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Mid board Conversion thoughts?


Hybridtoys
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Wow feels like forever since Ive posted.. Way before the Glamis site crash anyway. Reguardless glad to be back 🖖~! I need some advice on converting to 930 mid boards and if they are worth it with only 300-ish HP

I have searched but not found much I wasnt sure if the entire site history is gone and we fully started over or if I suck at searching the threads so forgive me if theres a ton of other threads. I have a old (1996) long travel, Northstar powered, rail with a 2D. I am about 75% happy with what I have. The lacking 25% is mostly just because I have had some faint CV clicking on one side for quite some time. I have swapped to new 930's with fancy cages with race prepping. I have adjusted my limiting straps but still clicks. It's not the end of the world but Id like to fix it.

Last trip I was mid side hill wanting to wheely around a big bowl but just before I was able to set up I broke a stub axle, unfortuantly I was mid hill and couldnt get stopped all that fast. A bit of carnage folllowed as I came to a stop and slid down the dune side ways, luckily it broke on the up hill side. Once I got it stopped and back around to the other side I saw it bent the caliper, caliper bracket, and rotor. I was lucky to have an Ex-Gril friend who was cool enought to spend 2 hours winching me up the bowl and towing my now 3 wheel, FAT A$$ back to the trailer. Ruff day to say the least, getting it on the trailer I had to pull a flinstones and roll it along on a wood round we hadent split yet.

All total its looking like about 800 for the repairs, plus peripherals. I was going to fix it but thought... If I break it again then its also going to be another 800. I was thinking of going with another Tatum kit but its 2,700$ plus axles around 600$. I'm just wondering is a midboard worth the money. When I bought my rail, the Dyno was only 300HP, since I have made a few improvments but its still around that. Also, I'm not sure my trailing arms could be modified to accept the larger bore, so add that or minimum fabbing ontop of the total.

Is a 3500 or 4k bill worth the Axtra CV angle plus if I break an axle simply towing back to camp rather than dragging it to the trailer. I've had it 9 seasons on the same axle and for the most part drive pretty chill. Only this last trip I was showing off a bit, really using my turning brakes. 

Also, do you think it is an old wifes tale, using the turning brakes will break axles with that much HP? I know it's hard on the trans and I get why but but that doesnt seem like its all that much HP. Its an only and (EMPI 16-2306 VW CONVERSION STUB AXLE FOR IRS BUG / GHIA TO 930 CV JOINT)

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Toss in the 33 spline stubs and corresponding unit bearings and you should be fine. I know a lot of guys running 500 plus horsepower on them. 

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1 minute ago, Jtmoney714 said:

Toss in the 33 spline stubs and corresponding unit bearings and you should be fine. I know a lot of guys running 500 plus horsepower on them. 

Actually looks like you have type 1 or 2 long stubs. You are gonna need to measure the hole on the trailing arm to see if the micro stub would fit. If not then some fab work is going to need to be done. And at that point you can decide between midboards or micro stubs. 

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Is this one of those situations where carrying a spare stub shaft (or having it at the trailer) to fix in the dunes and tow a roller home would be the better solution than $4k in midboards?? 

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6 hours ago, honEXduner said:

Is this one of those situations where carrying a spare stub shaft (or having it at the trailer) to fix in the dunes and tow a roller home would be the better solution than $4k in midboards?? 

When you lose a stub it takes everything out with it, brakes etc.    I have experienced 2 broken stub axles and 1 was the longest night of my life.   Deep in Gordon Wells getting the machine out was a nightmare.   

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3 minutes ago, rampster said:

When you lose a stub it takes everything out with it, brakes etc.    I have experienced 2 broken stub axles and 1 was the longest night of my life.   Deep in Gordon Wells getting the machine out was a nightmare.   

A spare stub an unit bearing make it so you can at least get rolling. 

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You have what looks like type 1.  I would just upgrade to 33 Micro stub setup and then keep a spare in the trailer. My brother had your setup with the northstar and he broke 3 stub axles before upgrading to micro stubs.  That fixed it.  They always seemed to break in the worst spots also.  Made for 2 long nights.

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33 spline micro stub would be you lest expensive choice but go with a bearing hub that is serviceable. The non serviceable type like Pro Am and some others use are impossible to find should you need to replace one.

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57 minutes ago, Jtmoney714 said:

A spare stub an unit bearing make it so you can at least get rolling. 

