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On 9/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, NIKAL said:

Yes Onan 5500. 

Still looking Nikal - we have gone through both our amazon and ebay accounts and can't find the purchases 😞

Will let you know if I figure out where we bought them from!

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25 minutes ago, luvdunin said:

What is "wall sag"?

Different from delamination?

Yes.  

People call it wall sag but it is actually the floor starting to bow up.

There should be supports from side to side of the trailer.

Also there should be supports from the frame to the wheel wells.  

On triple axle trailers, there is close to 6' with no support.

Delamination normally happens from a water leak and the wood below the surface starts to rot.

Happens alot on front caps and you can tell as it looks "bubbly".

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22 minutes ago, luvdunin said:

What is "wall sag"?

Different from delamination?

Yes wall sag is different. Wall sag is when the exterior walls that have no interior structural support transfer the roof weight down the walls and onto the floor out past the "trailer" frame rails. The lack of out rigger support as well as frame flex from it not having enough cross bracing allows the walls to start sagging.

You usually can find out quickly if your trailer is suffering from this is to open the rear door stand at the rear of the trailer on the street side and bounce up and down.  You will see where the cabinets are pulling away from the exterior walls. Well actually where the walls are separating from your cabinets.

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2 hours ago, lincster said:

Yes.  

People call it wall sag but it is actually the floor starting to bow up.

There should be supports from side to side of the trailer.

Also there should be supports from the frame to the wheel wells.  

On triple axle trailers, there is close to 6' with no support.

Delamination normally happens from a water leak and the wood below the surface starts to rot.

Happens alot on front caps and you can tell as it looks "bubbly".

Thanks for the explanation, Lincster.

Knew what delam was but had never heard of wall sag.

All 3 axles?

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2 hours ago, MWB said:

Yes wall sag is different. Wall sag is when the exterior walls that have no interior structural support transfer the roof weight down the walls and onto the floor out past the "trailer" frame rails. The lack of out rigger support as well as frame flex from it not having enough cross bracing allows the walls to start sagging.

You usually can find out quickly if your trailer is suffering from this is to open the rear door stand at the rear of the trailer on the street side and bounce up and down.  You will see where the cabinets are pulling away from the exterior walls. Well actually where the walls are separating from your cabinets.

Interesting.

Will have to try that next time we're out at the trailer.

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16 hours ago, luvdunin said:

Thanks for the explanation, Lincster.

Knew what delam was but had never heard of wall sag.

All 3 axles?

I'm sure some 2 axle trailers get it, but for sure worse on 3 axles.

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On 9/15/2021 at 7:53 AM, Sand Shark said:

The pricing is insane, but the dealer was willing to knocked off a good chunk.

Just so you know, the rule of thumb on new RVs is 24-28% off MSRP.  My '17 Dutch Star I got new was about 27% off and the '21 Thor I got new was more like 25% (but during Covid).  My '19 MA I have now I got used, but I have the original paperwork and he was around 26% off MSRP as well. 

 

-TJ

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12 minutes ago, tjZ06 said:

Just so you know, the rule of thumb on new RVs is 24-28% off MSRP.  My '17 Dutch Star I got new was about 27% off and the '21 Thor I got new was more like 25% (but during Covid).  My '19 MA I have now I got used, but I have the original paperwork and he was around 26% off MSRP as well. 

 

-TJ

Do you think it's till the same at today's prices? I'm in the market for a new toy Hauler.

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3 minutes ago, DOGGY said:

Do you think it's till the same at today's prices? I'm in the market for a new toy Hauler.

Contact Jeremy at Major RV in Hisperia, Ca. For current industry info. He is a manager there and he will give it to you straight on prices and supply. One of the very rare no BS people in the RV Industry. We have purchased two trailers from him in the past five years.

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21 minutes ago, tjZ06 said:

Just so you know, the rule of thumb on new RVs is 24-28% off MSRP.  My '17 Dutch Star I got new was about 27% off and the '21 Thor I got new was more like 25% (but during Covid).  My '19 MA I have now I got used, but I have the original paperwork and he was around 26% off MSRP as well. 

