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dirtbikeguy2003

Illegal Gas Cans

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I've only been in there (ORBS) once, looking for the barbed/threaded end to attach the hose to my illegal container oddly enough. An older gentlemen helped me at first, didnt find anything so he grabbed a kid to help me out. He stated they were out of them and told me where to go; a farm supply shop across the street :)

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Don't need a book with me to write a ticket, be carefull how far you push that one.

Question for you (or any LEO, for that matter): is it a requirement to list the specific code section being violated when you write a citation? It's been a while since I've gotten a ticket, but IIRC there has always been a section of the VC (or whatever) listed.

Tigajoe, I'm not saying the law isn't on the books. What I AM saying is I can't find any reference to it, anywhere. I searched CHP, CARB, BLM, ICSO, state Fire Marshall, State Health and Safety Code, and wherever else Google would take me. I posted what I did find, which was the relevant sections making it illegal to SELL the jugs, as well as several references saying that POSSESSING the jugs was not against the law. And if I'm going to get cited, it's either going to be when I'm filling the jugs or filling the buggy, because otherwise mine stay locked up in my enclosed trailer.

If someone has gotten cited for this, please post up. But so far all I've heard is third-person hearsay.

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I bought the new gas cans, the 5 gal. red ones at walmart, and cut the stupid spout, smoothed the ridges out and clamped a hose onto it.Now it pours like a "utility jug" so, and has the approved stamp.

Every day that goes by my patience with California shrinks and Arizona is sounding very tempting.

NO NO NO! We are full. No offense but the major problem with you Californians is that we have far too many of you here already. Arizona used to be a much different place from CA but as you all move here you bring your politics with you. We are already too much like you and getting worse everyday. :moof: Please consider Nevada or something. lol

AAAAAAMEN, no truer words have been spoken.

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I bought the new gas cans, the 5 gal. red ones at walmart, and cut the stupid spout, smoothed the ridges out and clamped a hose onto it.Now it pours like a "utility jug" so, and has the approved stamp.

Every day that goes by my patience with California shrinks and Arizona is sounding very tempting.

NO NO NO! We are full. No offense but the major problem with you Californians is that we have far too many of you here already. Arizona used to be a much different place from CA but as you all move here you bring your politics with you. We are already too much like you and getting worse everyday. :moof: Please consider Nevada or something. lol

AAAAAAMEN, no truer words have been spoken.

I've got a better idea! How 'bout everyone go back to the state they were born in and let us native Californians live in peace? :sha:

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Don't need a book with me to write a ticket, be carefull how far you push that one.

Question for you (or any LEO, for that matter): is it a requirement to list the specific code section being violated when you write a citation? It's been a while since I've gotten a ticket, but IIRC there has always been a section of the VC (or whatever) listed.

The last time I got a ticket (happened to be BLM) the code was pretty generic. It was "Environmental damage" , or something like that, and probably had 20 different examples of infractions. FWIW, I fought it and the ticket was dropped.

They'll most likely make up some s*it, take your jugs, and leave it up to you and the judge to sort things out..

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Don't need a book with me to write a ticket, be carefull how far you push that one.

Question for you (or any LEO, for that matter): is it a requirement to list the specific code section being violated when you write a citation? It's been a while since I've gotten a ticket, but IIRC there has always been a section of the VC (or whatever) listed.

Tigajoe, I'm not saying the law isn't on the books. What I AM saying is I can't find any reference to it, anywhere. I searched CHP, CARB, BLM, ICSO, state Fire Marshall, State Health and Safety Code, and wherever else Google would take me. I posted what I did find, which was the relevant sections making it illegal to SELL the jugs, as well as several references saying that POSSESSING the jugs was not against the law. And if I'm going to get cited, it's either going to be when I'm filling the jugs or filling the buggy, because otherwise mine stay locked up in my enclosed trailer.

If someone has gotten cited for this, please post up. But so far all I've heard is third-person hearsay.

I can answer that for me,,, In 20 years of LE, every ticket I have written has had a specific code on it and a brief written description. I haven't seen the code that the Sheriff's or the Rangers are using.

From my experience there should be a reference code # along with the specific code it is from (vc = vechicle code, hs = health safety,,,you get the picture)

Is there anyone here that has received a ticket? If so, what was the violation listed on it?

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sorry for your disbelief. Post a notice when you get popped. It's not like we all want this. I am Posting from personal experiance. My point was more a heads up and won't argue it. I think it's a stupid law as I have around 10 of the old style white ones, used them for seadoo's,for my boat and motorcycles since sometime after I graduated in 1975. I would have known nothing of the law if the Chaparal guy hadn't said Oh by the way. He didn't mention the nozel to me he just said it had to be marked "for gasoline use only".

call whatever you want it don't change a thing.

Nobody's arguing with you, we believe you.

It's just that they're trying to find this BS law the BLM is citing, that's all.

If a Ranger or ICSO tries to cite me out there, he'd better have his code book with him to show me the law that I'm breaking. I will question it.