True and in one of my events we were able to source a stub axle that fit but had a wrong flange (so we couldn't connect the axle).     Sure it could roll but getting over some of those dunes was quite the adventure.  🙂 

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Our Super stub kit is a direct bolt in replacement stub made out of heat treated alloy steel about 30% larger in diameter than a type 1 stub. It is a very popular option for people in your situation. It keeps the existing drive axles so you wouldn't need new axles but it wouldn't help your cv angle problem. Our micro stub kit would be a direct bolt in replacement that pushes the cv out.

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Many years ago I broke a stub axle in my sand limo. Same deal I put in the gear one super stubs. Just remember the bearing gets smaller when you go to that larger stub. I never had an issue with mine after fixing it both sides

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Just one guys opinion here. I would suggest a Micro-Stub set up with a manufactured bearing assembly as the safest and most cost effective. The type 1 stub axle holds everything together so if you break the stub axle you lose everything including the wheel and brakes. There are some micro-stub setups with serviceable bearings that use the stub axle the same way the type 1 was used to hold it all together and if the stub axle breaks everything comes apart. The manufactured bearing assemblies used on most micro-stub kits (which are apparently in short supply at the moment) are good because the hub assembly (including the brake rotor) bolts to the bearing and the axle is used only to drive the hub and not hold the whole assembly together. If you break a stub with that setup you just need a tow strap cause the car will still roll. As far as your mid board question, They are awesome but they are expensive and more work. Like the captured bearing micro-stubs, the hub is independent of the axle. You would also improve your axle angles with the mid boards because your pivot point is further outboard. 

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6 hours ago, rampster said:

When you lose a stub it takes everything out with it, brakes etc.    I have experienced 2 broken stub axles and 1 was the longest night of my life.   Deep in Gordon Wells getting the machine out was a nightmare.   

This sounds like my night~! I felt like I hade been in a prize fight the next day 😵. My adrenalin was running the whole time. Plus hooking up the winch cable 100 times up and down the dunes. I did have some help from some cool on lookers (most on rental quads or SXS), we sunk the truck a few times and they helped dig it out ect. I was SUPER surprised her Heavy Chevy was so under powered. My Expedition goes pretty well out there with 8ish +/- psi. She was aired down but just didnt have the power to get up the hill. 

Yes, I probably would have just slid a back up axle in just so it would roll rather than drag (if I had one), and I plan on having and extra in the trailer from now on. The other thing is I was alone that time and she was also... I really hate leaving my rail out there alone. In retrospec im sure it would have been fine, but I also didnt think it would take hours to get out.

Sounds like it may be a less expensive fix for now. Just picking up the driver side and attempt to straghten every thing for back ups incase it ever breaks again. I really dont like the outer race and hub seal housing, it seems pretty cheap and I had to peen the housing to get the seal to stay. I will have to also order the outer section for both sides while im working on it if I keep it. 

Although, I like the Beef of those GearOne 33's 🧐 sounds like it's a good happy medium, I rarely hang it out but I would like the option to play with the twin turbo guys when my testosterone gets the better of me 😋. Wonder if those Kits are in stock? I didnt couldnt get the website to pull up a picture of the kit? It would be nice to see what it includes. 

Thanks all~! I really appreciate the help. 

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6 hours ago, parker@gearone said:

Our Super stub kit is a direct bolt in replacement stub made out of heat treated alloy steel about 30% larger in diameter than a type 1 stub. It is a very popular option for people in your situation. It keeps the existing drive axles so you wouldn't need new axles but it wouldn't help your cv angle problem. Our micro stub kit would be a direct bolt in replacement that pushes the cv out.

 

 

Do you guys happen to have some pics of the parts and availability? I'll PM you aswell 🤘

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8 minutes ago, Hybridtoys said:

This sounds like my night~! I felt like I hade been in a prize fight the next day 😵. My adrenalin was running the whole time. Plus hooking up the winch cable 100 times up and down the dunes. I did have some help from some cool on lookers (most on rental quads or SXS), we sunk the truck a few times and they helped dig it out ect. I was SUPER surprised her Heavy Chevy was so under powered. My Expedition goes pretty well out there with 8ish +/- psi. She was aired down but just didnt have the power to get up the hill. 

