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KingGlamis
At the Off-Road Impact show in Vegas this last week the CA OHMVR Deputy Director Daphne Greene gave a good speech about the issues facing the OHV world. I found it interesting though that she claimed the enviros newest war plan is to use the issue of dust to try and shut down our riding areas. She even went so far as to say that magazine photos showing OHVs kicking up dust would be used against us.

Following her speech I was fortunate enough to get to talk to her in person for 15 minutes or so. She reaffirmed to me that this was indeed a serious issue and one that would be hard to fight. While I'm not surprised that the enviros would exploit the issue of dust further than they have in the past, I haven't found any stories about this issue to support her claim. Are they out there and I have missed them? Or maybe the enviros are planning a sneak attack?

Anyone have more info on this dust issue?


As a side note. When I suggested to her that we need Duncan Hunter as President she laughed and said, "You sound like Roy Denner." Then she went on to tell me that she's a Democrat. shocker.gif Wow, a pro-OHV Democrat fighting for us. A rare bird indeed. icon_biggrin.gif
APHANTOMDUCK
EPA Regulations on the books today regulate dust via "PM-10".

This is especially an issue in the Central Valley area of California.

I would not put it past the enviro groups to use this as a tactic to eliminate our sport.
HOGDUNER
maybe they can stop the wind also
Havasufiredog
Damn that mother nature
SailAway
There are active legal battles involving dust, even in the Imperial Valley, against the Environmental Protection Agency.

Please... does anyone really think the noise is all that keeps the OHV parks and tracks away from populated areas?

Ask the people who frequent Clear Creek if the dust issue is just a phantom.

Even in Irvine at the site of a major mall being constructed, there's a big hubbub about the dust being stirred.

No, the threat of using our dust against us is not a sneak attack and it's certainly no joke.

Vicki
KingGlamis
Hmmmm, finally found one article for AZ, and it's NOT GOOD.

QUOTE
Maricopa misses EPA's dust deadline
The Associated Press
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 01.02.2007
advertisementPHOENIX — Arizona's most populous county has missed the Environmental Protection Agency's deadline to reduce the unhealthy amount of dust in its air.
Maricopa County's deadline passed at midnight Sunday.
The county is only the second region in the nation the EPA has put on a stringent program to reduce dust in the air. Known as the Five Percent Plan, the program also is in place in California's San Joaquin Valley, which includes Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto and Stockton.
Under the program, the Maricopa Association of Governments must come up with a plan to cut 5 percent of particulate emissions from the air each year until the county reaches the federal standard.
If the county fails to meet the federal standard, it faces federal sanctions, including the loss of up to $1.1 billion in federal highway money over five years.
Last month, the Maricopa association unveiled a draft of 32 possible ways to reduce particulate emissions.
The plan includes a public outreach campaign topping $1 million that the Maricopa County Air Quality Department will roll out this month. Newspaper and TV ads will try to make residents resistant to pollution the way Smokey Bear ads warned about forest fires.
The proposal also calls for paving dirt roads and parking lots, reducing off-road vehicle use and instituting a 15-mph limit on some dirt roads as well as heavily regulating the construction industry.
The list has drawn criticism from construction industry representatives, who have balked at the suggestion that their work is responsible for more than half of the emissions.
Industry representatives say the county is cracking down harder on them to compensate for areas they can't control, such as agriculture or vehicle use.
"They're applying the tourniquet to the leg when they have a nosebleed problem," said David Martin, president of the Arizona Associated General Contractors.
The EPA limits how much particulate, essentially dust, can be in the air because the airborne substance has consequences for human health. It irritates the respiratory system and can cause lung damage and premature death. It is particularly hazardous to children, the elderly and people with respiratory problems.
"It's a basic human health issue," said Sandy Bahr, director of the Sierra Club's Grand Canyon Chapter. "We have days where children can't go outside and play, and really, that's just criminal."
In 2005, there were a record-setting 19 days in which particulate pollution exceeded the federal standard, and 2006 smashed that record, with 27 days above the limit.
Member governments of the Maricopa Association of Governments will vote to implement the measures by June and the association will submit a plan to the EPA by Dec. 31.
"If we don't, EPA is going to impose a plan on us," said Steve Owens, director of the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality. "That's a pretty powerful motivation for everybody to be at the table."
Noozeyeguy
How many millions of years of evolution, and we finally found the reason why the dinosaurs died out... dust sarcasm.gif

Welcome to the next battlefront.
YFZ4KT
Here in Las Vegas(Nevada) they are running TV commercials, " DON"T BE A DUSTHOLE" showing a dad and son on ATVs running around in the desert just the other side of a wall is a backyard bbq, with a group of people pizzzed off at the dust. Then they go on to say about breaking the crust of the desert and allowing the wind to carry more dust.....
rivermobster
you guys in AZ are in the damm stone age!!!! laughing.gif

EVERY construction site in SoCal has a sign posted in HUGE letters that says.......