I PRINTED OUT THE QUOTED TEXT FROM CARB HAND THAT TOO EM AND TELL ME WHAT CODE IM BREAKING

sorry for your disbelief. Post a notice when you get popped. It's not like we all want this. I am Posting from personal experiance. My point was more a heads up and won't argue it. I think it's a stupid law as I have around 10 of the old style white ones, used them for seadoo's,for my boat and motorcycles since sometime after I graduated in 1975. I would have known nothing of the law if the Chaparal guy hadn't said Oh by the way. He didn't mention the nozel to me he just said it had to be marked "for gasoline use only".

call whatever you want it don't change a thing.

Nobody's arguing with you, we believe you.

It's just that they're trying to find this BS law the BLM is citing, that's all.

If a Ranger or ICSO tries to cite me out there, he'd better have his code book with him to show me the law that I'm breaking. I will question it.

Wouldn't push that one to far, You might get a ride into ElCentro and a 24 hour free stay and a Taxi ride back to the dunes

How is he writing up the citation? From memory?

I doubt it.

Calling all LEOs, calling all LEOs:

So what is the proper way to dispute something like this? Normally you would wait for the judge right? But if they are taking the cans, its not like they will bring them to court for the judge to look at or hand back.

Can you ask ( demand?) a supervisor or another agency?

Sorry, forgot this part, you can ask for a supervisor, if one is available they should respond. Another agency? No, not likely.

I can't answer for the Rangers or Sheriff because I don't know their policy, if you were in HB and asked for a supervisor, you would get one.

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I can answer that for me,,, In 20 years of LE, every ticket I have written has had a specific code on it and a brief written description. I haven't seen the code that the Sheriff's or the Rangers are using.

Well crud...looks like BLM has changed around their website and broke the link in my signature.

I'll go fix that...but here's a new link to BLM's all time favorite cite:

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title43/43-2....09.6.201.9.html

Almost every question I've asked of the BLM has come down to that as their reply.

What's interesting to note is that there are a LOT of things that have been published in the federal register (and apparently in a local newspaper though I've never seen them.) but which are NOT listed on the BLM's rules and regulations page.

One example that comes immediately to mind is the "primary vehicle" issue when determining who needs to buy a pass.

So if there is a BLM rule the place to look isn't the BLM...it's the Federal Register. If the BLM does claim to have a rule then in my experience they won't actually give you the rule they'll just say "43 C.F.R. § 8365.1-6" as their answer...if really pressed, repeatedly, and they're in a good mood you may luck out and get a pointer to when something was published in the Federal Register. My guess as to why they don't just send you directly to the rule as published....because most of the time (in my experience) the rule doesn't say quite what the BLM implies it says.

So for a 100% answer first step would be to contact Neil Hamada and ask "Does the BLM have a supplementary rule in the dunes about non-CARB compliant gas cans?" If he says yes "43 C.F.R. § 8365.1-6" then before you get off the line with him add in "when was that published in the Federal Register" so the rest of us can actually find the real text of the rule.

Or ... you can just take the rumors and 2nd/3rd/4th hand claims as gospel and go with that.

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I have six Jaz Jugs of which four of them state that they are not to be sold or used in California. They were manufactured after Jan 2001. I found a link to the following which talks about the rule being adopted as of Jan 2001.

Clicky

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Whoever designed the "new, safe, eco gas cans" has probably never used one. It is almost impossible to NOT spill gas. Last time I used one, I had to phsically pull down the spout and the pressure inside the can sprayed gas all over me.

I'll continue with my good gas cans. If the time comes where I HAVE to get the shit cans, I will most certainly modify them to work properly.

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California has some goofy freaking laws.......makes in glad I live in Arizona!!!!

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California has some goofy freaking laws.......makes in glad I live in Arizona!!!!

I'm glad you are there too! :sha:

See you at the beach....oh, wait...YOU DON"T HAVE ONE! :ck:

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yup I got the old jugs from scribner plastics, those new jugs are $45 ea :shocker:

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5 gal. C.A.R.B. compliant gas cans on line for $14.40 @ Mc Master Carr.

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good catch, found them

here is the part #

4224T84

Polyethylene Fuel Can Spill-Proof, for Gasoline, 5 Gallon Capacity, Red

In stock at $14.40 Each

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California has some goofy freaking laws.......makes in glad I live in Arizona!!!!

I'm glad you are there too! :sha:

See you at the beach....oh, wait...YOU DON"T HAVE ONE! :ck:

You're right, but we have a big hole in the ground. If we could just redirect the river that cut it a little further west, The DUNES would be in AZ. :rotf:

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We were out this weekend, I had my old illegal gas cans and my buddy had the new improved legal cans. We were laughing our a@@es of at him spilling gas and cussing these cans. We call them the dribblers. He gave up and poured his gas in my cans. Stupid law.

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To: Retail Outlets, Distributors, and

Manufacturers of Utility Jugs

Number 342 December 2005

Clarified Requirements for Utility Jugs

On September 15, 2005, the California Air Resources Board adopted amendments to the

Portable Fuel Containers and Spouts Regulation (California Code of Regulations , Title 13,

Division 3, Chapter 9, Article 6, Section 2467 et. seq.) The amended regulation prohibits the

sale of non-compliant utility jugs for storing and dispensing motor vehicle fuels and kerosene.

