Jump to content

Car In the Shop 2, no, 3 Weeks, no 4 weeks, no 7 weeks For Warranty Repair - GOT HER BACK, Ford Customer Service is useless


Recommended Posts

On 8/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, Rockwood said:

Noisy boys? Lol. Those are mufflers

I think he meant to say spoolie bois, or Nagasaki noise-makers... 

 

-TJ

  • Dislike 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

So, I'm still dealing with the aftermath of this.  

To date: Ford engineers were VERY invasive in trying to find this problem.  First, the problem itself: since getting it back, I have not heard a single clunk from the rear suspension.  My assumption is Penske Ford was putting the car in a situation that would make the noise no matter what was on the car since it was likely smashing the bumpstops.  When I brought the car in, I would get constant clunks just driving through a parking lot.  Now, nothing.  Hell, yesterday I had 800lbs of myself and coworkers in the vehicle along with a hundred pounds in the trunk driving around Rosecrans area, nothing at all.  So likely 6 weeks of investigation was spent chasing a ghost.

On to the investigation.  During this time, Ford removed seam sealer on spot welds, crimped interior sheetmetal without re-painting, dented the sheetmetal in the door jamb, and a number of other things. 

Penske Ford has been very communicative during this, I honestly have no ill will towards them.

Ford corporate, on the other hand.  Ugh.  I've requested repairs for these items at a bodyshop I trust.  To date, Ford is offering me 2 months of payments for the 7 weeks it was in the shop (refuses to pay insurance or registration), and HALF  of the repair costs.  Yes.  Half.  Odd that I need to pay half of these damages, since I don't remember doing any of this.

So, I'm assuming that since I haven't received a call from Ford for 2 weeks, they're unwilling to resolve this.  Anyone know any other course of action?  Hire a good Lemon attorney?  Only bummer is if I request a replacement, it'll be a 2021 chip shortage model that's been sitting in the parking lot for 6 months, then finished with rusty workers.  Requesting my money back means I have to pay Covid tax on an alternative.  This sucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Rockwood changed the title to Car In the Shop 2, no, 3 Weeks, no 4 weeks, no 7 weeks For Warranty Repair - GOT HER BACK, Ford Customer Service is useless
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

So, I'm still dealing with the aftermath of this.  

To date: Ford engineers were VERY invasive in trying to find this problem.  First, the problem itself: since getting it back, I have not heard a single clunk from the rear suspension.  My assumption is Penske Ford was putting the car in a situation that would make the noise no matter what was on the car since it was likely smashing the bumpstops.  When I brought the car in, I would get constant clunks just driving through a parking lot.  Now, nothing.  Hell, yesterday I had 800lbs of myself and coworkers in the vehicle along with a hundred pounds in the trunk driving around Rosecrans area, nothing at all.  So likely 6 weeks of investigation was spent chasing a ghost.

On to the investigation.  During this time, Ford removed seam sealer on spot welds, crimped interior sheetmetal without re-painting, dented the sheetmetal in the door jamb, and a number of other things. 

Penske Ford has been very communicative during this, I honestly have no ill will towards them.

Ford corporate, on the other hand.  Ugh.  I've requested repairs for these items at a bodyshop I trust.  To date, Ford is offering me 2 months of payments for the 7 weeks it was in the shop (refuses to pay insurance or registration), and HALF  of the repair costs.  Yes.  Half.  Odd that I need to pay half of these damages, since I don't remember doing any of this.

So, I'm assuming that since I haven't received a call from Ford for 2 weeks, they're unwilling to resolve this.  Anyone know any other course of action?  Hire a good Lemon attorney?  Only bummer is if I request a replacement, it'll be a 2021 chip shortage model that's been sitting in the parking lot for 6 months, then finished with rusty workers.  Requesting my money back means I have to pay Covid tax on an alternative.  This sucks.

Unfortunately, I don't know if Lemon is an option here.  By your own admission, the problem is fixed.  I also don't think it met the threshold for days in the shop, but it's been over a decade since I Lemon'ed my IS250.  I don't even recall the lawyer I used, but it was just one of the big name firms a Google search will turn up.  A buddy had used them for his '05 GTO.  You want to go with one of these firms, because they know all the magic words, plus the manufacturers know them and generally know it's easier to just settle. 

 

That said, use COVID-pricing to your advantage: sell the thing for more than you bought it for.  You have other vehicles, and can 'afford' to wait to replace it 'til pricing comes back to reality and the cars available aren't the chip-shortage builds like you mentioned.  I think a Cayman 4.0 GTS would do nicely...

 

-TJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tjZ06 said:

Unfortunately, I don't know if Lemon is an option here.  By your own admission, the problem is fixed.  I also don't think it met the threshold for days in the shop, but it's been over a decade since I Lemon'ed my IS250.  I don't even recall the lawyer I used, but it was just one of the big name firms a Google search will turn up.  A buddy had used them for his '05 GTO.  You want to go with one of these firms, because they know all the magic words, plus the manufacturers know them and generally know it's easier to just settle. 

