A guy posted this over on HB and I was wondering if anyone else heard the same thing.
"I heard from a very good source that BLM is planning on banning all rhinos at all BLM riding areas because of the deaths this past weekend. I guess they are going to vote on it in the next week or so. This could put a huge damper on the rhino owners. No Glamis and no Octillio Wells. Keep your ears open and see if it happens"
I dont see how this could happen without banning a lot of the homemade crap as well.
Full Version: Blm And Rhinos At The Dunes
I haven't heard a word about it ... and I'm betting that it's 100% 
BTW, Ocotillo Wells is not BLM ...I'd like to know who the "very good source" is
Sounds like someone was talking out their ass.
I would think they would ban 2 wheelers and ATC's before they thought about Rhino's
Might as well ban everything then!
I have not seen anything on the ASA BOD email list that has even mentioned this. While the BLM does not consult the ASA on every move they make, given the obvious popularity of these vehicles at the ISDRA, and the huge impact that tactic would cause, I would think that they would have approached someone, and it would be a big topic of discussion.
As hozay said, Ocotillo is not a part of the ISDRA, regardless of what some uninformed newspapers try to claim..
My guess is it's just a rumor using the government's knack for kneejerk reactions to get the pot boiling.
As hozay said, Ocotillo is not a part of the ISDRA, regardless of what some uninformed newspapers try to claim..
My guess is it's just a rumor using the government's knack for kneejerk reactions to get the pot boiling.
I call too
too
I think that some one should call yamaha on their seatbelts though?
doubt that.... I could see more enforcement for every little BS thing on a side by side... that would be the norm when there is a problem with a certain group of people.
Keep the rumor alive, I'm waiting for the Rhino prices to drop!
QUOTE(GlamisSpider @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999603[/snapback]
I think that some one should call yamaha on their seatbelts though?
Whattya mean? Hard to make people wear them.......although it would be cool to make it impossible to start the thing unless they were all buckled in!
the freekin BLM doesn't work that fast!!!! they have to have a meeting, form a committee, go to hawaii, spend some more taxpayer money, form another committee.............get it???
QUOTE(richard cheese @ Dec 1 2006, 10:05 AM) [snapback]1999646[/snapback]
the freekin BLM doesn't work that fast!!!! they have to have a meeting, form a committee, go to hawaii, spend some more taxpayer money, form another committee.............get it???
go to hawaii!!!! I love that!
QUOTE(BeachHead @ Dec 1 2006, 09:38 AM) [snapback]1999591[/snapback]
I have not seen anything on the ASA BOD email list that has even mentioned this. While the BLM does not consult the ASA on every move they make, given the obvious popularity of these vehicles at the ISDRA, and the huge impact that tactic would cause, I would think that they would have approached someone, and it would be a big topic of discussion.
As hozay said, Ocotillo is not a part of the ISDRA, regardless of what some uninformed newspapers try to claim..
My guess is it's just a rumor using the government's knack for kneejerk reactions to get the pot boiling.
While I agree with you on everything you said, I do recall that the ICBOS closed Comp hill at the request of ICSO without consulting with anyone in the duning community, it was a closed door meeting, IIRC.
I do agree that it would be highly unlikely, but if we've learned anything from history...
it's that the ICBOS thrives on kneejerk reactions and does so without contacting the ASA about it. Ocotillo Wells is also in Imperial County, so if the ICBOS wants to do it at the behest of the ICSO, the BLM need not be involved, and they can do it county wide.
yes steve, I completely agree with you too. I've already asked if anyone else has heard of any talk of something like this. If I hear anything, I'll be sure to pass it along. But you are correct...it very well could happen without anyone in the dune community being aware until it takes an act of congress to fix it.
But I still believe it's only a nasty rumor at this point.
But I still believe it's only a nasty rumor at this point.
Call Neil and ask.
Neil was in a meeting but I spoke to Dallas. He said their was nothing going around their office of the sort. "Sounds like a rumor to me".
Neil is going to call me later, I'll keep all of you posted. I would not get excited though, it sounds like BS to me.
