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5 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Show me the factory UTV with 300hp and a warranty. :biggrin:

Also, curious on how what the power band will look like on these. Probably gonna be some decent revs and clutching to get  there. 300hp on 1L means a large turbo for the displacement. Anyone seen dyno charts?

Uh, that was a literal car crash… Wouldn’t exactly call that normal use. 

Go back a few pages, someone posted the actual dyno chart. It was probably TL/DR, that's why you missed the single pic. The torque band was surprisingly high and flat.

Yes, that was a wreck. Even a Rhino is strong enough if you don't wreck it. That's when you find out just how strong something really is, when it gets wrecked. Take that much mass, accelerate it to XX velocity and see how it holds up. As I've been saying, these things are getting too fast with not enough strength to handle a G-out, or witches eye or a collision. The Pro R has plenty of mass, plenty of power...

just not quite enough strength.

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21 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Show me the factory UTV with 300hp and a warranty. :biggrin:

 

Speed is offering a warranty for use of the Speed key. 

I think its an extra $1500.

Technically a factory warranty for a factory tune. 

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41 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Show me the factory UTV with 300hp and a warranty. :biggrin:

Also, curious on how what the power band will look like on these. Probably gonna be some decent revs and clutching to get  there. 300hp on 1L means a large turbo for the displacement. Anyone seen dyno charts?

Me and a couple guys posted it on page 131. Believe it redlines at 8,500 rpm with plenty more in reserve. 

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50 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Go back a few pages, someone posted the actual dyno chart. It was probably TL/DR, that's why you missed the single pic. The torque band was surprisingly high and flat.

Yes, that was a wreck. Even a Rhino is strong enough if you don't wreck it. That's when you find out just how strong something really is, when it gets wrecked. Take that much mass, accelerate it to XX velocity and see how it holds up. As I've been saying, these things are getting too fast with not enough strength to handle a G-out, or witches eye or a collision. The Pro R has plenty of mass, plenty of power...

just not quite enough strength.

Wreck as in collision with another vehicle…

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, CampfiresNbrews said:

Me and a couple guys posted it on page 131. Believe it redlines at 8,500 rpm with plenty more in reserve. 

Impressive. Looks like lots of revs, still curious what torque is like below 6000rpm.

Edited by Rockwood
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2 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Word. Lots of revs, but whats torque like below 6000rpm? 

Its gonna have a power band like a two stroke dirt bike with that turbo ... but its on e85 and will help keep the IATs down so they can bring the timing in faster.  My guess is that it will feel impressive. (when we see one - still waiting for that first report from a real end user..)

I would hope the CVT will keep it in the powerband, it shoiuld feel pretty good once you get going. CVTs are pretty amazing in that way albeit it should ends with overheated and broken belts  ... but thats expected - routine maintenance

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Fullthrottleguy said:

Its gonna have a power band like a two stroke dirt bike with that turbo ... but its on e85 and will help keep the IATs down so they can bring the timing in faster.  My guess is that it will feel impressive. (when we see one - still waiting for that first report from a real end user..)

I would hope the CVT will keep it in the powerband, it shoiuld feel pretty good once you get going. CVTs are pretty amazing in that way albeit it should ends with overheated and broken belts  ... but thats expected - routine maintenance

Yep. 300hp in a 2400-ish lb car is gonna be strong.  Question for end users will be whether or not it’s responsive. I’ve driven small engines making 300hp/L. Hopefully James can work some anti-lag magic into the tune. :biggrin:

Still… always can use more. :biggrin:

Edited by Rockwood
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Yep. 300hp in a 2400-ish lb car is gonna be strong. 

Still… always can use more. :biggrin:

My 2 seat sand car weighs 1960 dry (soon to be 2050)  and it is chromo, well triangulated, has a 840 RWHP Blown LS, and S4 trans, 934's etc...  Getting a HP fix this summer  looking for 1,000 RWHP  I am sure it still won't be fast enough, but it feels safe...  300HP in a UTV, is gonna be a hand ful, especially for a NEWBIE

Edited by Fullthrottleguy
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3 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

I would try to explain it to you, but I damn near ran out of patience when I spent 3 weeks explaining double shear to you. Over and over and over, picture after picture after picture.

I'm just going to leave you to wallow in your ignorance. Someone else can tackle this one.

:biggrin:

Yup. Looks strong enough to some people.