 

That said, use COVID-pricing to your advantage: sell the thing for more than you bought it for.  You have other vehicles, and can 'afford' to wait to replace it 'til pricing comes back to reality and the cars available aren't the chip-shortage builds like you mentioned.  I think a Cayman 4.0 GTS would do nicely...

 

-TJ

Threshold is 30 days in first year of ownership.  This definitely exceeded that.

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

WHAT IS A “REASONABLE” NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS? A: There is no set number. However, California’s Lemon Law Presumption contains these guidelines for determining when a “reasonable” number of repair attempts have been made:

• The manufacturer or dealer hasn’t fixed the same problem after four or more attempts.

• Your vehicle’s problems could cause death or serious bodily injury if it is driven, and the manufacturer or dealer has made at least two unsuccessful repair attempts.

• The vehicle has been in the shop for more than 30 days (not necessarily in a row) for repair of any problems covered by its warranty. This is called the Lemon Law Presumption.

And must have back seats.  911? :biggrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Threshold is 30 days in first year of ownership.  This definitely exceeded that.

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

WHAT IS A “REASONABLE” NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS? A: There is no set number. However, California’s Lemon Law Presumption contains these guidelines for determining when a “reasonable” number of repair attempts have been made:

• The manufacturer or dealer hasn’t fixed the same problem after four or more attempts.

• Your vehicle’s problems could cause death or serious bodily injury if it is driven, and the manufacturer or dealer has made at least two unsuccessful repair attempts.

• The vehicle has been in the shop for more than 30 days (not necessarily in a row) for repair of any problems covered by its warranty. This is called the Lemon Law Presumption.

And must have back seats.  911? :biggrin:

I'd at least consult one of the big firms, in that case.  Almost all of them do zero up-front fees, and you only pay out of what they collect if they win.  So besides a little time gathering documentation for them, no cost to you if it fails.  IIRC with my IS250 it was easier, because the issue fell into that "could cause death or serious bodily injury..." thing.  It was BS, but the issue was the now super-common, well-known issue of carbon build-up on the intake valves ('06 IS250, first of Toyota's DI engines).  It would cause rough idle and stumbling, which could be followed by a surge as the IAC opens quickly trying to keep it from stalling.  Lawyers spun that as surging could cause it to "leap into traffic" or some BS.  Whatever, worked for me. 

 

-TJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, tjZ06 said:

I'd at least consult one of the big firms, in that case.  Almost all of them do zero up-front fees, and you only pay out of what they collect if they win.  So besides a little time gathering documentation for them, no cost to you if it fails.  IIRC with my IS250 it was easier, because the issue fell into that "could cause death or serious bodily injury..." thing.  It was BS, but the issue was the now super-common, well-known issue of carbon build-up on the intake valves ('06 IS250, first of Toyota's DI engines).  It would cause rough idle and stumbling, which could be followed by a surge as the IAC opens quickly trying to keep it from stalling.  Lawyers spun that as surging could cause it to "leap into traffic" or some BS.  Whatever, worked for me. 

 

-TJ

Word. 

That being said, Ford has stated it still makes noise, and rattling rear suspension would definitely fall under the "could cause death" as well :biggrin:

Either way, patience grows thin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Wow! They were actually a lot more generous than Ford or GM have ever been to me! I hope they will see the light and do the right thing for you.

I've been as patient and understanding as can be.  I've gotten good at not raising my voice, yet continually prodding people into action, LOL. :biggrin:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, Ford "upper management" decided to pull the credit for repairs after their engineer did a ringer on my car.  No way I could sell this without anyone worth their salt noticing it, and trying to explain that it wasn't in an accident but this was Ford's "repair" would go over like a lead balloon.  

So, arbitration I go.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I haven't read the entire post but did read all your updates. Hire a lemon lawyer and let them work on it. I had to do this twice with ford. The first was on a focus we bought as an estimators car. Had trans overheating issues and clutch issues (dual clutch automatic). They ended up giving me $11K, a new transmission and extending the warranty on the transmission for 5yr/60K miles. The second was my 2020 Raptor, had both turbos swapped out and the navigation changed twice. On the Raptor they bought it back for what I paid. I got to drive it for a year and put over 40K miles on it. Without a good attorney you aren't going to get chit from them. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Pennywise said:

So I haven't read the entire post but did read all your updates. Hire a lemon lawyer and let them work on it. I had to do this twice with ford. The first was on a focus we bought as an estimators car. Had trans overheating issues and clutch issues (dual clutch automatic). They ended up giving me $11K, a new transmission and extending the warranty on the transmission for 5yr/60K miles. The second was my 2020 Raptor, had both turbos swapped out and the navigation changed twice. On the Raptor they bought it back for what I paid. I got to drive it for a year and put over 40K miles on it. Without a good attorney you aren't going to get chit from them. 