 

-TJ

I got them to knock off 15% without asking and when we ran some numbers it was around 20% off.   I could of pushed it to 25% off, but the numbers were not going to change enough that I was going to make a deal.   I have seen the model we were looking at in Texas for about $20K less.  So I have a number I know the local dealer can get close to matching. 

We were really just looking to see what floorplans we like and narrow down the search when we are ready to pull the trigger.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, DOGGY said:

Do you think it's till the same at today's prices? I'm in the market for a new toy Hauler.

The dealers currently do not have to mark down the pricing dramatically because people are still eager to purchase.  When the market slows down some and the dealers are sitting on inventory the pricing will come down some. 

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15 minutes ago, DOGGY said:

Do you think it's till the same at today's prices? I'm in the market for a new toy Hauler.

TODAY I'm not sure.  I also bought a new '19 Genesis Envy (I have issues) and was somewhere in that same 24-28% range (IIRC, on the lower end).  So, I think that rule of thumb *did* apply to THs too, but 2 years into Covid-pricing, who knows?  Unless you HAVE to buy right now, I'd wait.  More people than ever bought RVs in the last two years, not all of them are going to be "cut out for RV life" or end up using them enough.  They're going to find all the extra expenses they didn't think about, and see it just sitting around most of the time and end up selling.  I'm thinking something like 18-24mo from now used RVs are going to be "on sale." 

 

-TJ

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3 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

I got them to knock off 15% without asking and when we ran some numbers it was around 20% off.   I could of pushed it to 25% off, but the numbers were not going to change enough that I was going to make a deal.   I have seen the model we were looking at in Texas for about $20K less.  So I have a number I know the local dealer can get close to matching. 

We were really just looking to see what floorplans we like and narrow down the search when we are ready to pull the trigger.  

 

 

Gotcha, as long as you know the market and are aware of the general pricing rule-of-thumb, all good. Just out of curiosity, what coaches are you looking at? 

 

-TJ

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1 minute ago, tjZ06 said:

Gotcha, as long as you know the market and are aware of the general pricing rule-of-thumb, all good. Just out of curiosity, what coaches are you looking at? 

 

-TJ

I appreciate the information.

We are looking a gas Class A in the 32-36' range.  Been looking at the Winnebago Adventurer 36Z and 35F.  They had a Georgetown GT5 31LM.  I had not been in a Georgetown in a long time.  They definitely stepped up there game. We liked the Georgetown a lot better over the Winnebago.  It was a better floor plan, held more water and seemed a little nicer inside.  Bonus was tons of storage in the jockey boxes with a huge one in the rear and a few that pass through.   It was weird to walk into a Forest River product and feel that it was put together nicer than the Winnebago.   We have also looked at the Thor Miramar 35.2 and some Newmars.  

My only issue with Newmar gas motorhomes  is they don't give you a lot storage in the jockey box and most do not come with the bunk over the driver area.  We have a kid and we are tired of making up the couch or table.

The Georgetown 31LM was a pleasant surprise.  Only suspect thing is they use a NPS Generator, which has a Yamaha motor in it.  It is louder than my Onan5500.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

I appreciate the information.

We are looking a gas Class A in the 32-36' range.  Been looking at the Winnebago Adventurer 36Z and 35F.  They had a Georgetown GT5 31LM.  I had not been in a Georgetown in a long time.  They definitely stepped up there game. We liked the Georgetown a lot better over the Winnebago.  It was a better floor plan, held more water and seemed a little nicer inside.  Bonus was tons of storage in the jockey boxes with a huge one in the rear and a few that pass through.   It was weird to walk into a Forest River product and feel that it was put together nicer than the Winnebago.   We have also looked at the Thor Miramar 35.2 and some Newmars.  

My only issue with Newmar gas motorhomes  is they don't give you a lot storage in the jockey box and most do not come with the bunk over the driver area.  We have a kid and we are tired of making up the couch or table.

The Georgetown 31LM was a pleasant surprise.  Only suspect thing is they use a NPS Generator, which has a Yamaha motor in it.  It is louder than my Onan5500.  

