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Voice: Editorial not fair to conservationists Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:20 PM PDT Re: \"Ramping up,\" I.V. Press editorial, May 28. I.V. Press editors missed the truth several times with this one-sided editorial about the Algodones Dunes. Next time we hope you will speak with conservationists. First, conservationists did offer many detailed comments to BLM during development of the new dunes plan. We had people at every public hearing and submitted detailed written comments. Thousands of citizens nationwide wrote to Bureau of Land Management, urging them to maintain the balanced 50/50 management on their public lands at the dunes. The anti-environmental Bush administration and BLM chose to ignore them. Second, while criticizing us for working within the court system, you miss the fact that the off-road industry has several current lawsuits against the BLM regarding the dunes and other public land. These are frivolous cases without merit, but the industry has a right to try them. Third, you miss the fact that visitation dramatically increased at the dunes during the last two and a half years of balanced dunes management — clearly conservation was not harming the local economy. You offer no evidence that single-use management to please the off-road industry will benefit the local economy. And you fail to include valid perspectives that continuing conservation will diversify dunes visitation and increase local spending. The BLM plan for the Algodones Dunes is anything but fair and reasonable. It is a one- sided scam to sacrifice beautiful and biologically diverse public lands to one minority group at the expense of all other citizens and wildlife. The Bush administration ignored the compelling national opinion for conservation in preparing this destructive one-sided plan. This industry-serving arrogance is why BLM will be back in court. It is unfortunate that the I.V. Press also ignored the upside of conservation in its editorial. DANIEL R. PATTERSON Desert Ecologist Center for Biological Diversity   Tucson RON GAUL Ocotillo TERRY WEINER Conservation coordinator Desert Protective Council San Diego ELDEN HUGHES Chairman Sierra Club, desert committee Whittier KEITH HAMMOND Communications director California Wilderness Coalition Davis

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Thousands of citizens nationwide wrote to Bureau of Land Management, urging them to maintain the balanced 50/50 management on their public lands at the dunes

50/50 my ass. >:< >:< >:< Im in the mood for an execution.. man this chaps my hide..
WTF does a maggot in the swamps of LA care about the sand in CA. He is so full of $hit its amazing!!!!

and and and and.. >:< :black: >:<

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It is a one- sided scam to sacrifice beautiful and biologically diverse public lands to one minority group at the expense of all other citizens and wildlife.

Then get your FAT AZZ out there where we can see that you actually give a $hit. Get the NATIONS peoples out there for a HIKE. I want to see foot steps..

errrrrrgggghhhhhhh.. Blood is boiling.... Lets see.. Barret .50, scope. full metal jacket mag.. see ya later.. :bash:

Well to start with Chummin ,, this maggot from the swamps of LA
does care about the dunes (sand in CA.) I would like to get D.P.
in the swamps and leave him. Problem solved. I think people see his $hit
flowing for what it is. Good people with any smarts at all knows his kind
are like dingalberries. They just hang around to stur up the $hit.

off-roader to American public:

do you mind if I tear up the lands with my toys? Is it OK if my hobby threatens the existence of rare plants and animals found only where I ride?

I mean, it's public land right? I'm the public right?

Oh, other members of the public who notice my activities and resist them are maggots and live in a swamp and have no rights to their opinions and efforts to protect American public lands.

I'm glad you agree with me!

You want to hike in the sand blu??? Well, there is the 30,000 acre designated wilderness area on the north side of hwy 78 since the mid 70s. Now answer this and don't start with all the bull crap again. How many times have you ever hiked there, if ever????? Just one simple question.

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off-roader to American public: do you mind if I tear up the lands with my toys?  Is it OK if my hobby threatens the existence of rare plants and animals found only where I ride? I mean, it's public land right?  I'm the public right?   Oh, other members of the public who notice my activities and resist them are maggots and live in a swamp and have no rights to their opinions and efforts to protect American public lands. I'm glad you agree with me!

Eco nut to American public:

Do you mind if I take your land away from anyone with a motorized vehicle? Make rules and laws that keep out a large percentage of the population while being tailer made for me and my peers? How about all those offroaders that have spent thousands of dollars per person on their prefered recreation. I don't like them so do you mind if we do away with them on public lands? It's all about what is best for mother nature and I say what is best for mother nature ok? Anyone want some granola? It is public land and I am the public right? I'll just make up your minds for you. You don't have to do a thing. Just sit back in your easy chairs and forget you even heard me say this. It will all be over in a little bit.