IF YOU SEE DUST COMING FROM THIS SITE PLEASE CALL 1-800-ASS-HOLE IMIDATEALY!!!

and it's been going on for years...this is far from anything new.

why are we always on the defensive?????????????????????

ranting.gif
KingGlamis
QUOTE(rivermobster @ Jan 20 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]2087217[/snapback]

you guys in AZ are in the damm stone age!!!! laughing.gif

EVERY construction site in SoCal has a sign posted in HUGE letters that says.......

IF YOU SEE DUST COMING FROM THIS SITE PLEASE CALL 1-800-ASS-HOLE IMIDATEALY!!!

and it's been going on for years...this is far from anything new.

why are we always on the defensive?????????????????????

ranting.gif


I know dust has always been an issue, but they have never, to my knowledge, actually closed a riding area based on dust alone (please correct me if I am wrong). We're always on the definsive because the enviros sit at home and think "How can we close more land" while we are out riding and we come home to a bad news story and say WTF just happened? The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun. Sucks, but it's true.
rivermobster
QUOTE(KingGlamis @ Jan 20 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]2087223[/snapback]

QUOTE(rivermobster @ Jan 20 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]2087217[/snapback]

you guys in AZ are in the damm stone age!!!! laughing.gif

EVERY construction site in SoCal has a sign posted in HUGE letters that says.......

IF YOU SEE DUST COMING FROM THIS SITE PLEASE CALL 1-800-ASS-HOLE IMIDATEALY!!!

and it's been going on for years...this is far from anything new.

why are we always on the defensive?????????????????????

ranting.gif


I know dust has always been an issue, but they have never, to my knowledge, actually closed a riding area based on dust alone (please correct me if I am wrong). We're always on the definsive because the enviros sit at home and think "How can we close more land" while we are out riding and we come home to a bad news story and say WTF just happened? The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun. Sucks, but it's true.



you are so very right on this one.......

ranting.gif
Storman Norman
I have a serious amount of hate in me over this type of subject.
YFZ4KT
Every construction site here has a Dust Sign, with a number to call. All the sand a gravel pits have the same signs...Had the Dust cops come out to the pits I worked at a number of times...
KingGlamis
QUOTE(YFZ4KT @ Jan 20 2007, 09:30 PM) [snapback]2087244[/snapback]

Every construction site here has a Dust Sign, with a number to call. All the sand a gravel pits have the same signs...Had the Dust cops come out to the pits I worked at a number of times...


Yeah I get the construction site dust signs, but we have never really been targeted for riding area closures due to dust like it seems we could be now. I hope I'm wrong and this fizzles out. But we can no longer ignore these types of threats.
YFZ4KT
QUOTE(YFZ4KT @ Jan 20 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]2087174[/snapback]

Here in Las Vegas(Nevada) they are running TV commercials, " DON"T BE A DUSTHOLE" showing a dad and son on ATVs running around in the desert just the other side of a wall is a backyard bbq, with a group of people pizzzed off at the dust. Then they go on to say about breaking the crust of the desert and allowing the wind to carry more dust.....




They have been running this TV ad since the First of the year, that I know of...IT targets off road specificly, they show 2 guys riding quads...
Bluesky
QUOTE
The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun.


Some of us greenies like myself are in this for the long haul. We know that it's been 35 years since presidential directives requiring route designation and environmental inspections for ORV play areas were published.

Still there is no comprehensive education program for ORV impacts

Still ORVs are NOT REQUIRED TO SHOW VISIBLE ID ON THE VEHICLE

Riders such as KG and others think that it it is their right to impact the scenery, wildlife, health, safety and quality of life of others just so they can enjoy themselves (and make a buck in the process).