 

I don't want to take this thread too-far off topic, so feel free to PM me to.  But please, please, PLEASE consider something other than a gas class A.  Have you driven them?  I've had several different trailers, and never minded towing them and they always felt stable.  I've had (or have) 2 diesel pushers, 1 diesel super C, and one gas class A.  The only one I hated driving was the gasser.  And I put every upgrade you can on it (sway bars, track bars, shocks, steering stabilizers, Sumo springs, etc.).  And it wasn't an ancient POS either, it was a '09 Southwind and I owned it around '14-16.  

Of course, the updated F53 chassis is better, and I'm sure the new 7.3L gas and 10-speed are lightyears better than the 3V V10 and 5-speed I had in my gasser.  BUT, unless they've really kept it from getting blown around and being white-knuckle basically all the time, I'd think about something else.  It seems like you're in similar $ to something like the 2021 Thor Magnitude SV34 I had on the factory Ford 4x4 F550 chassis which drove great.  Yes, the "Super C" layout you give up some living space to the cab... but with your kid that you want a bunk for it's kind of perfect for your use-case.

 

-TJ

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1 hour ago, tjZ06 said:

I don't want to take this thread too-far off topic, so feel free to PM me to.  But please, please, PLEASE consider something other than a gas class A.  Have you driven them?  I've had several different trailers, and never minded towing them and they always felt stable.  I've had (or have) 2 diesel pushers, 1 diesel super C, and one gas class A.  The only one I hated driving was the gasser.  And I put every upgrade you can on it (sway bars, track bars, shocks, steering stabilizers, Sumo springs, etc.).  And it wasn't an ancient POS either, it was a '09 Southwind and I owned it around '14-16.  

Of course, the updated F53 chassis is better, and I'm sure the new 7.3L gas and 10-speed are lightyears better than the 3V V10 and 5-speed I had in my gasser.  BUT, unless they've really kept it from getting blown around and being white-knuckle basically all the time, I'd think about something else.  It seems like you're in similar $ to something like the 2021 Thor Magnitude SV34 I had on the factory Ford 4x4 F550 chassis which drove great.  Yes, the "Super C" layout you give up some living space to the cab... but with your kid that you want a bunk for it's kind of perfect for your use-case.

 

-TJ

I have a gas class A now with a V10.  Just can't be scared to spin the motor. LOL!!!   I don't tow anything heavy (18' trailer with SXS, two quads, gas and fire wood). Mine actually rides very nice.  Absent huge side wind gust it is steady.  I have been looking at the Magnitude, but have not seen one in person yet.     

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7 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

I have a gas class A now with a V10.  Just can't be scared to spin the motor. LOL!!!   I don't tow anything heavy (18' trailer with SXS, two quads, gas and fire wood). Mine actually rides very nice.  Absent huge side wind gust it is steady.  I have been looking at the Magnitude, but have not seen one in person yet.     

It wasn't the spinning the motor I had a problem with (mine actually was pretty decent power-wise with the later 3V V10 and a full Banks kit, I pulled a 20' flatbed with 2 RZRs with it a few times and it was "okay"), it was just white-knuckle if there was any wind, if you got passed by a medium size truck or bigger, if you passed a medium size truck or bigger, if you went over 65, if you sneezed etc.  

And I'm not just a nancy about driving/towing.  I cruise my DP with stacker one-hand goofing off bad enough on my phone to get a ticket for it, lol (dumb, I know, I know).  Perhaps mine was especially bad, but I had it aligned, corner-weighted, and threw ALL the aftermarket stuff at it.  I put ~10k miles on it in under a year, and said effe-this and ordered the Dutch Star. 

Feel free to PM me about the Magnitude, I owned one for about a year, lol...

PXL_20201016_133725750.thumb.jpg.dc8c1b565f982cb1592b013e3de2b71e.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, tjZ06 said:

It wasn't the spinning the motor I had a problem with (mine actually was pretty decent power-wise with the later 3V V10 and a full Banks kit, I pulled a 20' flatbed with 2 RZRs with it a few times and it was "okay"), it was just white-knuckle if there was any wind, if you got passed by a medium size truck or bigger, if you passed a medium size truck or bigger, if you went over 65, if you sneezed etc.  

And I'm not just a nancy about driving/towing.  I cruise my DP with stacker one-hand goofing off bad enough on my phone to get a ticket for it, lol (dumb, I know, I know).  Perhaps mine was especially bad, but I had it aligned, corner-weighted, and threw ALL the aftermarket stuff at it.  I put ~10k miles on it in under a year, and said effe-this and ordered the Dutch Star. 

