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35 minutes ago, Fullthrottleguy said:

Just Curious - people that are on the wait list for the Speed and are doing financing are they locked in?  It looks like rates are gonna double over the next 6 months  as the Fed will have to get mortgage rates in the "teens" if they want to curb inflation and keep us out of recession... Those rates might shake out a number of buyers (also true for Canned hams and Pole-larry's)

You think loan rates will get that high in the next 6 months?

I left my crystal ball at the cleaners, but that seems overly aggressive to me. Who knows, the gov't does stupid sh1t all the time.

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10 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

You think loan rates will get that high in the next 6 months?

I left my crystal ball at the cleaners, but that seems overly aggressive to me. Who knows, the gov't does stupid sh1t all the time.

60 month car loans are up about 1.5% from Jan to April. So yes,they are forecasted to continue climbing.

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On 5/5/2022 at 10:32 AM, michael.gonzalez said:

Yeah in the dunes is another story!

 

The Pro R has 75 LESS HP and around 200 MORE POUNDS compared to a Speed-Keyed Speed UTV.

With about 5 psi of boost the Pro R will be over 300hp. The Speed UTV is probably pushing over 20 psi to get to the same place. 
There’s no replacement for displacement!

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1 hour ago, Fullthrottleguy said:

Just Curious - people that are on the wait list for the Speed and are doing financing are they locked in?  It looks like rates are gonna double over the next 6 months  as the Fed will have to get mortgage rates in the "teens" if they want to curb inflation and keep us out of recession... Those rates might shake out a number of buyers (also true for Canned hams and Pole-larry's)

The sales price is locked but no one’s interest rates will be locked until you get your loan. Yes rates are rising, and will rise more before the end of the year. But I don’t suspect another 1.5 or 2 % is going to cause but maybe a few to back out. If you’ve been waiting this long I’d be shocked that someone sells their spot because of a interest percent or two. Plus if a few interest points prices you out of owning a Toy, then you probably had no business buying one in the first place. 
 

And it’s not like the rates for a Polaris, Can Am, or any brand of recreational vehicle are going to be different. Guys are not going to bail on Speed because of interest rates and go buy a Honda. If you want a toy your going to pay the going rates. 
 

If anyone who has been waiting had half a brain they would have been putting a few hundred away each month, so when their Speed comes in you have a greater down and have to finance less. 

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1 hour ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

You think loan rates will get that high in the next 6 months?

I left my crystal ball at the cleaners, but that seems overly aggressive to me. Who knows, the gov't does stupid sh1t all the time.

Fed is making baby steps now to keep us at of recession, but its not gonna fix the inflation, so  either way we are screwed  ... a little shake out is now always bad and might let SPEED catch up whenever they start shipping. Given the supply issues and crazy cost increases its gonna be interesting to see  ...

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32 minutes ago, NIKAL said:

The sales price is locked but no one’s interest rates will be locked until you get your loan. Yes rates are rising, and will rise more before the end of the year. But I don’t suspect another 1.5 or 2 % is going to cause but maybe a few to back out. If you’ve been waiting this long I’d be shocked that someone sells their spot because of a interest percent or two. Plus if a few interest points prices you out of owning a Toy, then you probably had no business buying one in the first place. 
 

And it’s not like the rates for a Polaris, Can Am, or any brand of recreational vehicle are going to be different. Guys are not going to bail on Speed because of interest rates and go buy a Honda. If you want a toy your going to pay the going rates. 
 

If anyone who has been waiting had half a brain they would have been putting a few hundred away each month, so when their Speed comes in you have a greater down and have to finance less. 

True. But I think you’re giving people to much credit. Not everyone is that smart and if the economy tanks, I can see many of them who are affected just walk away. And Speed being a small fish could possibly suffer more so than the other big brands. They’ve already survived other recessions. That’s my only concern. 
 

Also, I really think Speed should have just built those first 250 cars the way he was supposed to back at the 2019 show. Start off small and then evolve the car to what we are seeing today. I think there would have been more interest and trust in him and the company and not as much hate and disappointment  from early buyers and people in general.  Or reached out to those early buyers and tell them that things have changed and if they still would like the car shown at the show or wait it out for the cars we are seeing today. Just my thoughts. 

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1 hour ago, FOG said:

With about 5 psi of boost the Pro R will be over 300hp. The Speed UTV is probably pushing over 20 psi to get to the same place. 
There’s no replacement for displacement!

Yeah, but how much more for a turbo will that cost you?? $$$$$$

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If RG doubled this engine to 4 cyl 2L at this same level of parts and boost, it would be making somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 hp.