Yep.  What I found as well.  

Have a referral? :biggrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would tell Penske and Ford you want to initiate a buy back and let them know you will be obtaining an attorney.   See how far you can push it without the intervention of an attorney. If they continue to push back then seek out a lemon law attorney.

My wife has gotten Ford to buy back 2 vehicles over the years.  We have a good relationship with the service manager at our dealer and he helped with the process.  When she had an Edge the mysnyc system never worked properly.  She got them to pay 9 months on the lease. 

There is a really good lemon law attorney in Glendale.  I believe his name is Norman Taylor.        

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

I would tell Penske and Ford you want to initiate a buy back and let them know you will be obtaining an attorney.   See how far you can push it without the intervention of an attorney. If they continue to push back then seek out a lemon law attorney.

My wife has gotten Ford to buy back 2 vehicles over the years.  We have a good relationship with the service manager at our dealer and he helped with the process.  When she had an Edge the mysnyc system never worked properly.  She got them to pay 9 months on the lease. 

There is a really good lemon law attorney in Glendale.  I believe his name is Norman Taylor.        

I've gotten to that point now, and told the customer service rep that I would be obtaining an attorney.  They were apologetic, but there's nothing they can do.

Penske offered to help, but said they wouldn't be able to get more than a 1 month payment credit based on prior results.  They also said they would repair the damage, but based on the work their body shop has done so far, I am certain I won't be happy with the repair.  They understood and really the only way to get compensation for the permanent damage done during this process is through Ford.  Penske can only attempt to fix, but we're talking tearing the entire corner of the car apart to accomplish.  NFW I'm letting them do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I've gotten to that point now, and told the customer service rep that I would be obtaining an attorney.  They were apologetic, but there's nothing they can do.

Penske offered to help, but said they wouldn't be able to get more than a 1 month payment credit based on prior results.  They also said they would repair the damage, but based on the work their body shop has done so far, I am certain I won't be happy with the repair.  They understood and really the only way to get compensation for the permanent damage done during this process is through Ford.  Penske can only attempt to fix, but we're talking tearing the entire corner of the car apart to accomplish.  NFW I'm letting them do that.

I would call the attorney and see what they say.  Consultations on lemon law stuff is free. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

I would call the attorney and see what they say.  Consultations on lemon law stuff is free. 

Yep, called a couple.  Got a couple of surprised "WTF" type responses from people who see this chit all day every day. 

Which is why I'm surprised that Ford is digging in: it's obvious there's no way out of this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Yep, called a couple.  Got a couple of surprised "WTF" type responses from people who see this chit all day every day. 

Which is why I'm surprised that Ford is digging in: it's obvious there's no way out of this one.

Natural response from big auto is to say no.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

Natural response from big auto is to say no.  

Arsewads. :biggrin:

Only people that will be happy coming out of this will be the attorneys...

Edited by Rockwood
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look for anything on their paperwork that admits fault. If they actually put that it still makes noise, you have a slam dunk.

I dealt with a lemon Silverado and had to take it back 5 times (after retaining an atty) before there was some verbiage the atty could sink his teeth on. My truck had piston slap and caused the motor to misfire. You could open the doors and the truck looked like it was flapping wings like a bird. (Shaking side to side) . Another guy tried to use a piece of paper on the tailpipe to prove it wasn't a misfire. He was proved wrong. He said the paper would "pop" if it was misfiring. It did.. lol. One time I picked the truck up and drove it right back into the service dept . I was banned from that dealer. Hahaha 

All those times the paperwork always said " could not duplicate problem" (didn't always do it) or "working per design".  It was the last time they put "could not find source of shaking" that sealed the deal. 

 

I think most people don't have the patience to go through the whole process so dealers take their chances you'll give up. Bean counters ruined the world!😁

Edited by LegitDuner
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, LegitDuner said:

Look for anything on their paperwork that admits fault. If they actually put that it still makes noise, you have a slam dunk.

I dealt with a lemon Silverado and had to take it back 5 times (after retaining an atty) before there was some verbiage the atty could sink his teeth on. My truck had piston slap and caused the motor to misfire. You could open the doors and the truck looked like it was flapping wings like a bird. (Shaking side to side) . Another guy tried to use a piece of paper on the tailpipe to prove it wasn't a misfire. He was proved wrong. He said the paper would "pop" if it was misfiring. It did.. lol. One time I picked the truck up and drove it right back into the service dept . I was banned from that dealer. Hahaha 

All those times the paperwork always said " could not duplicate problem" (didn't always do it) or "working per design".  It was the last time they put "could not find source of shaking" that sealed the deal. 

 

I think most people don't have the patience to go through the whole process so dealers take their chances you'll give up. Bean counters ruined the world!😁

Last line of the repair bill says "noise diminished". :biggrin:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Shout Box

Shout Box

You don't have permission to chat.
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...

    Important Information

    Terms of Use Privacy Policy