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S4 Rant

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:bs::wh:

There is a big difference between finished goods and software.

A business philosophy that Steve is mentioning is very short thinking; it might be a business model but not a long term mentality.

No, I think they have some very valid similarities.

If you buy an OS (or tranny) and it works forever, you'll never buy another one.

If your OS (tranny) doesn't work, you can't use your computer (sandrail) without it.

In the beginning there was windows 3.1 (Bus tranny) which was replaced by windows for workgroups (MD4 tranny), which was replaced by Win 95 (MD4E tranny), then Win 98 (MD4-2D tranny), then Win 98SE (bearing upgrades for the 2D tranny) then win 2000 (S4S tranny), then Win XP (S4D tranny), and now Vista (HD tranny.)

When your computer crashes (your tranny blows up) you're at the mercy of the computer network guy (tranny builder) while the guys with LINUX boxes (Fortin trannies) are still up and running.

Until now, I had no idea how perfect the analogy really was.

:lol:

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Sand Tramp.. I switched to a Fortin also. I had a 2D in last season and feel MUCH more comfortable with a Fortin. I keep hearing they are almost bullet proof.

Good luck with your new car.

Rick

A 4E or 091 would be just fine for the way you baby that thing :laugh:

Heres to looking at my taillights in a couple of months

-Clif

Edited by clifW

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If a company wants to survive in this era they must "brand" themselves. Branding is a direct correlation of the product to the company selling or manufacturing.

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I changed to the Fortin Wide Gear 4 Speed also. Cost me $3k more but I would rather spend that money now then spend $18K later on after already having spent $12K. I call it preventive spending :3rdg:

$3k? What about cooler/filter?

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I changed to the Fortin Wide Gear 4 Speed also. Cost me $3k more but I would rather spend that money now then spend $18K later on after already having spent $12K. I call it preventive spending :3rdg:

$3k? What about cooler/filter?

Its not mandatory to run them.

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How hard is it to change from a S4 with paddle shifters over fortin?

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How hard is it to change from a S4 with paddle shifters over fortin?

Shouldn't be hard at all.

If you have room for a S4, you have room for a Fortin.

New motor mounts in the rear will be needed, the fronts will stay the same.

The paddle shifters should work also, just make sure you get the right Fortin setup for paddle shifters.

Go with the 4 speed wide gear. The gears are wider than the 5 speed(hence the name).

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I changed to the Fortin Wide Gear 4 Speed also. Cost me $3k more but I would rather spend that money now then spend $18K later on after already having spent $12K. I call it preventive spending :3rdg:

$3k? What about cooler/filter?

Its not mandatory to run them.

You dont have to brush your teeth either! Fortin recommends it though. I think they call it preventative maintenance!

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Now THAT is customer service. Fortin even cares about my teeth… :sha:

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I will be adding a cooler/filter in the near future, after I take delivery and pay Justin what I owe him and assess the damage to the checkbook. It will be first priority with an engine oil cooler also.

Edited by Sand Tramp

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There is a big difference between finished goods and software.

A business philosophy that Steve is mentioning is very short thinking; it might be a business model but not a long term mentality.

No, I think blah blah blah

:lol:

How long did it take you to come up with that one? :)

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as for the S4 DONT put anything in it except WEDDLE and ARP ring gear bolts and you will give that tranny the best shot at living... the dog rings break from shifting incorrectly and if you are using a paddle shifter you might as well stock up on dog rings!!! Your gonna need em. Paddle shifters are breaking more S4s then anything else right now... none of the paddle shifters i know of are safe on the tranny's even with the .5 second rev limiter... ok im done now... lol :Beer: :beer:

^ That is what I just learned except that it may not have been the paddle shifters that were breaking the dogs on the S4s, it was a design issue that has now (as in the last month or so) been resolved.

I will be buying an S4 for my new car, but it will have the new dog ring setup, the weddle gears, and the ARP ring bolts.

I get my trannys re-built each season, and the re-building cost was a factor in making my decission.

Heck, what could go wrong? :rotf:

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Sand Tramp.. I switched to a Fortin also. I had a 2D in last season and feel MUCH more comfortable with a Fortin. I keep hearing they are almost bullet proof.

Good luck with your new car.

Rick

A 4E or 091 would be just fine for the way you baby that thing.........LOL Just kidding. Heres to looking at my taillights in a couple of months

-Clif

So True.....To watch rick drive is like watchin paint dry! :funny:

Edited by Charlie Brown

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Do we feel the same as 10 years ago about S4 or did the bugs get worked out

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I was verbally quoted a price of less than $12k for a brand new S4s from Folts.  They said with all of the recent upgrades to the S4s, it makes zero, absolutely ZERO sense to buy a used one.  I did not get into details on the upgrades but apparently since Weddle took over, they have made some positive changes to the internals.  I read elsewhere on this site that it would cost $~5k to upgrade an older S4s with the new internals.  Again, don't know the details of what that would consist of.  Ring and pinion for an S4s is about half the cost of the S4D.  Seems to be A LOT of stroked and blown cars for sale running the S4s.  Likely be fine if you don't hammer through the whoops or do a bunch of clutch drops driving like the guys in dubai.  