Yes please post a picture of a UTV that was in a head on collision at high speed to show us what?  That a car got messed up.   lol! You say I am ignorant.  At least I was smart enough not to buy a Wildcat.  🤣🤣🤣🤣

The stock Speed is 225ish hp on 91 octane.   Can Am on 91 from the factory is 200hp.   Speed is 300 with the key that unlocks the tune for E85.   Plenty of Can Am X3s with big hp on E85 running around.   
 

By the way It would not take much for Can Am to make a stock 300hp car.  They already have a 300hp Sea Doo and that is on pump gas, not E85.  Also consider that the current X3 motor is only 899cc they have room to grow.  
 

 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Impressive. Looks like lots of revs, still curious what torque is like below 6000rpm.

All the UTVs make peak hp and torque in the high RPM ranges.  In the 6,000rpm range you are not moving very fast.  I would say most us are riding around in the 7200-7900rpm range in the dunes with occasional spikes above 8000 rpm depending on the UTV motor.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sand Shark
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23 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

All the UTVs make peak hp and torque in the high RPM ranges.  In the 6,000rpm range you are not moving very fast.  I would say most us are riding around in the 7200-7900rpm range in the dunes with occasional spikes above 8000 rpm depending on the UTV motor. 

Word. Gearing is fun. 

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I found two pictures with HP & TQ numbers and charts. 
 

This first picture is from back in Sept 2020. 
AB398670-D0AA-4C5B-A8F0-A5B61DCF629E.thumb.jpeg.5f8141251f577c2b3c8b9668f869ed70.jpeg
 

Then here are two graphs. One showing stock tune and one on E85. 
 

Stock tune on the left shows 243 hp with 147 lbs of torque at 7500 rpm. What they were impressed with is how lateral the torque curve was. They had 145 lbs of torque at 6000 rpm. The chart on the right is the E85 and they peaked at 310 hp and 197 lbs of torque. The torque again was pretty lateral with 188 lbs at 6000 rpm. But dropped off significantly between 8000 & 9000 RPM. 

C93CDA3E-07DC-4214-A472-FF0FE1BBBF29.thumb.png.04d3eae1416686a031f323f13a03afb4.png

 

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Posted (edited)

I remember Tony Cola saying that the engine made 250 hp EASILY on the stock tune. The graph was after they started detuning it to meet the 230 hp RG wants. Pretty damn impressive for such a little engine. Check out Episode 40 at the 20 minute mark for more details. The aftermarket will be unlocking those extra 20+hp in no time. 
 

Edit:

Found it. Here it is. 

 

Edited by CampfiresNbrews
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1 hour ago, CampfiresNbrews said:

I remember Tony Cola saying that the engine made 250 hp EASILY on the stock tune. The graph was after they started detuning it to meet the 230 hp RG wants. Pretty damn impressive for such a little engine. Check out Episode 40 at the 20 minute mark for more details. The aftermarket will be unlocking those extra 20+hp in no time. 
 

Edit:

Found it. Here it is. 

 

Hopefully at 230hp it not up against the edge for 91 so the tuners can offer  tune for those they don’t want to run race gas.  

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Posted (edited)

In this video, RG gave a tour of the Arrington engine shop, talking about the port and polish area, dyno area, spin, etc. While he was doing that, the camera panned over a torque gauge that displayed 440 ft-lbs before the image changed. The exhaust note didn't sound like a V8 to me, it sounded like the Speed 2 cyl, but RG did not say anything about it so it might be wishful thinking on my part. It makes me wonder if they did make 440 ft-lbs on E85. The reason I suspect that is I remember when they first dyno'd the engine, someone with the FB name "Speed UTV" posted that they did a max. hp dyno run and the engine made 300hp on 91 and 500 hp on E85. Very shortly after that the post was deleted, then he posted that it made 225 hp on 91 an 300 hp on E85. I thought this was really suspicious because those were the exact numbers RG said they would deliver, so that lead me to believe that they might actually have hit 300/500 hp but backed it off and detuned it to exactly 225/300 hp.

My point being, if they did actually get 300/500hp, then aftermarket tuners will be able to unlock that power as well. I'm assuming at that power level it wouldn't last more than one season, if that, before it needs a rebuild. The torque gauge is at 17 seconds.

 

Edited by Lord of the Dunes
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8 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

In this video, RG gave a tour of the Arrington engine shop, talking about the port and polish area, dyno area, spin, etc. While he was doing that, the camera panned over a torque gauge that displayed 440 ft-lbs before the image changed. The exhaust note didn't sound like a V8 to me, it sounded like the Speed 2 cyl, but RG did not say anything about it so it might be wishful thinking on my part. It makes me wonder if they did make 440 ft-lbs on E85. The reason I suspect that is I remember when they first dyno'd the engine, someone with the FB name "Speed UTV" posted that they did a max. hp dyno run and the engine made 300hp on 91 and 500 hp on E85. Very shortly after that the post was deleted, then he posted that it made 225 hp on 91 an 300 hp on E85. I thought this was really suspicious because those were the exact numbers RG said they would deliver, so that lead me to believe that they might actually have hit 300/500 hp but backed it off and detuned it to exactly 225/300 hp.