Neil is going to call me later, I'll keep all of you posted. I would not get excited though, it sounds like BS to me.
this really isn't much different than the asshats that put up "closed" signs at OHV areas...
Steve, while that is technically possible... for the ICBOS to create a ordinance that affects the ISDRA... it isn't within their scope to manage the ISDRA.
The meetings were not clsed door TMK... they took place at ICBOS meetings which are open to the public.
The comp. curfew was a bad precedence and seemingly one that was done in conjuction with the BLM and ICSO... that said, I don't think at this stage of the game Steve Borchard, Mike Pool, and their supperiors want to turn over the management of the ISDRA to the ICBOS.
Any action that would affect so many.. something like outlawing a certain vehicle type... would be HIGHLY unlikely at this point without first going through the TRT and user groups. People are slightly more aware of their surroundings than they were 5 years ago when the curfew went down. I just don't see it ever happening without first going through the system that's been setup.
Eh, back to the point though... IMO, this rumor is bunk.
Steve, while that is technically possible... for the ICBOS to create a ordinance that affects the ISDRA... it isn't within their scope to manage the ISDRA.
The meetings were not clsed door TMK... they took place at ICBOS meetings which are open to the public.
The comp. curfew was a bad precedence and seemingly one that was done in conjuction with the BLM and ICSO... that said, I don't think at this stage of the game Steve Borchard, Mike Pool, and their supperiors want to turn over the management of the ISDRA to the ICBOS.
Any action that would affect so many.. something like outlawing a certain vehicle type... would be HIGHLY unlikely at this point without first going through the TRT and user groups. People are slightly more aware of their surroundings than they were 5 years ago when the curfew went down. I just don't see it ever happening without first going through the system that's been setup.
Eh, back to the point though... IMO, this rumor is bunk.
I just got off the phone with Neil, no such thing is going to happen. Just gossip.
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
this really isn't much different than the asshats that put up "closed" signs at OHV areas...
Steve, while that is technically possible... for the ICBOS to create a ordinance that affects the ISDRA... it isn't within their scope to manage the ISDRA.
Then how did they enact the Comp hill curfew?
The meetings were not clsed door TMK... they took place at ICBOS meetings which are open to the public.
But the public wasn't given prior notice that the topic was on the agenda. I distinctly remember the stink raised about that, there was no input from the public or from any representative of a duning org.
The comp. curfew was a bad precedence and seemingly one that was done in conjuction with the BLM and ICSO... that said, I don't think at this stage of the game Steve Borchard, Mike Pool, and their supperiors want to turn over the management of the ISDRA to the ICBOS.
I'm not aware of anything that has changed since then. I don't track this stuff as much as other people, so those names don't ring any bells. But my memory is pretty good, and it tells me Comp Hill had a curfew enacted without any prior rumors. If there's one thing about a bad precedent, it's that its followed up by further similar actions. Meaning that even if the ICBOS had an open door meeting and sprung a new item onto the table as they did with the Comp curfew, the experiemnt succeeded. They managed to do what htey wanted, with no opposition from any member of the general public or off-road orgs.
So if they successfully pulled it off once with no ill effects to their careers, it certainly seems like they've found a new and viable way to do further business, albeit reprehensible.
Any action that would affect so many.. something like outlawing a certain vehicle type... would be HIGHLY unlikely at this point without first going through the TRT and user groups. People are slightly more aware of their surroundings than they were 5 years ago when the curfew went down. I just don't see it ever happening without first going through the system that's been setup.
Increased awareness of the powers that be and how they work may be true. But that doesn't translate into an increased respect for the wishes of the duning community. They did it in the past, by virtue of the fact that Glamis resides in their county, and they can do it again, whenever they want to. There is nothing anyone can do other than protest it. They can arbitrarily make any decision they want without public input.
Eh, back to the point though... IMO, this rumor is bunk.
I agree that the rumor has no verifiable source to substantiate it. I just want people to understand that the ICBOS can and does make capricious decisions, regardless of rumors, absence of rumors or public sentiment.