Words are easy to turn around BlueSky. It's the truth that is hard to refute.

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You want to hike in the sand blu???  Well, there is the 30,000 acre designated wilderness area on the north side of hwy 78 since the mid 70s. Now answer this and don't start with all the bull crap again. How many times have you ever hiked there, if ever????? Just one simple question.

That is a question I doubt Blu will answer......


But here's one directed at So Called "Conservationist's" at large....
And one I'd like to ask the membership of these various groups....

If you were successful at closing down the Dunes, Where would all of the off-road community ride? Forest's, Private property? That strip of land next to your house? Yosemite? The Sierra's?

The Desert is the perfect place for this kind of activity, It is away from residential dwellings, There is minimal impact to the land ( Compared to the damage that could be wrought in a forest etc.) Fewer animals are impacted. ( mostly Insects and rats ) Fewer plants are impacted ( mostly weeds that would survive anything anyway)

If we are the minority (Duners) where and who are the majority??
I have been going to Glamis for 20 years and have never seen anyone walking across the dunes on purpose..... ever.

If your answer to the first part of this post is: "We'd rather you didn't ride at all" because of the impact you ( off-roaders) have on the environment, then I submit to you that you should not drive a car. Use petroleum based products, or use the toilet.

I believe the true reason for so called conservationist's to protest our use of public land is for the shear love of protesting period. If they weren’t protesting OHV use they would be protesting something...anything!

Why not focus your efforts on World Hunger? Illiteracy? The homeless?
The Bush administrations quest for World domination?

No you'd rather focus on a desolate area of land ignored by the general populace, a land that regenerates itself via wind and sand movement, a land with sparse vegetation or wildlife to be impacted, from a group , the only group that cares enough about the area to stage clean ups , and the only group that actually uses the area.

The days are past when we the public , The offroad public, are going to sit back and let the Sierra club and other groups like them ride rough shod over our right to utilize the land that our tax dollars support.

We made a deal. The North side of 78 is set apart as a desert sanctuary
( not that even one person takes the time to hike into it and enjoy its natural beauty) The South side is ours. Why can't the conservationist’s live up to their part of the deal?

Bluesky to the world:

I dont like offroader so lets do away with them. Ignore the fact that there is no real science to back up the claims I make about them harming the environment. I think they do ,so it must be true! Ive made up my mind and Im not going to let something small like facts and science get in the way.

He doesn't want to get rid of us. He just wants us to ride in urban OHV parks, or on private land (as long as we don't kill any plants or bugs, or create any emissions).

Oh wait. Now I'm going to get yelled at for speaking for him. Oh well.

Me to Bluedouche-

I've never been to your house, but I want you out of it. I realize I have no interest in your home but I hear it's a pig sty. Even though you say you clean it well, I don't believe you. I have seen left wing extremist enviromentalist on TV. You must be one of them. You use your home for growing Marijuana and plotting attacks on logging companies. Your home needs to be used for good not your own destructive ideas. Even though I don't know where you live. Except on a map. I'm sure, as an off-roader, I can decide how to run your home better.

[quote] Thousands of citizens nationwide wrote to Bureau of Land Management, urging them to maintain the balanced 50/50 management on their public lands at the dunes.[/quote]


And thousands more wrote the BLM and said that most of the restrictions that the ECO'S wanted to put in place are BULLSH*T !!! :x

[quote]These are frivolous cases without merit, but the industry has a right to try them.
[/quote]

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! :roll:

[quote]Third, you miss the fact that visitation dramatically increased at the dunes during the last two and a half years of balanced dunes management[/quote]

I see, More people went to the dunes to enjoy the "conservation" ! What a frigging moron!

ECO-ELITIST TO EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME!

Do you mind if I trample on your rights as an individual, your private property rights, or your Constitutional right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS? Is it OK if I try to destroy everything that I personally have a untempered hatred of. Regardless of the facts at hand or the scientific study that say's otherwise. Everything that I dislike should be banned because I think that is the way it should be.

I mean, they're just your rights, They don't mean much in comparison to "endangered" species. Or using the ESA to gain control of the areas that the personally loathed recreation is taking place on.

Oh, others who want to enjoy the outdoors, express their individual freedoms or enjoy their public lands are all alcoholic maniacs who are Hell bent on destroying the desert and killing all the cute, fuzzy, little animals. Then they can move on to "all" of the other "open" areas that are available to them.

If you don't agree with ME. Or try to protect your rights, freedoms or way of life! I and the other eco-elitist will just sue you into compliance!

