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More Legislation Requiring Vaccines


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3 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 

Now what if vaxxed joe ends up in the ER due to heart inflammation, or neuropathy? 
 

should insurance pay for that, since he chose to get the vaccine?

what if you cartwheel your sand car and crushed a limb, and had to be air flighted? Should insurance pay for that’s since you took the risk driving a Sandcar at high speeds?

on most other things we can probably agree... but you’re losing me when you talk about vaxxed vs un vaxxed in relation to insurance. There are a lot of vaxxed people ending up on vents and dying... and some just having life changing adverse effects to the vaccine. 
 

my family has already had the Rona... my wife thought it was her seasonal allergies, I didn’t even know I had it, and one daughter had headaches. But somehow I should be penalized on my insurance premiums according to your thought process. 

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I think forcing someone to get a vaccination (a medical procedure) should be absolutely illegal. This country was founded on our inalienable rights, and a vaccine mandate tramples on our 4th amendment rights, at the very least. It goes against the very foundation of what this country was founded on.

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2 minutes ago, EmpirE231 said:

Now what if vaxxed joe ends up in the ER due to heart inflammation, or neuropathy? 
 

should insurance pay for that, since he chose to get the vaccine?

what if you cartwheel your sand car and crushed a limb, and had to be air flighted? Should insurance pay for that’s since you took the risk driving a Sandcar at high speeds?

on most other things we can probably agree... but you’re losing me when you talk about vaxxed vs un vaxxed in relation to insurance. There are a lot of vaxxed people ending up on vents and dying... and some just having life changing adverse effects to the vaccine. 
 

my family has already had the Rona... my wife thought it was her seasonal allergies, I didn’t even know I had it, and one daughter had headaches. But somehow I should be penalized on my insurance premiums according to your thought process. 

No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...

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6 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...

Well now you’re saying let’s get rid of insurance all together.... I can get behind getting rid of health insurance. That would actually bring the cost of health / medical related services wayyyy down. Ever since Obamacare was passed and insurance had become even more socialized.. costs have gone up and service quality has gone down. The original intent of insurance is for “transfer of risk” and you were not forced to  participate in that... so most people didn’t mind the “social net” of insurance because it was voluntary and reasonable in most cases.... and now we can thank Obamacare and government for ruining that. 

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Aren't most of us after 65 yrs old on socialist medical insurance, it is called Medicare.  Fact is, whether you are vaxxed or not, when you end up in the hospital, we are all paying some way or another.  For the most part we are all in this together.  We are all paying for these shots as well, right out of our taxes.

FYI, don't jump on me, I'd rather pay for just me, screw you all.🤪

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7 minutes ago, EmpirE231 said:

Well now you’re saying let’s get rid of insurance all together.... I can get behind getting rid of health insurance. That would actually bring the cost of health / medical related services wayyyy down. Ever since Obamacare was passed and insurance had become even more socialized.. costs have gone up and service quality has gone down. The original intent of insurance is for “transfer of risk” and you were not forced to  participate in that... so most people didn’t mind the “social net” of insurance because it was voluntary and reasonable in most cases.... and now we can thank Obamacare and government for ruining that. 

Yes! My apologies for not originally expressing it correctly in the first place!

I read a story about a couple who had a baby in San Diego in the mid 2000's and it cost them $10,000 for average pre and post natal service.

They moved to Ensenada and got the same level of medical attention in terms of medical equipment, but more personalized attention because they saw the same doctor and nurse every trip. Identical medical care, but only $300 for the 2nd baby in Ensenada. Their point was, the added expenses in CA were not adding any value. The HMO expenses, malpractice insurance premiums and pharmaceutical companies gouging for medication in the US only - added all of that extra expense.

Obamacare did nothing to lower costs, it only increased them by forcing everyone to get insurance, so insurance went up. 

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12 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...

 

12 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...

the whole problem with the vax is the drug company shares no liability I cant blame anyone for not want a vaccine that was rolled out in this fashion.   my family has a history of blood clots I will never get a vaccine that has a side effect of blood clots. I've seen first hand how bad a blood clot can be (not from the vax) in my 5 yr old sons brain and how different the treatment is from different hospitals 36hrs in the first hospital and billed 84k   3 week in children's hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) bill cam to 124k 2 weeks in icu.  CHOP is a non profit teaching hospital one of the best in the country. there care was ten times better than the 1st hospital which was a level 1 trauma center but they care more about the money than the care. people have their reasons for not wanting to get vaxed this was first supposed to be a two shot deal now the are talking about a 4th booster its only been out a little over a year and a half are we supposed to become a vaccine dependent society. I feel that with every shot you get it chips away at your own body ability to create a immune response to the next dieses . I say stop already with this vaccine that hasn't really proven its self and get focused on creating a real and reliable treatment. that wont happen any time soon cause the drug company's stand to make a lot more selling vaccines to everyone and not only treating the ones that are sick.  