QUOTE(socaldmax @ Dec 1 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1999851[/snapback]
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
this really isn't much different than the asshats that put up "closed" signs at OHV areas...
Steve, while that is technically possible... for the ICBOS to create a ordinance that affects the ISDRA... it isn't within their scope to manage the ISDRA.
Then how did they enact the Comp hill curfew?
The meetings were not clsed door TMK... they took place at ICBOS meetings which are open to the public.
But the public wasn't given prior notice that the topic was on the agenda. I distinctly remember the stink raised about that, there was no input from the public or from any representative of a duning org.
The comp. curfew was a bad precedence and seemingly one that was done in conjuction with the BLM and ICSO... that said, I don't think at this stage of the game Steve Borchard, Mike Pool, and their supperiors want to turn over the management of the ISDRA to the ICBOS.
I'm not aware of anything that has changed since then. I don't track this stuff as much as other people, so those names don't ring any bells. But my memory is pretty good, and it tells me Comp Hill had a curfew enacted without any prior rumors. If there's one thing about a bad precedent, it's that its followed up by further similar actions. Meaning that even if the ICBOS had an open door meeting and sprung a new item onto the table as they did with the Comp curfew, the experiemnt succeeded. They managed to do what htey wanted, with no opposition from any member of the general public or off-road orgs.
So if they successfully pulled it off once with no ill effects to their careers, it certainly seems like they've found a new and viable way to do further business, albeit reprehensible.
Any action that would affect so many.. something like outlawing a certain vehicle type... would be HIGHLY unlikely at this point without first going through the TRT and user groups. People are slightly more aware of their surroundings than they were 5 years ago when the curfew went down. I just don't see it ever happening without first going through the system that's been setup.
Increased awareness of the powers that be and how they work may be true. But that doesn't translate into an increased respect for the wishes of the duning community. They did it in the past, by virtue of the fact that Glamis resides in their county, and they can do it again, whenever they want to. There is nothing anyone can do other than protest it. They can arbitrarily make any decision they want without public input.
Eh, back to the point though... IMO, this rumor is bunk.
I agree that the rumor has no verifiable source to substantiate it. I just want people to understand that the ICBOS can and does make capricious decisions, regardless of rumors, absence of rumors or public sentiment.
Yes, that is why I called Neil as soon as I read this post. He is a pretty strait forward type guy far as I can see. There is nothing wrong with just picking up the phone and calling these people. Clarity on these subjects in imperative to our livelihood. I'm not going to stand around wondering if my Rhino is going to be legal to drive around until the next trip...
It would make more sense to impose Rules and regulations regarding the operation of the Rhino. Such as safety gear required and driver's age.
QUOTE(FlyingRhino @ Dec 1 2006, 02:16 PM) [snapback]2000259[/snapback]
It would make more sense to impose Rules and regulations regarding the operation of the Rhino. Such as safety gear required and driver's age.
Just another law to screw the innocent. They should enforce what is already out there.
From what I have found out, Wild Bill is correct. There were some problems with non street legal vehicles, mostly rhino's, being operated on roads requiring street licensing over the thanksgiving holiday. As such the BLM is planning on stepping up enforcement of this. So, remember it is legal to cross a two lane road at a 90 degree angle with an ohv, but not to parallel it, either on the paving or the dirt shoulder. This was an issue at yesterdays TRT teleconference that was taped, and should be available in the future for everyone to hear.
I guess those who live at jackass acres and funco flats are in for a long ride down to wash 40ish to get to the dunes without worrying about a ticket huh?
I guess those who live at jackass acres and funco flats are in for a long ride down to wash 40ish to get to the dunes without worrying about a ticket huh?
QUOTE(socaldmax @ Dec 1 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1999851[/snapback]
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
this really isn't much different than the asshats that put up "closed" signs at OHV areas...
Steve, while that is technically possible... for the ICBOS to create a ordinance that affects the ISDRA... it isn't within their scope to manage the ISDRA.
Then how did they enact the Comp hill curfew?