NOW KNEEL BEFORE THE ALMIGHTY [/b]****

Dude, I sense some underlying hostility there. How do you really feel.

[quote]The Desert is the perfect place for this kind of activity, It is away from residential dwellings, There is minimal impact to the land ( Compared to the damage that could be wrought in a forest etc.) Fewer animals are impacted. ( mostly Insects and rats ) Fewer plants are impacted ( mostly weeds that would survive anything anyway) [/quote]

Off highway vehicles have created so many trails in the desert--up every hilltop, the sides of every gorge and sandwash--that the desert is looking ugly. People who stay on the dirt roads and want to just park and be awed by nature's subtle beauty are confronted with sand pits left over from 30 years of intensive use by off-roaders. You can't park and walk across the desert without having your afternoon interrupted by dirt bikers riding over to see if your car is abandoned.

The minimal impact you speak of has led to the endangerment of the keystone species--the indicator of the desert's health--the tortoise. The native flora of the desert is fragile and takes decades to grow back after impacts from vehicles have killed them.

My point is that off-roaders should seek a solution that will be sustainable. Every year we have more riders and more impacts to the land. There are literally hundreds of thousands of acres already set aside for riding in the OPEN areas. You've seen what can happen to an OPEN area like Glamis. If you don't monitor your impacts, the BLM can close it down. Riders' advocates should get serious about maintaining the ecological health of the OPEN areas. Rotate the trails, require user education about the wildlife and motorized impacts, keep up the great work with the cleanups.

Much of the riding done in the desert is indiscriminate--riders don't know if the land is public or private. As the OHV situation in CA gets worse, private landowners are banding together in clubs to sign and patrol their lands.

I think the OHV public has a legitimate gripe. the gripe is: Why market a product (the vehicle) if there's no place to ride it?

We live in a Laissez-faire economy. The dirt-bike industry must know that impacts to the land will eventually shut down their industry. So they are trying to sell as many units now while they still can. It is not the responsibility of the American public to provide this industry with a place to ride its products--especially when those products leave such a visible and indelible mark on our lands.

Nature advocates are using existing laws to resist the destruction of our natural landscape.

As mentioned on these and other forums, the real threatened species is the dirt rider. This is a hobby that cannot continue in its presert format.

You need some sort of low flying noiseless, non-polluting vehicle. Some inventor will come up with it and we'll have a vehicle that can be used sustainably in the desert landscapes. I'll get one too and we can have a cold one together around the camp fire![/i]

[quote]You want to hike in the sand blu??? Well, there is the 30,000 acre designated wilderness area on the north side of hwy 78 since the mid 70s. Now answer this and don't start with all the bull crap again. How many times have you ever hiked there, if ever????? Just one simple question.[/quote]

I really didn't expect to get a direct response to a direct question. Over and out.

[quote="Bluesky"][quote] There are literally hundreds of thousands of acres already set aside for riding in the OPEN areas. [/i][/quote]

That number dwindles every year as the eco's try to take every last acre away from us. How many legal riding area's are there that have no opposition from the green side as opposed to legal riding area's that are threatened with closure? Hardly any open OHV area hasn't been challenged.

You said that it isn't the publics duty to provide off roaders with a place to recreate. As a member of the public and as someone who pays in to the green sticker fund that is not only for upkeep of our available OHV areas but for the creation of new ones, I beg to differ.

[quote]Off highway vehicles have created so many trails in the desert--up every hilltop, the sides of every gorge and sandwash--that the desert is looking ugly.[/quote]

When you start off a long tirade with a blatant lie, you are dismissed out of hand. EVERY hill. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Another good delivery from the dealer there crackhead?

ANYONE UP FOR "TRAIL RIDE" IN GLAMIS? :roll: :shocked:

[quote]I really didn't expect to get a direct response to a direct question. Over and out.[/quote]

One thing you can say for the Troll... it sure is consistent :roll:

Vicki

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Off highway vehicles have created so many trails in the desert--up every hilltop, the sides of every gorge and sandwash--that the desert is looking ugly.

Every hill top eh. So of all the hundreds of square miles of desert in California, every hilltop has a dirt bike trail going up it. With thinking like that no wonder you have such a warped view. You obviously don't know diddly about the desert. Although you are a expert on cut and paste. So why don't you find something to enlighten me with. :roll:

Just a thought. With this onesided talk the enviros are crying about. If they somehow won control of all of the Imperial sand dunes, do you think they would set aside 50% of it for us to ride on? Not a chance in hell. >:<