMS thing for a while anyway.

I think your local Ham is talking about General Mobile Radio Service "GMRS" which is UHF. the license is $80 for five years.

The following is from: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm...=general_mobile
_________________________________________________________________________________________

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

The General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) is a land-mobile radio service available for short-distance two-way communications to facilitate the activities of an adult individual and his or her immediate family members, including a spouse, children, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, and in-laws (47 CFR 95.179). Normally, as a GMRS system licensee, you and your family members would communicate among yourselves over the general area of your residence or during recreational group outings, such as camping or hiking.

The FCC grants five-year renewable licenses for GMRS Systems. The individual licensee is responsible for the proper operations of the licensed GMRS system at all times.

FRS/GMRS Dual Service Radios
Some manufacturers have received approval to market radios that are certified for use in both the Family Radio Service (FRS) and the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). Other manufacturers have received approval of their radios under the GMRS rules, but market them as FRS/GMRS radios on the basis that:

* Some channels are authorized to both services, or
* A user of the radio may communicate with stations in the other service.

Radios marketed as "FRS/GMRS" or "dual-service radios" are available from many manufacturers and many retail or discount stores. The manual that comes with the radio, or the label placed on it by the manufacturer, should indicate the service the unit is certified for. If you cannot determine what service the unit may be used in, contact the manufacturer.

If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a maximum power of ½ watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have detachable antennas. The current fee for a new GMRS license is $80.

Licensing
Before any station transmits on any channel authorized in the GMRS from any point within or over the territorial limits of any area where the FCC regulates radio services, the responsible party must obtain a license. The FCC usually grants GMRS system licenses for a five-year term. To apply for a GMRS system license, you may file online through the Universal Licensing System (ULS), or file FCC Form 605 manually. New filers can learn more about ULS in its getting started tutorials. See Fee Requirements for FCC Form 605 (pdf) for current licensing fee information.

What they said.............intercom alone is worth the price, maybe this season I can talk to someone car to car. time will tell............

- Walt

For what it's worth, I'm going with the PCI set up and their 16 off-road channels.

Good choice. We can look out for the radio frequency Police together....if they indeed exist.

Do it!!

Yeah, wished I had gotten the hood also. I was worried about visibility, but after driving the car for a season I think I would have been better off with the hood. You'll have to post some pix when it's done.


On topic,
I'm planning on just using my PCI radio on what every channel works best or whatever my buddies have available for this season. I’ll probably end up taking the ham test at some point, but only because it's something that interests me.

Sweet...see you out at G.

I changed gears today...

I purchased a Yaesu FT-60R dual band radio. I programed in the 16 frequencies that PCI uses (VHF). I then programmed in the FRS channel 9-11 (UHF). So I can now communicate to whatever type of radio everyone might have out there.

The headsets are behind the head and have plugs on both earpieces. That way you can plug in on either side and avoid having a cord stretching across your chest.

BTW I recommend the gel ear cups and the cotton covers.

I have the PCI channels if anyone needs them. PM me and I will forward them to you.

I was thinking dual band radios tonight too. I was playing with my Yaesu VX5R and programmed FRS freqs into it and it works fine. I looked around and found this too: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/0272.html

It has the ability to monitor 2 bands at the same time. I may go with this one.

What do you think?

All the Yaesu's can monitor both bands long as you have the frequencies in your presets. Think about how nice this is; some people can be on one band, some on another, and we will be able to hear and communicate with all.

Since people are using a combination of VHF and UHF, I think this is the only way to go.

Does it require two antennas?

I know that antennas need be a fixed height relative to the wave length (frequency band) so if there is a large different in the frequency band by using only one antenna it will either be optimize for one band and not work well on another, or it will be "in between" and work only so-so on both.

Or I could be wrong about all this..

One antenna. It will work great in Glamis. Don't get all hyped up on power and what not; Glamis is tiny for VHF radios.

Dual band antennas.. 150-460MHz.. 2/5 dB gain

I think you should be able to

I'm not sure he has a dual band radio.

thought I would never say this but I am a bit bummed that I do not go both ways. I will see how my set up works and then see if a change is in order, the dual band sounds like the way to go, how big is the radio?

The one I posted above looks to be the same size, but the face can mount separately from the "brain" unit. The "brain" can go under a seat.


DISCLAIMER I have not used the radio in the link, but I did test use of FRS with a different handheld I have. Should work the same with more features.

[attachmentid=103002]

I was looking at one similar to this, but one of things that stopped me was that they were cooled with a fan or fans and had big openings for the fans to draw air (and dirt) over the electronics. I just didn't think they'd last to long with all that dust building up inside. I want with the ICOM from PCI it's supposedly sealed and has a big heat sink on the back for cooling, no cooing fans to pull in all the dust.

Is that a hand held unit?

Yes it is.