The meetings were not clsed door TMK... they took place at ICBOS meetings which are open to the public.
But the public wasn't given prior notice that the topic was on the agenda. I distinctly remember the stink raised about that, there was no input from the public or from any representative of a duning org.
I wasn't around and/or involved with the ISDRA when it went all went down... all I know are documented time lines and what has been published; meeting minutes, newspaper articles, posts on these boards, etc. The first "Comp Solutions Team was created in April of 2001. User groups WERE aware of exactly what was going on. Rep(s) were there.
QUOTE(socaldmax @ Dec 1 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1999851[/snapback]
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
The comp. curfew was a bad precedence and seemingly one that was done in conjuction with the BLM and ICSO... that said, I don't think at this stage of the game Steve Borchard, Mike Pool, and their supperiors want to turn over the management of the ISDRA to the ICBOS.
I'm not aware of anything that has changed since then. I don't track this stuff as much as other people, so those names don't ring any bells. But my memory is pretty good, and it tells me Comp Hill had a curfew enacted without any prior rumors. If there's one thing about a bad precedent, it's that its followed up by further similar actions. Meaning that even if the ICBOS had an open door meeting and sprung a new item onto the table as they did with the Comp curfew, the experiemnt succeeded. They managed to do what htey wanted, with no opposition from any member of the general public or off-road orgs.
So if they successfully pulled it off once with no ill effects to their careers, it certainly seems like they've found a new and viable way to do further business, albeit reprehensible.
Steve Borchard is the current BLM California Desert District (CDD) Manager out of Moreno Valley, Mike Pool is his boss at the State level. Both appear to be very much into getting the dunes squared away... they have been very supportive of positive changes there.
Like I said, active people within the community knew exactly what was going on... I do not know to what extent it was publicized at the time though.
Main point here... The ICBOS did not take it upon themselves to create this ordinance... they were approached and asked to approve it. BLM could have done it themselves but there's about 1,000,000 times the effort of merely enacting a county ordinance... again, the ICBOS didn't dream this up on their own... it was asked for collectively by BLM and LEO...
QUOTE(socaldmax @ Dec 1 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1999851[/snapback]
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
Any action that would affect so many.. something like outlawing a certain vehicle type... would be HIGHLY unlikely at this point without first going through the TRT and user groups. People are slightly more aware of their surroundings than they were 5 years ago when the curfew went down. I just don't see it ever happening without first going through the system that's been setup.
Increased awareness of the powers that be and how they work may be true. But that doesn't translate into an increased respect for the wishes of the duning community. They did it in the past, by virtue of the fact that Glamis resides in their county, and they can do it again, whenever they want to. There is nothing anyone can do other than protest it. They can arbitrarily make any decision they want without public input.
Just because the ISDRA falls into their county does not mean that they have jurisdiction over the management of it... and yes, there are things you can do about it besides protest
QUOTE(socaldmax @ Dec 1 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]1999851[/snapback]
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1999717[/snapback]
Eh, back to the point though... IMO, this rumor is bunk.
I agree that the rumor has no verifiable source to substantiate it. I just want people to understand that the ICBOS can and does make capricious decisions, regardless of rumors, absence of rumors or public sentiment.
absolutely... no doubt about it... but if it's an ordinance that affects the ISDRA you can bet that they'll first be consulting the BLM who will assuredly be working with the TRT as well.
bottom line.. yes, they make kneejerk reactions... and no, they do not manage the ISDRA
Tree huggers are probabaly creating rumors to mess with us....
I was talking to one of the BLM guys out at superstition last week and he was way fired up. Kept saying, "thats farm equipment, they belong on a farm, not here, they belong on a farm". He was an angry man.
QUOTE(hrdtail @ Dec 2 2006, 01:53 AM) [snapback]2001067[/snapback]
I was talking to one of the BLM guys out at superstition last week and he was way fired up. Kept saying, "thats farm equipment, they belong on a farm, not here, they belong on a farm". He was an angry man.
it was fun crusing down the 78hwy at 60 mph from olds to pad 3
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