Yes, I probably would have just slid a back up axle in just so it would roll rather than drag (if I had one), and I plan on having and extra in the trailer from now on. The other thing is I was alone that time and she was also... I really hate leaving my rail out there alone. In retrospec im sure it would have been fine, but I also didnt think it would take hours to get out.

Sounds like it may be a less expensive fix for now. Just picking up the driver side and attempt to straghten every thing for back ups incase it ever breaks again. I really dont like the outer race and hub seal housing, it seems pretty cheap and I had to peen the housing to get the seal to stay. I will have to also order the outer section for both sides while im working on it if I keep it. 

Although, I like the Beef of those GearOne 33's 🧐 sounds like it's a good happy medium, I rarely hang it out but I would like the option to play with the twin turbo guys when my testosterone gets the better of me 😋. Wonder if those Kits are in stock? I didnt couldnt get the website to pull up a picture of the kit? It would be nice to see what it includes. 

Thanks all~! I really appreciate the help. 

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Parker gave you the EASY button.  I would go that route.  Seems like a no brainer.

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28 minutes ago, Hybridtoys said:

Do you guys happen to have some pics of the parts and availability? I'll PM you aswell 🤘

Replied with pictures. 

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Went through this a couple cars ago. Ended up welding on the plate for microstubs and upgrading. Found a used set on here for $400 and ordered new axels for $300. All in was under $1000 for the upgrade

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15 hours ago, rampster said:

When you lose a stub it takes everything out with it, brakes etc.    I have experienced 2 broken stub axles and 1 was the longest night of my life.   Deep in Gordon Wells getting the machine out was a nightmare.   

I understand most of the external stuff breaks off, but is it a situation where you could put a new stub in and bolt the hub back on to make it a 4 wheel roller vs a 3 wheel roller? Sure, you wouldn't have brakes or an axle on that corner but it beats dragging.  

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11 hours ago, honEXduner said:

I understand most of the external stuff breaks off, but is it a situation where you could put a new stub in and bolt the hub back on to make it a 4 wheel roller vs a 3 wheel roller? Sure, you wouldn't have brakes or an axle on that corner but it beats dragging.  

Sure beats dragging but have you tried to get a full size sand car out of the Deep soft dunes?   Even with 4 rolling tires it sucks.

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On 10/11/2021 at 12:22 PM, Mike E said:

Just one guys opinion here. I would suggest a Micro-Stub set up with a manufactured bearing assembly as the safest and most cost effective. The type 1 stub axle holds everything together so if you break the stub axle you lose everything including the wheel and brakes. There are some micro-stub setups with serviceable bearings that use the stub axle the same way the type 1 was used to hold it all together and if the stub axle breaks everything comes apart. The manufactured bearing assemblies used on most micro-stub kits (which are apparently in short supply at the moment) are good because the hub assembly (including the brake rotor) bolts to the bearing and the axle is used only to drive the hub and not hold the whole assembly together. If you break a stub with that setup you just need a tow strap cause the car will still roll. As far as your mid board question, They are awesome but they are expensive and more work. Like the captured bearing micro-stubs, the hub is independent of the axle. You would also improve your axle angles with the mid boards because your pivot point is further outboard. 

The stub axle is critical to the hub bearing. If you run a manufactured bearing with out the stub axle properly torqued the bearing hub will be destroyed very quickly. The stub axle does in fact hold it all together. I had a friend snap a stub axle on his car at China Wall. He thought it was a blown trans because the stub axle stayed in the bearing hub as it snapped right at the splines. Luckily a jeep guy towed him out to the washes. About a 1000 yards from wash road, the bearing hub came apart. The wheel came off, snapping off the brake caliper. 

When the bearing craps out everything might stay attached but your brake caliper rotor and whatever your tire rubs on gets messed up. I've had that happen twice.

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On 10/12/2021 at 9:39 AM, rampster said:

Sure beats dragging but have you tried to get a full size sand car out of the Deep soft dunes?   Even with 4 rolling tires it sucks.

Yep, been there done that- friend spun bearings in his engine midway between Olds and the Flagpole years ago - took about 5 hours with only a RZR1000 to drag him back to Gecko. 

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The midboards are a pain and overpriced unless you really need them, most do not need more travel just better shocks or better shock tuning, when the superstubs break or the bearing breaks you are in the same situation,   the best rout is the Midboard hub,  I will never be a fan of 930-CV on a 2d,  if you do a Microstub with a 934 you will never brake a CV or never brake a Axle, 

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