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As to powersports finance rates, companies like Sheffield and Freedom Road don't have very competitive standard rates. The low rate financing deals happen when the manufacturer buys the rate down. The big boys have the resources to deploy promotional rates when necessary, does Speed?  

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7 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

The part John didn't emphasize is his chassis and suspension is all chromo. Since it's stronger than whatever Polaris uses, in order for Polaris to beef up their chassis and suspension and lack of proper triangulation, they used thicker fence posts, added more non structural tubing, and added all kinds of weight, like the solid steel bars on the rear arms just to band aid a horrible suspension design with too much toe change. If they did a better job at engineering it, they wouldn't have had to add more weight to the unsprung portion of their suspension, which according to physics, automatically results in a worse ride from the rear suspension. This in turn leads to another band aid - electronic shocks. More weight. Eventually all of the bad choices and band aids add a huge amount of weight.

I would have mentioned the pool noodles attached with zipties, but those don't weigh much, they just make me laugh harder.

:lol:

Frickin killing me!

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4 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

If RG doubled this engine to 4 cyl 2L at this same level of parts and boost, it would be making somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 hp.

You must be lonely...But it is good entertainment. Carry on.

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13 minutes ago, BUFF said:

You must be lonely...But it is good entertainment. Carry on.

Is the math too difficult for you? You don't have to use multiplication, you could just use addition.

300 + 300 = 600.

See how easy that was?

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On 5/6/2022 at 10:08 AM, Cookie said:

2600lb before passengers, for the most part loaded you are nearing 4200lb with passengers and all the Accessories and stereo people add to their golf carts...........that is heavy

 

FIFY

8 hours ago, NIKAL said:

If anyone who has been waiting had half a brain they would have been putting a few hundred away each month, so when their Speed comes in you have a greater down and have to finance less. 

Lol. Yeah, you have more faith in the public than me. Guaranteed most are gonna 100% finance it, less whatever minimum down is required by the bank. 

1 hour ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Is the math too difficult for you? You don't have to use multiplication, you could just use addition.

300 + 300 = 600.

See how easy that was?

Yes. Displacement increases always result in linear power gains. 

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18 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

If RG doubled this engine to 4 cyl 2L at this same level of parts and boost, it would be making somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 hp.

This will be you waiting for your Speed car

Old man with violin editorial photo. Image of bangkok - 162350921

 

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13 hours ago, Rockwood said:

 

Lol. Yeah, you have more faith in the public than me. Guaranteed most are gonna 100% finance it, less whatever minimum down is required by the bank. 

 

Very true. I was always amazed how many people with very high paying jobs were turned down due to debt to income ratio. Sometimes more down money could get them over the hump, but usually not. A very large percentage of the population lives well beyond their means. That's why some mega dealers have in-house finance divisions where they do "get-me-done loans" with terms that would bring tears to your eyes. We had a young man wanting to trade a DRZ on a SxS. The bike retailed for @$7k new. He had made payments for over a year, and when I called infamous dealer for a payoff it was @$10K!

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23 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

You think loan rates will get that high in the next 6 months?

I left my crystal ball at the cleaners, but that seems overly aggressive to me. Who knows, the gov't does stupid sh1t all the time.

The Feds plan on raising the rates several more times this year.  Expect home mortgage rates to be in the 7% - 7.5% range.   Powersports loans were in the 6.99% range depending on credit score before all this inflation.  I would expect the loans to jump up to 10%.  Manufactures might offer lower interest rates for a 2 or 3 year loan.  Money is going to get expense.   

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6 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

The Feds plan on raising the rates several more times this year.  Expect home mortgage rates to be in the 7% - 7.5% range.   Powersports loans were in the 6.99% range depending on credit score before all this inflation.  I would expect the loans to jump up to 10%.  Manufactures might offer lower interest rates for a 2 or 3 year loan.  Money is going to get expense.   

Where are you seeing any experts predicting these kinds of numbers for mortgage rates? Of course right now at over 5% we have exceeded what many experts said we would climb to this year.

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On 5/6/2022 at 3:32 PM, John@Outfront said:

Well lets see, i have a full aluminum body, the roof is .125" thick., my floor is steel expanded metal, my tranny has to weigh more than a 300hp mini tranny and a front diff (and my trannys can support 6-800 hp.) rear trailing arms with 12" brakes, 4 934 cvs and my axles weigh more than any mini driveshafts.  I might be missing two rear seats but my car is still a four seater. the rear doors are not there but i have steel tubing there in its place. in the place (of the back two seats) i have a radiator full of water that is 31" wide by 19" tall and (hardly the size of the sxs radiator).  with all that water weight and two large 16 paddle blades, my intercooler is twice the size and weight with two large 12" paddle blades. lastly my 6 cylinder engine clearly is easily twice the weight of a two cylinder engine.  Its still baffling the weight but i get it....................

