Fee Collection stratigies:

User Groups, such as American Sand Association, American Sand Foundation and the DUNERS (to name but a few) should all be encouraged to sell the Use Permits directly to their respective constituencies.
Such a relationship:

encourages pre-trip purchases,

provides direct communication between the BLM and the constituent groups as orders are processed, encourages bulk purchases,

provides user groups an opportunity to offer an additional service to their members, specifically, a discounted Use Permit (i.e. instead of charging the full price to make money for the organization),

provides a focused opportunity for the groups to communicate with their members about the Use Fee and surrounding issues.

user Groups can say the same thing that BLM staff say, but the public will accept it with more credibility when coming from “one of their own.” By pointing out that doubling the compliance rate would generate the same revenue to the BLM as doubling the price,

The user groups should be able to improve overall compliance, especially on non-holiday weekdays and weekends when BLM Law with today's Enforcement is not out in force.

demonstrates, in a tangible way, the BLM's desire to strengthen and encourage these groups.[/b]

Better education may increase compliance, and in that case I think the user groups could help.

Vicki

User groups should be activly opposing any fee and certainly any INCREASE in the fee schedule.
By putting them on the payroll you are effectivly buying off any chance at orginized opposition.

'course, there IS no orginized opposition anyway so what the hell!

Vor

BUT, education is ONE of the "Services" we are paying for?
Manned booths, check points, CUSTOMER INTERACITIONS with LEOS and park rangers are supposed to be part of Education.

Use Groups educate ALL the time. They are not an "enforcement" of compliance. The burdon of responsibility will be passed and that cannot be good if you ask me.
The thought alone of a use group making money on the sales of passes should raise more red flags then there are stakes out there surrounding the CLOSURES.

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'course, there IS no orginized opposition anyway so what the hell!

That's me resigned to the inevitability. I cannot fight the machine. Glamis is all but dead to me.
Glamis will become another "I can't afford this so I will dream". Things that I accepted would be out of my reach because I choose to live a frugal life.
Priced out of my lifestyle... God, isn't America great?

Vor

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The thought alone of a use group making money on the sales of passes should raise more red flags then there are stakes out there surrounding the CLOSURES.

While reading the business plan for the first time Monday afternoon at first I had the same thought many have had, which is "say, that would be a good way to bring the cost down." It never occurred to me that it would increase compliance because I figured the people that are refusing to pay will refuse to pay any agency or organization.

I vaguely remember something about this being brought up but as I recall the discussion involved passes being made available through various venues, including local retail stores and user groups. Following that thought I can see where a local retail store would require some kind of discount to at least cover their admin fees for offering the pass. It appears someone thought the same thing should be said for user groups offering the passes.

I surely hope the thought behind offering this particular option had more to do with having a variety of purchase options available and less as a way to get the user groups behind the whole fee process.

Vicki

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myself wrote:   'course, there IS no orginized opposition anyway so what the hell!   That's me resigned to the inevitability. I cannot fight the machine. Glamis is all but dead to me.   Glamis will become another \"I can't afford this so I will dream\". Things that I accepted would be out of my reach because I choose to live a frugal life.   Priced out of my lifestyle... God, isn't America great?

was a college education also priced out of your reach? How about a house at the beach?

Capitalism is a dog-eat-dog system that allows those with capital to use the vast numbers of those living a frugal life as their pawns. They influence prices of necessities like food, shelter, clothing and fuel--We constantly re-budget our resources to pay for these things.


Vor--as a long time Glamis recreationist, you KNEW that something was going to happen to close this area as more and more people came and acted out of control!

When acting out of control becomes a lifestyle and people die, it's all over.

If you just want to ride in the dunes, you'll find some dunes. There are dunes in Oregon, Idaho, Minnesota, etc. They don't have the problems that the ISDRA does because they're not near millions of crazies.

If you want to participate in an outrageous society, go to a rock concert or the Burning man party.

Hey Bluecrap,
I ain't in the friggen mood right now...
So, shove it up your ass!

Vor

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User Groups, such as American Sand Association, American Sand Foundation and the DUNERS (to name but a few) should all be encouraged to sell the Use Permits directly to their respective constituencies.

This whole idea offends me.

The user groups should be fighting these fees not backing them.

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This whole idea offends me. The user groups should be fighting these fees not backing them.

I haven't heard of one user group actually "backing" these fees.

No group has at any time said they're a dandy idea.

But the anti-access groups have spoken out against them.

Vicki

QUOTE

QUOTE User Groups, such as American Sand Association, American Sand Foundation and the DUNERS (to name but a few) should all be encouraged to sell the Use Permits directly to their respective constituencies.   This whole idea offends me. The user groups should be fighting these fees not backing them.

I agree!!!!! Just because "it is coming" doesn't mean that we have to stop fighting it and enbrace it. ALL of these groups should be fighting these fees let alone the increase of these fees. We already pay taxes the "use permit" is just a Double taxation.

If DUNERS or the ASA was sitting by the pay station kindly reminding people to pay there small fee Handing out some flyers on the rules and stuff ,there would be no problem in my book and the compliance rate would go way up . But them sitting there asking for $60-$200 the death rate would go up .

Just because the BLM or however has suggested that the user groups sell the permits doesn’t mean the groups will. I hope that we at DUNERs consider this action as well as consider what the membership of DUNERS wants. There are certainly issues as to weather or not groups such as DUNERs or the ASA should. If we are in such opposition of the prices, should we force the burden of sales onto those who are setting the price? It may be all too easy for the BLM to force-feed our medicine, if they have someone else doing the feeding. The problem there is if DUNERs decides NOT to sell permits; other groups need to also agree not to sell them. Some groups may be only looking at the dollars they stand to make form the sale of these permits and not the messages sent by refusal. This is a perfect example of times when ALL the groups need to work together and form an alliance to solve a problem. I don’t know which way DUNERs will go, but I have seen threads from another group already talking about the money that stands to be made from the sale of the permits, however, I have not seen that from a board member so I wont assume it’s their position yet.

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Hey Bluecrap, I ain't in the friggen mood right now... So, shove it up your ass! Vor

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Selling passes at no profit might be a worthwhile function of an organization. It provides a service and saves users money. It would be okay to ask for donations, but not to make a profit on the pass itself (IMHO).