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2007 at 9:30 PM, kgcabs said:

Bought my S4 November 05 for my LS2. Built by a reputable dealer.

End of the first season: The 3rd and 4th dog rings and main shaft bearing went, supposedly the shifter was improperly adjusted (or maybe I can't shift right): $2300

End of season two: Had a reputable dealer take it apart this summer, non-weddle ring and pinion and the nicely stretched bolts had to be replaced, intermediate housing cracked by the main shaft bearing, blah, blah, blah (maybe I still can't shift it correctly): $3700 more

Lets see, $12,000 new, $18,000 after repairs. I figure if I amortize it over the number of trips I've taken in two seasons, about 40, it costs me about $450 per trip. Hopefully I can do 40 more before I have to spend any more and that would cut costs in half to only $225.00 less any residual value if it still works at that time.

Mendeola...never again!

Thanks I needed that.

join the club

had a S$D and worked perfect for 3 trips, pinon bearing came apart, and went into it 3 times and it will not shift out of 2nd gear when it gets hot,

I mean sometimes we have to jack up the car and back and forth with the tires to get it out of second, have replaced the shifter-shift forks-and the complete S4D shifting housing,

now I am told the only way it is going to shift is with a full update, this is going to run about $2500 in parts,

 

looking back _yes should have just got a Albins,  into my S4D now about $20,000 

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4 hours ago, evantwheeler said:

I was verbally quoted a price of less than $12k for a brand new S4s from Folts.  They said with all of the recent upgrades to the S4s, it makes zero, absolutely ZERO sense to buy a used one.  I did not get into details on the upgrades but apparently since Weddle took over, they have made some positive changes to the internals.  I read elsewhere on this site that it would cost $~5k to upgrade an older S4s with the new internals.  Again, don't know the details of what that would consist of.  Ring and pinion for an S4s is about half the cost of the S4D.  Seems to be A LOT of stroked and blown cars for sale running the S4s.  Likely be fine if you don't hammer through the whoops or do a bunch of clutch drops driving like the guys in dubai.  

 

 

What really really suck about all this is everyone with the US gear ring and pinions and S4 build around 2005 have no issue, seen 3 that have not even rebuilt them, and they are running 402's and 427's my 402 with my s4d lasted half as long as my 2D with the same motor,

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So it looks like my post 11 years ago about constantly selling upgrades was right on the money.

Bill Gates and Paul Allen didn't become billionaires by selling a good product, they sold defective products year after year after year. Many other businesses try to follow that same business model.

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How many years have we heard to buy the Albins the first time and be done with it?

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Have and S4S, after my first season with car had rebuilt, $3K, since then (4 seasons, average 25 days in the dunes per season) nothing in repair except change oil every year.

 

Car weighs in at 3500LBS , LS 383, 934's.

Buddy had a REBUILT, JUST OUT OF SHOP,  FORTIN go bad in 2 trips, NO warranty 10K, would have been $3K if it was a S4. 

BTW a ALbins is 30K Plus so sure add 1, I can break my S4 5 times

 

It is all in how you drive, how you treat it, I dont drag race, I dune hard, but set up car to be in 3rd most of the time

The sport is not cheap, which is why I can never retire we can make this post 30 pages and never get a final answer, treat your car well, it should treat you well. 

 

 

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The bummer about this entire thread is that this is exactly the battle that we are trying to win against the campfire mechanics and word of mouth type of marketing that prevails in this industry/hobby/sport.

We knew that taking on this entire program was going to be a lot of work, and we knew that we were going to have to invest a lot of money into it to fix all of the inherent issues that caused so many people to have problems with these units that left a forever bad taste in their mouth. I think we are finally starting to make some headway into changing people's minds about these things. We have gotten a lot of really good, positive feedback from customers about the changes that we have made. Many of those changes you will never notice, but are simply there to prevent a failure, and that to us is the key selling point to the work we put into them.

Unfortunately, there were so many inherent design flaws with these sequential transaxles through each generation of changes that in many cases, it does cost what some might consider to be an arm and leg to upgrade these things with our new parts and make them right. I have seen customers try to nickel and dime their way with these upgraded parts, trying to make old and new parts work together, and that typically never tends to work out. We have literally made changes to every single part drawing to fix each flaw that has been an issue through the years. 

These sequential transaxles are certainly not a "perfect" unit, which is why we still push the Albins for those who want or need the best transaxle. We refrained from changing the name from Mendeola to Weddle for the past years because we were still uncertain on whether the changes we made to these were going to make the grade in the court of public opinion. We have now made the decision to start rebranding these units to use the Weddle name as new parts get made, next Sand Show (2019) you will probably see the Weddle name in the castings and in our marketing materials.

In closing, the biggest variable that determines how any of these transaxles hold up is who's foot is on the gas pedal. Anything can break, these vehicles are toys and they are driven as such. They are not driven with the mindset that this thing has to be able to get the kids to school or make it to work the next day. If you drove your daily they way you drive these toys on a daily basis, I guarantee you that vehicle will be at the dealership/shop on a very regular basis. Horsepower costs money. It costs more money to get that power to the ground reliably. There is a reason why race cars cost more money to run than they make. If you want to drive it like a race car, then you have to expect a race car level of prep cost.

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