The Pro R is a 4 cylinder motor.  Not sure how much it weighs.  The cars will shed a little weight with a paddle tire set up as those 32" dirt tires/wheel combo are in the 65lb+ range.  All the little stuff they put on the UTV just add up.  

I thought you did a lot of stuff to shave some weight off you car.  

I will be curious to see how much my friend's Funco will weigh when he is done with his remodel.  He has a Gen 4 that he is removing the back seats and making a 2 seater. Adding a big fuel cell, converting the suspension to the bigger stuff, and he will be running a turbo Honda motor.  

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3 minutes ago, onanysunday said:

Where are you seeing any experts predicting these kinds of numbers for mortgage rates? Of course right now at over 5% we have exceeded what many experts said we would climb to this year.

I have several friends in the business.  One of which owns a mortgage company.  I was talking to him the other day about this.  The Feds are raising the rates to make money expensive to get inflation in check.  There will be another increase in the interest rates soon. 

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3 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

The Pro R is a 4 cylinder motor.  Not sure how much it weighs.  The cars will shed a little weight with a paddle tire set up as those 32" dirt tires/wheel combo are in the 65lb+ range.  All the little stuff they put on the UTV just add up.  

I thought you did a lot of stuff to shave some weight off you car.  

I will be curious to see how much my friend's Funco will weigh when he is done with his remodel.  He has a Gen 4 that he is removing the back seats and making a 2 seater. Adding a big fuel cell, converting the suspension to the bigger stuff, and he will be running a turbo Honda motor.  

My concentration was a little about shaving weight but more about weight relocation. Best thing I ever did. Have him post a thread. I have a cool gas tank I can sell for $1000. Multiple baffles to control slosh too

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On 5/7/2022 at 8:56 AM, Lord of the Dunes said:

The part John didn't emphasize is his chassis and suspension is all chromo. Since it's stronger than whatever Polaris uses, in order for Polaris to beef up their chassis and suspension and lack of proper triangulation, they used thicker fence posts, added more non structural tubing, and added all kinds of weight, like the solid steel bars on the rear arms just to band aid a horrible suspension design with too much toe change. If they did a better job at engineering it, they wouldn't have had to add more weight to the unsprung portion of their suspension, which according to physics, automatically results in a worse ride from the rear suspension. This in turn leads to another band aid - electronic shocks. More weight. Eventually all of the bad choices and band aids add a huge amount of weight.

I would have mentioned the pool noodles attached with zipties, but those don't weigh much, they just make me laugh harder.

:lol:

Yet you have never seen one up close or ridden in a Pro R, but yet your engineering degree and keen eye have you making all those conclusions.  LOL!!!

Yes Polaris increased the diameter of the tubing used as well as the wall thickness to strengthen the car.  Yes there are some dead tubes used that add to the weight.  As well as  I believe it was 3" diameter drive shafts (can't remember what the polaris guy said when I saw the Pro R in person, bigger hardware, and bigger everything compared to previous models

The El Jeffe will probably end up weighing very close to what the Pro R 4 seater weighs. They have not given their official weight yet.  

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7 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

My concentration was a little about shaving weight but more about weight relocation. Best thing I ever did. Have him post a thread. I have a cool gas tank I can sell for $1000. Multiple baffles to control slosh too

He is not a member here, but I will see if I can convince him to sign up and do a thread.  His car will be nice when he is done.  What size is the gas tank?  I will pass on the information. 

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On 5/7/2022 at 8:59 AM, Lord of the Dunes said:

Thank you for your fake concern. We'll see how Polaris and CanAm escape these same economic conditions and possible sales slump. They're all in the same economy.

Difference is Polaris and Can Am are not start up companies trying to make a go of it.  Both have already survived economic 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 9:25 AM, Lord of the Dunes said:

I'm going to ignore all of your spelling errors and concentrate on your unfounded faith in Polaris and BRP.

While they do make a variety of products, most of them are in the "nice to have" categories, rather than the "essential for life" categories. We don't need UTVs, ATVs, PWCs or small aircraft, or even small commercial aircraft. As the economy slows down, so do sales of those items, especially commercial aircraft.

Now if they produced food or bombs, they might be in a recession proof sector of the economy. They might have more money in the coffers, but then look at GE or IBM now, compared to what they once were. Even the giants of their sectors go the way of dinosaurs, because they move like dinosaurs.

I guess you forget that Polaris has huge military contracts.  BRP also has sizable military contracts.  Both companies survived the 2008 recession.  Although BRP barely survived.  

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/09/06/polaris-a-resilient-company-for-hard-times.aspx

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