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50 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 

So your vaxxed and wear a mask in public to help stem off the current pandemic or no?

Simple question.

I'm not for Socialized Healthcare in any shape or form. I pay top dollar for PPO in that my family can choose the best Doctors, not some flunky that is assigned our healthcare account.

I agree that Drug Abuse, Smoking, Alcoholism, etc should not be paid for off the back of everyone else who made better life choices. Leave the guys who like McRibs Alone! Everyone has their vices, even the PPOG.

BUT....that's just how the world works. Your a submarine guy, there are plenty of rules or restrictions in place because somebody else made a dumb mistake. Pick any safety topic, somebody got killed or maimed and another entity had to step in to help us from ourselves :lol:

I support Darwin's Law, I support Capitalism and the Freedom to make your own choices...for better or worse.

IF this VAX was proven and the real science behind its effects made public...I might feel different about it.

Right now its against my personal choices.

 

We have 2 of 6 that are C-19 Positive right now today in my house...Trip to Philly this Friday is out. Bummer cause they can make a mean Cheese Steak 😞   I hope our experience is the same as everyone else that has had the Omicron, well except a fellow Hockey Coach from Rancho Cucamonga - Andy, he passed from C-19 this past weekend. (Big, Pre-Diab, etc)

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1 minute ago, Crusty said:

So your vaxxed and wear a mask in public to help stem off the current pandemic or no?

Simple question.

I'm not for Socialized Healthcare in any shape or form. I pay top dollar for PPO in that my family can choose the best Doctors, not some flunky that is assigned our healthcare account.

I agree that Drug Abuse, Smoking, Alcoholism, etc should not be paid for off the back of everyone else who made better life choices. Leave the guys who like McRibs Alone! Everyone has their vices, even the PPOG.

BUT....that's just how the world works. Your a submarine guy, there are plenty of rules or restrictions in place because somebody else made a dumb mistake. Pick any safety topic, somebody got killed or maimed and another entity had to step in to help us from ourselves :lol:

I support Darwin's Law, I support Capitalism and the Freedom to make your own choices...for better or worse.

IF this VAX was proven and the real science behind its effects made public...I might feel different about it.

Right now its against my personal choices.

 

We have 2 of 6 that are C-19 Positive right now today in my house...Trip to Philly this Friday is out. Bummer cause they can make a mean Cheese Steak 😞   I hope our experience is the same as everyone else that has had the Omicron, well except a fellow Hockey Coach from Rancho Cucamonga - Andy, he passed from C-19 this past weekend. (Big, Pre-Diab, etc)

Yes, I'm vaxxed and wear a mask in public. I don't have anyone in my family to spread it to, but I still err on the side of caution to try not to spread the virus, even if some people feel there are risks associated with the vaccine. 

As was pointed out later in the thread, I'm against health insurance. It's just a form of socialism, the way it's being implemented.

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I'm not vaxxed, don't wear a mask and maintain my same normal as I always have.  I have healthcare and don't pay for it, you all do.

So...suck it.  :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 

Dave most likely caught Covid from Joe prior to him feeling sick.  Joe runs around like he's free and clear because he got jab'd.  However, he's now a super spreader because his diseased arrogant azz is allowed to move freely about, " 'cuz I'm triple vax'd".

Thanks, Joe...  You just infected over a dozen people.  3 of which died, all jab'd.  One had asthma, another type 1 diabetic, and the last had heart conditions from getting jab'd.  Thankfully Dave survived. Now all our premiums are going up.

Way to go Joe.

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57 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

 

I read a story about a couple who had a baby in San Diego in the mid 2000's and it cost them $10,000 for average pre and post natal service.

They moved to Ensenada and got the same level of medical attention in terms of medical equipment, but more personalized attention because they saw the same doctor and nurse every trip. Identical medical care, but only $300 for the 2nd baby in Ensenada. Their point was, the added expenses in CA were not adding any value. The HMO expenses, malpractice insurance premiums and pharmaceutical companies gouging for medication in the US only - added all of that extra expense.

 

Heath care in Mexico is subsidized. 

My ex FIL got stung by a ray in Rocky Point.  Ambulance ride to the hospital, Meds, etc.. $0

Another friend broke is wrist in RP.  Dr.'s visit, splint, meds. $0

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1 hour ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 

The biggest contributor to death and health care costs including with covid patients is the rampant obesity in america. Cdc should be recommending treadmills not shots.

im healthy fit, and unvaxxed. Dont wear a mask. Had omicron between xmas and new year. Was a day of chills and mild high temp and i felt a little tired and i’ve cost the taxpayer nothing.

one size does  not fit all. Biggest effing problem with govt. they blanket everything.....health care, military jets, Welfare, time to vote less govt of all wings

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20 minutes ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Dave most likely caught Covid from Joe prior to him feeling sick.  Joe runs around like he's free and clear because he got jab'd.  However, he's now a super spreader because his diseased arrogant azz is allowed to move freely about, " 'cuz I'm triple vax'd".