My point being, if they did actually get 300/500hp, then aftermarket tuners will be able to unlock that power as well. I'm assuming at that power level it wouldn't last more than one season, if that, before it needs a rebuild. The torque gauge is at 17 seconds.

 

  It will be interesting to see if tuners mess with the Speed motor and what they can do.   

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Todd Romona has said several times. Once to me in person and on a few live shows he was hosting. That he plans on running a Bandit in the dunes and it will have 500 hp. I bet Greg Biffle will have one too! 

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6 minutes ago, NIKAL said:

Todd Romona has said several times. Once to me in person and on a few live shows he was hosting. That he plans on running a Bandit in the dunes and it will have 500 hp. I bet Greg Biffle will have one too! 

Again don't shoot the messenger if it doesn't pan out but he said they will be putting a V8 in at least one for KOH. He also said the #1 item currently is getting them to customers as soon as they are ready. All the other performance type stuff will happen along side or after.

I think they can do both since the performance and race application stuff if not really associated with the production line stuff. The production line issues will get worked out. Then comes the supply issues which they will note be able to deal with as easy. 

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20 minutes ago, NIKAL said:

Todd Romona has said several times. Once to me in person and on a few live shows he was hosting. That he plans on running a Bandit in the dunes and it will have 500 hp. I bet Greg Biffle will have one too! 

We shall see.  Biffle has his company Pace Offroad and he loves the Z1 motor. 

All that hp does no good if the clutches and belt don't hold up.  

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7 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

We shall see.  Biffle has his company Pace Offroad and he loves the Z1 motor. 

All that hp does no good if the clutches and belt don't hold up.  

I have been in his compound at Glamis. Was very impressed. Never seen so much billet machining in my life. I hope he gets one of the first ones to start seeing what can be done. I want to be reliable but have enough for duning a few times a year otherwise I know it will good enough out of the factory. Hope I get mine by Oct 2023 I am way down the line.

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When I had Outfront tune my Subaru I mixed in a gallon of some race gas with 4 gallons of 91. I did this for sand duning only. Ended up with 291 crank and 198 to wheels by Johns words. I could feel such a difference over the prior non turbo engine that was doing 180ish crank HP. Now the 2.5 SOC is not a V8 but if I drove the manx any harder I would just break more chit. I Have found over time that only in the sand dunes do I even need that extra HP/TQ. When I hit the trails or pavement The car is more then fast enough for my needs. I hope mabey the same will be true with the speed when ever I get it. I would rather pick up a 5 gallon can of race gas and get 20 to 25 more HP for the dunes and then just use 91 for every thing else. I am getting the windshield and my biggest concern I seeing what the stock fan/raditor will handle. It sound like that is the bottle neck. Will be watching what they do for the race applications as soon as they get some teams up and running. 

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7 minutes ago, jginsandiego said:

I have been in his compound at Glamis. Was very impressed. Never seen so much billet machining in my life. I hope he gets one of the first ones to start seeing what can be done. I want to be reliable but have enough for duning a few times a year otherwise I know it will good enough out of the factory. Hope I get mine by Oct 2023 I am way down the line.

Biffle's UTV is pretty cool.  He can turn down the boost and dune it or turn it up to drag race.

We watched a little bit of the racing a few seasons ago at his compound. 

 

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12 hours ago, Sand Shark said:

Hopefully at 230hp it not up against the edge for 91 so the tuners can offer  tune for those they don’t want to run race gas.  

I think it’ll be plenty safe. Check out what they said here. 

AD97ED12-7F78-4FF8-A7D3-7E058166EFAB.jpeg

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On 5/16/2022 at 9:04 AM, Sand Shark said:

We shall see.  Biffle has his company Pace Offroad and he loves the Z1 motor. 

All that hp does no good if the clutches and belt don't hold up.  

From what I have seen in the Sand Outlaws Drag Racing series, belts appear to be the number one failure point. Probably one of the reasons Yamaha is a popular choice in that series in addition to weight and size. 
As the demands for higher horsepower increase in CVT driven cars, it seems that the belt manufactures have some catching up to do. 
Wouldn’t going to a wider and thicker belt make it stronger?

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