Feel free to PM me about the Magnitude, I owned one for about a year, lol...

PXL_20201016_133725750.thumb.jpg.dc8c1b565f982cb1592b013e3de2b71e.jpg

 

You had a Fleetwood Southwind if I remember correctly.  My brother in law had a Fleetwood Storm I drove it and it was a white knuckle adventure if the wind got to 15mph.   My Jayco has always driven nice.  Don't get me wrong when big wind gust get going it will get pushed around.  

My friend will be purchasing a Magnitude before the end of the year.  Hopefully he will get and take it out to Glamis. 

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21 minutes ago, Sand Shark said:

You had a Fleetwood Southwind if I remember correctly.  My brother in law had a Fleetwood Storm I drove it and it was a white knuckle adventure if the wind got to 15mph.   My Jayco has always driven nice.  Don't get me wrong when big wind gust get going it will get pushed around.  

My friend will be purchasing a Magnitude before the end of the year.  Hopefully he will get and take it out to Glamis. 

Right, but they're all on the same Ford F53 platform, unless you had a rare Workhorse.  Either way, glad you've had a better experience... but definitely demand an extended test drive before you buy another.  You'll really like the Magnitude.  It drove very, very nice.  Super comfortable.  Quiet.  Plenty of power with that 24' enclosed and 2 SxSs plus tools/spares/fuel/etc.  It had some Thor quality issues, but I'd def consider another.  I miss the outdoor kitchen. 

 

-TJ

 

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3 hours ago, tjZ06 said:

  I'm thinking something like 18-24mo from now used RVs are going to be "on sale." 

 

-TJ

I thought 15 months ago it would be by now...not seeing it yet.

I have seen lots of posts from people that bought a unit to rent stating "that's the only way I could afford it"

Uh, chances are that's not going to work well for you long term buddy...lol

 

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4 minutes ago, luvdunin said:

I thought 15 months ago it would be by now...not seeing it yet.

I have seen lots of posts from people that bought a unit to rent stating "that's the only way I could afford it"

Uh, chances are that's not going to work well for you long term buddy...lol

 

I think a lot of these financial geniuses are buying and getting a OK deal 10-20% of list then they expect to drive it home put it on every buy and sell forum, list it for 20% over list then make the next genius feel like he is getting a great deal for 10% over after negotiation. 

 

 I see it more in the SxS market $25K car + $10K in dealer add on's = Car listed at $45K, selling at $40K and they think they got a deal.   

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Let's not forget, those that bought during the HIGHER prices hoping to sell in a year or two. Well if the market tanks, so will the ACV Actual Cash Value of said RV. Unless your have the title to said RV, most likely will owe more than the value, keep in mind this would be in a down market. 

For the person waiting until said market drops to have an influx of gently used , not maintained units. Good luck, if the sellers that want out owe let's say $20K more than it's value, who's going to pay the negative? Either the buyer or the seller. It won't be all peaches and cream when the market drops. Sure there will be some deals out there but not many compared to the people that want them. 

I'll say it again, price is all relative . You either buy it cash or finance it, it doesn't change the value. People don't buy RV's for the RV itself, they buy RV's for what the RV can do for them. It is a lifestyle that many enjoy. 

When people say they can't afford it, well in the RV Finance world, I guaranty the financial banks that loan on RV's won't give you a loan unless you can afford it. Toughest loan in the world. Highest Risk = House on wheels that depreciates at lightning speed and tough to repo. 

Peace out ✌️

Any questions, comments or concerns? If so take it up with Chummin or MWB. 🤣

Edited by HEADINJURY
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13 minutes ago, MWB said:

I think a lot of these financial geniuses are buying and getting a OK deal 10-20% of list then they expect to drive it home put it on every buy and sell forum, list it for 20% over list then make the next genius feel like he is getting a great deal for 10% over after negotiation. 

 

 I see it more in the SxS market $25K car + $10K in dealer add on's = Car listed at $45K, selling at $40K and they think they got a deal.   

HAHA I wouldn't doubt that for a second. I see it a lot lately. 

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