Surveys conducted in 2004 indicated that 1,400,000 utility jugs were inappropriately being used

by consumers to store or transfer gasoline or diesel fuel.

A typical “Utility Jug” can be generally described as a two and a half or a five-gallon container

made of high density polyethylene (HDPE) which can be molded into various colors. A “Utility

Jug” can be square or round in shape, with a single, wide-mouth opening on the top of the

container. This wide-mouth opening is threaded with a screw cap which is also made of HDPE.

Located at the center of the screw cap is a smaller, threaded opening with a HDPE plug. This

plug is often removed and replaced with a threaded coupling and an open-ended tube which is

used for dispensing the contents of the jug. These containers can have one or more handles. A

“Utility Jug” is filled by removing the wide-mouth screw cap.

“Utility Jugs” are usually not labeled or embossed with the intended purpose or use for the jug.

Prior to 2001, “Utility Jugs” were sold or advertised for use with motor vehicle fuels. Since that

time, several manufacturers have attempted to limit the sale or advertisement for non-fuel uses

within California while advertising that they can be used for fuel in other states. The changes to

the regulation add language that specifically prohibits this activity.

These utility jugs have been subject to the Portable Fuel Containers and Spouts Regulation

since 2001. A “Portable Fuel Container” means any container or vessel with a nominal capacity

of ten gallons or less intended for reuse that is designed, used, sold, advertised, or offered for

sale for receiving, transporting, storing, and dispensing fuel or kerosene under the clarified

regulations . Portable fuel containers do not include containers or vessels permanently

embossed or permanently labeled, as defined in 49 Code of Federal Regulation Section

172.407, with language indicating said containers or vessels are solely intended for use with

non-fuel or non-kerosene products. In other words, the label must state the intended purpose or

use on the container. It is not acceptable for the label or container to say not intended for

gasoline or other flammable liquids.

Effective 30 days after this amendment is filed with the Secretary of State’s office, any person

who sells, supplies, offers for sale, advertises, or manufactures for sale in California utility jugs

wi ll be subject to the revised regulation. Only utility jugs that are labeled as a “Spill -Proof

System” that comply with all of the performance standards and administrative requirements can

be offered for sale as a portable fuel container or used with gasoline in California after that date.

For more specific information, the regulation can be obtained at the web site:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/pfc/reg/reg.htm. We anticipate that this approval will occur prior to February 1,

2006.

Any manufacturer selling, or offering for sale in the State of California a non-complying utility jug

in any color after that date will be subject to an enforcement action including the assessment of

penalties to the extent permissible under Part 5, Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code.

Distributors or retailers that are found selling non-complying utility jugs after the date of the

approved regulation may be subject to similar enforcement actions.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory, please contact Steven Giorgi, Manager,

Consumer Products Enforcement Section at (916) 322-6965. Written inquiries may be

addressed to:

Steven Giorgi, Manager

Consumer Products Enforcement Section

California Air Resources Board

P.O. Box 2815, Sacramento, CA 95812

E-mail Address: sgiorgi@arb.ca.gov

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On this page undefined it shows a link to the page of fuel containers that can be used titled "PFCs Certified For Use In California". I guess you are not allowed to use any other containers than these? I wonder what the ruling is for the 5 gallon steel cans that you can buy race gas in. Are these steel cans sold in CA or can you only buy it in a 55 gal drum?

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Nothing in those links points to the use of non certified containers.. It says this is whats certified and what can only be sold AS PFC's.. it doesnt say anything about using other containers for pourin gas.

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Nothing in those links points to the use of non certified containers.. It says this is whats certified and what can only be sold AS PFC's.. it doesnt say anything about using other containers for pourin gas.

If you read the Title in this page C.A.R.B. it says "PFCs Certified For Use In California NEW!"

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And the first 2 sentences from that page.

As of July 1, 2007, all PFCs sold in California must be certified by the Air Resources Board as meeting low-emission standards and regulatory requirements. The following table provides a listing of those containers certified for sale.

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I was only posting what I saw on that site. It looks to me that it is vague enough to find a loop hole and give you a ticket. I have seen the LEO's write all sorts of tickets that can be fought in court and probably dropped, but most people from Arizona are not going to drive to Ca to court to fight it, so they just pay the fines. That is what the CA LEOs "bank" on (word used in both meanings). I guess if you are close enough to fight it in court use your "utility jugs" and take the chance. IMHO I think it would be a lot cheaper just get some compliant fuel containers than to pay an expensive ticket. Plus I can still use my "utility jugs" in AZ and probably the 48 other states.

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talked to my friend who is a deputy on the ICSO off road enforcement team. he didn't even know they make cans other then our regular gas cans. he said it must be a BLM issue because no one has said anything about illegal cans to him. crap, hope i didnt just give him another reason to give people tickets :lol:

He's been one of my best friends since high school, he's an awesome person, and would never disrespect anyone ESPECIALLY while on duty. he takes his job VERY seriously. we used to do alot of dumb illegal crap when we were young out at superstition...still cant believe hes an LEO now... :lol:

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