Thanks, Joe...  You just infected over a dozen people.  3 of which died, all jab'd.  One had asthma, another type 1 diabetic, and the last had heart conditions from getting jab'd.  Thankfully Dave survived. Now all our premiums are going up.

Way to go Joe.

Most likely?

 

:lol:

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17 minutes ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Heath care in Mexico is subsidized. 

My ex FIL got stung by a ray in Rocky Point.  Ambulance ride to the hospital, Meds, etc.. $0

Another friend broke is wrist in RP.  Dr.'s visit, splint, meds. $0

It's only subsidized for Mexican citizens.

These were American citizens living on a boat in Ensenada. No subsidized medical care for them. $300 was the actual cost of her pre and post natal care.

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All Mexican citizens are eligible for subsidized healthcare regardless of their work status via a system of health care facilities operating under the federal Secretariat of Health (formerly the Secretaría de Salubridad y Asistencia, or SSA) agency through the program called INSABI which offers coverage to Mexicans who do not have formal employment.

 

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12 minutes ago, Sausage450r said:

The biggest contributor to death and health care costs including with covid patients is the rampant obesity in america. Cdc should be recommending treadmills not shots.

im healthy fit, and unvaxxed. Dont wear a mask. Had omicron between xmas and new year. Was a day of chills and mild high temp and i felt a little tired and i’ve cost the taxpayer nothing.

one size does  not fit all. Biggest effing problem with govt. they blanket everything.....health care, military jets, Welfare, time to vote less govt of all wings

True. Nobody dies of Covid. They die of complications due to other health issues exacerbated by the reduced lung function of Covid reaction in the lungs.

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10 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

True. Nobody dies of Covid. They die of complications due to other health issues exacerbated by the reduced lung function of Covid reaction in the lungs.

not 100% true just like the jab covid can create blood clots and kill you

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2 hours ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

True. Nobody dies of Covid. They die of complications due to other health issues exacerbated by the reduced lung function of Covid reaction in the lungs.

Once again causation or correlation lung function supression can be related to many issues ie heart function, electrolyte imbalance, embolism, dehydration, allergies, acid reflux, etc

unfortunately our medical system is more concerned with filling out liability reports for lawyers (not to mention covid treatment compensation forms) vs documenting the root of an issue (read: treating the symptom not the problem) this is why even doctors cannot say wtf someone actually died of. 

The world is effed and the people fiddle while rome burns

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31 minutes ago, Sausage450r said:

Once again causation or correlation lung function supression can be related to many issues ie heart function, electrolyte imbalance, embolism, dehydration, allergies, acid reflux, etc

unfortunately our medical system is more concerned with filling out liability reports for lawyers (not to mention covid treatment compensation forms) vs documenting the root of an issue (read: treating the symptom not the problem) this is why even doctors cannot say wtf someone actually died of. 

The world is effed and the people fiddle while rome burns

Yes, but every one of them was living WITH those other problems until Covid came along. They might not have been in the best of health, but how do you explain the deaths of people like Monica's brother in law and others who were in excellent shape and excellent health? In some cases, people had underlying problems, in other cases, they didn't.

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During a severe or critical bout with COVID-19, the body has many reactions: Lung tissue swells with fluid, making lungs less elastic. The immune system goes into overdrive, sometimes at the expense of other organs. As your body fights one infection, it is more susceptible to additional infections

Even if other infections don't attack, the inability to draw in oxygen through the lungs due to fluids in the lungs, an immune system reaction (a cytokine storm) is why victims end up on a ventilator, in a vain attempt to maintain 02 levels.

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I didn't realize Bill Gates joined GD.com to share all his medical advice and expertise....

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4 hours ago, Mac said:

I didn't realize Bill Gates joined GD.com to share all his medical advice and expertise....

You're welcome Nancy Pelosi...

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SCOTUS just shot down the Biden OSHA mandate but upheld the healthcare worker mandate.

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4 minutes ago, THD said:

SCOTUS just shot down the Biden OSHA mandate but upheld the healthcare worker mandate.

F*CKNG AA!! Take that Brandon!! 

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My builder just came down with COVID. He's vaccinated and Boostered. WHAM. Feels like crap and laying in bed with a massive headache / Fever / and now sweats. No appetite. He's another one who followed the Lead of Fauci's so called SCIENCE. Peace

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