Everyday I see ORVer's ignorance and outright flouting of the laws meant to protect the environment and people's property and privacy. As I continue to work with others of like mind we are having an effect and saving lands and people's health due to our efforts. It's invigorating! It's almost as much fun as roosting a lil ol lady!
Timmay
QUOTE(Bluesky @ Jan 31 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]2108000[/snapback]

QUOTE
The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun.


Some of us greenies like myself are in this for the long haul. We know that it's been 35 years since presidential directives requiring route designation and environmental inspections for ORV play areas were published.

Still there is no comprehensive education program for ORV impacts

Still ORVs are NOT REQUIRED TO SHOW VISIBLE ID ON THE VEHICLE

Riders such as KG and others think that it it is their right to impact the scenery, wildlife, health, safety and quality of life of others just so they can enjoy themselves (and make a buck in the process).

Everyday I see ORVer's ignorance and outright flouting of the laws meant to protect the environment and people's property and privacy. As I continue to work with others of like mind we are having an effect and saving lands and people's health due to our efforts. It's invigorating! It's almost as much fun as roosting a lil ol lady!


shocker.gif
Moto13
QUOTE(Bluesky @ Jan 31 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]2108000[/snapback]

QUOTE
The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun.


Some of us greenies like myself are in this for the long haul. We know that it's been 35 years since presidential directives requiring route designation and environmental inspections for ORV play areas were published.

Still there is no comprehensive education program for ORV impacts

Still ORVs are NOT REQUIRED TO SHOW VISIBLE ID ON THE VEHICLE

Riders such as KG and others think that it it is their right to impact the scenery, wildlife, health, safety and quality of life of others just so they can enjoy themselves (and make a buck in the process).

Everyday I see ORVer's ignorance and outright flouting of the laws meant to protect the environment and people's property and privacy. As I continue to work with others of like mind we are having an effect and saving lands and people's health due to our efforts. It's invigorating! It's almost as much fun as roosting a lil ol lady!



Welcome back Bluesky... long time no see.. missed you around here..

You know, would it not make much more sense to tackle a problem at it's roots..
Rather than targeting off roaders for kicking up a little dust, why not target the true destroyers of our natural habitats.. the big boys, the manufacturing companies spewing out billions and billions of harmful particulates everyday... the gas guzzling average american like yourself driving to work and back everyday... start enforcing public transpotation.. start targeting the government to mandate laws on fuel consumption or target the automobile manufactures for producing these things to begin with..

Your attempts at trying to stop a small group of people like off roaders, is almost pointless in the overall scope of things.. We are too small of a number to make a difference. You want to save the world, go after the areas where it's gonna make a difference. We (offroaders) could all disappear off the face of the planet, and you still are going to see this planet die in 100 years.. Go after the big boys, and you might save the world..

I think maybe we (the off roaders) should get a class action law suit going against the state.. the county.. the city.. the manufacturing companies... the real polluters of our enviournment. Because they have allowed them to chase our rain away.. the most critical component in dust control... You can't stop the dust makers.. you can't stop the wind.. you can stop the ones causing our natural resources from being able to do thier jobs...

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/287/5459/1763

QUOTE
Atmospheric aerosols reflect sunlight towards space, cooling Earth, and partially counteracting the greenhouse effect. But, as Toon discusses in this Perspective, this is not the only way in which aerosols affect climate. Satellite data presented by Rosenfeld on page 1793 show substantially reduced precipitation downwind from the pollution source. The mechanisms by which pollution may suppress rain remain poorly understood, and different effects may occur depending on the type of pollution and the atmospheric conditions.
bigdan
As a Superintendent for construction in Las Vegas you are required by law to attend and carry a "Dust Card" issued by Clark County NV proving that you had attended there 4 hour class on PM10 and fugitive dust, yes I said "FUGITIVE DUST". This is a major problem for state governments because if they do not keep there dust levels low enough they will lose highway funds and the EPA can come to your state and regulate the progress of new construction, by controlling the flow of new building permits issued per year, this could kill a booming state like AZ or NV. NOT GOOD AND VERY VERY SERIOUS....... ph34r.gif

[attachmentid=134854]

Sorry, picture from phone....
RIDERED
carrot.gif Blue is back. ng.gif
HozaykwAIRvo
QUOTE(Bluesky @ Jan 31 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]2108000[/snapback]

QUOTE
The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun.


Some of us greenies like myself are in this for the long haul. We know that it's been 35 years since presidential directives requiring route designation and environmental inspections for ORV play areas were published.


35 years huh?

How long has that raggedy ass ESA thing been outdated? 25deal.gif
richierichaz
Ok what about all the horseback riders that stir up dust??? Are they going to outlaw horses also? the neighborhood I live in has a lot of horse property. Just the horses in their corrals stir up dust and it hangs there on a calm day.
9rocky
QUOTE(Bluesky @ Jan 31 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]2108000[/snapback]

QUOTE
The problem is they spend as much or more time trying to stop our fun as we do having fun.


Some of us greenies like myself are in this for the long haul. We know that it's been 35 years since presidential directives requiring route designation and environmental inspections for ORV play areas were published.

Still there is no comprehensive education program for ORV impacts

Still ORVs are NOT REQUIRED TO SHOW VISIBLE ID ON THE VEHICLE

Riders such as KG and others think that it it is their right to impact the scenery, wildlife, health, safety and quality of life of others just so they can enjoy themselves (and make a buck in the process).

Everyday I see ORVer's ignorance and outright flouting of the laws meant to protect the environment and people's property and privacy. As I continue to work with others of like mind we are having an effect and saving lands and people's health due to our efforts. It's invigorating! It's almost as much fun as roosting a lil ol lady!


It is amazing that you and "people of like mind" feel it imperative to save lands and people's health. There are 10 times as many people that do not want you to do this. You are basically telling people that they are too stupid to know what is good for them, and you and your ilk must save them from themselves. That is eliteist and wrong. Come judgement day, may you burn in hell. I for one don't need your efforts.
HozaykwAIRvo
QUOTE(richierichaz @ Feb 2 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]2114195[/snapback]

Ok what about all the horseback riders that stir up dust??? Are they going to outlaw horses also? the neighborhood I live in has a lot of horse property. Just the horses in their corrals stir up dust and it hangs there on a calm day.


if they get their way... yea

farmers, construction, ORV, horses, you name it.

...if they had their way with PM10 then you wouldn't be driving/riding anything off of the pavement ...at least not without severe restrictions and mitigation
toybreaker
There is something that i don't understand. All but a VERY SMALL portion of the ISDRA north of the 78 has been closed since the 80's?(not sure when it was closed)
and all this hoopla about a weed has closed a big portion of good riding in the south dunes. Since the northern section was already closed and it is protected habitat already how can they justify closing the south dunes for habitat protection when 1000's of acres of THE SAME HABITAT exists on the other side of CA78?

Dust is a big problem. most summers when i was growing up in Phoenix smog was lower on the health advisory than particulates. During the monsoon season you would get a big dust storm and bam! 20 minute rainstorm followed by another dust storm. Wind off of the desert, not construction or me on my honda trail 50.

We as OHV enthusiasts are a bigger number than the ecoloving bunny hugging left wingers.
We all need to get together and show our numbers at the polls. we can win this just by voting down the ANTI OHV stuff that gets onto our local and national ballots. Enlist the help of friends and family that don't follow our hobby. Get the pastor or priest to talk about it as a side note before the election. Hit it up at the raves you go to with your college buddies. Spread the word! These liberals are turning our country into a communist like state. Pretty soon if your vehicle isn't a hybrid, hydrogen or purely electric car you won't be able to drive it. Frankly i enjoy my old car and truck. And I know for a fact that my 57 bel air puts out less emissions than any 1975-1984 car or truck (that is fueled by gasoline) in an oem state of tune.


Like someone else said in their post earlier. If you ecominded individuals want to save the planet stop the crushing for credits scams. make them clean up their stack emissions. start attacking the third world countries lack of ecominded policies. Stop eating finger foods and go after a main course. MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE!

NODNARB
two words: urban sprawl. That's the real destroyer of land...and, unfortunately, most people on this site see that as "progress" and a good thing. I'm not sure if i do or not, bu tI do realize that people need to live somewhere, but if you build a house where people ride, then you need to expect that people will be riding in that area & not bitch about it.

it's kinda like the people that buy a house next to the airport (for cheap) then start complaining about the noise. ng.gif

dust: yes, that's why elsinore won't allow quads on the track there any more, they kick up too much dust apparently...

Bluesky: few questions for you...if you are "saving" all this land, what are you saving it for? you cannot access it without a vehicle (other than accessing just the outlying few miles on foot) if you get your way, and let's just say the whole desert is closed, and the amount of it you can access is limited by how far you feel like hiking in, how will you, your children etc. ever get to see what mother nature has created for us to enjoy? Yes, us offroaders actually LOVE the outdoors. Do you? or would you rather sit in your office (built on top of nature, mind you) and create ways to stop the ones that are actually out there enjoying the outdoors? Also, what hurts the environment more, a paved highway that is permanent, or a dirt trail?
Bluesky
Sprawl is a problem. polluting factories are a problem. I live in the desert and the problems I have are with ORVers that continually ride off trail in LIMITED USE areas and past NO TRESPASSING signs on private property. Those are my issues.

I have appealed to CORVA and other off-road leaders for support in my attempts to get riders to obey the rules or to get officers to enforce the laws against trespassing or riding off trails in sensitive areas. These leaders laugh at me and tell me to get a life and try fighting city hall about real problems. They say I should move if I don't like dirt bikes on my property. They sound like many of YOU.

I know the posters to this board are not the problem. You folks just want to ride safely and sanely (well almost sanely) at the dunes. The problem children on ORVs ruin it for you and they ruin it for me. Yet ORV leaders fight against me and people like me because they think I'm part of their problem.

Hey did you see where Cathedral City passed a "no riding" law there because of the idiots that were writing their names on the big sand hill next to I-10?

Yet ORV leaders look at that ordinance like it was the result of a plot or conspiracy to take away their liberties.

I can't get any support from the ORV leadership so I fight against ORV abuse with my allies in the green groups. I started out as a local issue but because I found nothing but lies and ridicule from the ORV leadership, I now am a fighter for control of ORVs at the state level.

My big issue right now is to require ORVs to display visible license plates that can be used as ID if a rider breaks a law (green sticker is too small and hidden for this). ORV leadership successfully fought this one down at the Assembly level last year. Why would they do that? Who are they protecting?

I'm talking about Ed Waldheim, Roy Denner, and Pete Conaty.
Storman Norman
Boy I think if this blue guy had his way we would go back to horse and carrage, ban airplanes and all veh. that run on fuel. I wonder how invigorated he would feel walking to europe or only being able to see HIS presious land on foot. We would have to loose the computors because electricity would be bad so His word would be spread by word of mouth, because using paper is bad on HIS forests. Now He better start learning how to grow enough food on HIS small peice of land,"if thats ok" because He would starve without dust stiring farmers using HIS land to grow Americas food . I sure hope he knows that if he lives long enough to see his dream come true, he will regret everything he worked so hard for.
Storman Norman Says 25brdflick.gif 25brdflick.gif 25brdflick.gif
socalnaughtyboy
All the enviro weinnies should be executed!!!
We should beatup.gif
Permagrin
Hey did you see where Cathedral City passed a "no riding" law there because of the idiots that were writing their names on the big sand hill next to I-10



Yes and your are right in that aspect.
They did eff it up for everybody.
It was some Raider fans...
And I mean that because that and the raider idiots that double ride with no helmets and get hurt/ sue are effin the ones responsible.
Dumbasses were trenching their names 40 feet high across the hill so everybody on I-10 had to see it

I am a witness to this fact I'm sorry to say.
I live literally in view of Edom hill .
And I used to ride through the area to get to the good riding areas. And it was the dumbasses that trash and have no respect that got the place closed down.


People have to start policing their crowd or more places wil get closed because of indifferance.
Let people know whats acceptable and what is not!
I admit Im pissed I have been riding in this area since 1978 and to see the fact that I cant ride anywhere now pisses me off bigtime because of inconciderate dumbasses. 25brdflick.gif
shift_sand
I can understand being upset if someone is tearing up private property, just like when some ahole goes flying through my camp, roosting the wife and kids.But this is his home? no wonder he is pissed.
If any of us had a pad out in the desert and someone tresspassed and tore it up we would be upset. Notice all the fences going up west of the 78 in Ocotillo Wells?
Unfortunately the few will ruin it for the rest. That and paving the desert a little piece at a time to impede access.
I started going to Glamis over 20 years ago, and I wonder if it will be available to my kids. We need to be responsible and take care of it or it will be taken away I'm afraid.
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