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Subaru timing belt slipped


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32 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

There are two sets of marks on a subaru. Lines or arrows. If you put the arrow in the crank pulley at 12 o’clock then the 4 arrows in the cam gears will also be at 12 o’clock. We use the arrows when checking a car that comes in not running because they are at 12 o’clock when cylinder 1 & 2 are at tdc and we can test ghat with a long screwdriver in the spark plug hole. We use the lines when putting in a belt as that is safer (in this position all 4 pistons are 1/2 way down their holes)

I guess I’m not following. Are you saying that everything is lined up and it’s not the timing that’s causing the no start issue? Ran fine all week, pulled in to camp and parked  then just  doesn’t want to start for next ride  tried starting fluid  nothing  did notice a crack at weld on exhaust pipe where gas was dripping out when one of the cylinders with wet plugs  

2.0 turbo

any recommendations on where to start looking?

 

thanks as always!

Edited by Jammer75
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You understand correctly. The belt is on correctly. Best guess is electric or ecu. What brand do you have?

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6 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

You understand correctly. The belt is on correctly. Best guess is electric or ecu. What brand do you have?

Thanks. So earlier in the week, came back from ride. Next morning no cranking. Not sure what but guy came over wiggled trigger wire on imi  starter and it started. 
was fine. Went on ride. First stop. No start but heard relay triggering/vibrating. Not where I could get hands on it to feel.  Waited a few minutes, started up no problem all through all the next stops of the ride. Forward to next ride, cranks sounds like it wants to fire on first revolution the. Just dry cranking. Get home in the garage. Not trying to start it fan comes on immediately now…??

ecu is a link lemv5

relays??

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Relays triggering/vibrating is not good and is sign of a ground not being grounded. Ecu can get hurt. Typically there is one or two ground wires from ecu that are probably landed on the block somewhere. Look for a broken eyelet or loose bolt

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3 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

Relays triggering/vibrating is not good and is sign of a ground not being grounded. Ecu can get hurt. Typically there is one or two ground wires from ecu that are probably landed on the block somewhere. Look for a broken eyelet or loose bolt

That’s my project for tomorrow.  Thank you sir!

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29 minutes ago, Jammer75 said:

That’s my project for tomorrow.  Thank you sir!

when the friend jiggled the wires at the starter he may have moved the wire harness and a ground was giggled in the process??  good luck

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This is from a Link ECM, note the circled pins.  This car was @John@Outfront Shop a couple of weeks ago, and had very similar symptoms.

 

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Edited by HTElectrical
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8 hours ago, HTElectrical said:

This is from a Link ECM, note the circled pins.  This car was @John@Outfront Shop a couple of weeks ago, and had very similar symptoms.

 

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Thanks. I do have a receipt from previous owner that he had to send in the ecu for soldering (10years ago) I will definitely check that as well!

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3 hours ago, Jammer75 said:

Thanks. I do have a receipt from previous owner that he had to send in the ecu for soldering (10years ago) I will definitely check that as well!

 

12 hours ago, HTElectrical said:

This is from a Link ECM, note the circled pins.  This car was @John@Outfront Shop a couple of weeks ago, and had very similar symptoms.

 

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Here’s a couple pics of ecu. Everything looks good to me. Unless you see something I’ll move on to wiring/grounds/(relays(old and crusty looking)

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Do you have any contact cleaner?  Can you clean the 9 solder joints thoroughly to see if there are any voids similar to what I posted?

271F980C-212A-4F88-987E-1E76A5C7926B.thumb.jpeg.c5a3293da0a583a30867852b56637cb6.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, HTElectrical said:

Do you have any contact cleaner?  Can you clean the 9 solder joints thoroughly to see if there are any voids similar to what I posted?

271F980C-212A-4F88-987E-1E76A5C7926B.thumb.jpeg.c5a3293da0a583a30867852b56637cb6.jpeg

Im Going to go get some right now. Thanks

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I would also thoroughly check the pins on the connector that plugs into the ECM, especially at the crimped part of the pins, and also check that none of the wires are broken internally (inside the insulation) You can check this by carefully holding the wire with needle nose pliers and pulling on the wire to see if it stretches.  If it does the internal conductor is compromised and needs to be repaired.

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1 hour ago, HTElectrical said:

I would also thoroughly check the pins on the connector that plugs into the ECM, especially at the crimped part of the pins, and also check that none of the wires are broken internally (inside the insulation) You can check this by carefully holding the wire with needle nose pliers and pulling on the wire to see if it stretches.  If it does the internal conductor is compromised and needs to be repaired.

Ecu. Cleaned with soft brush and contact cleaner. See pic. Checked continuity through solder joint and plug on ecu. Checked continuity on male plug and all connections. Replaced relays(needed it regardless). Getting exact same results. I think the tell tale is the fan comes on immediately. I will start checking wires although unless I see something obvious I’m in the dark. 
@John@outfront said to. check the two main ground wires from ecu. I’ll check schematic and see what I can find. 

I did clean the magnetic crap off both cam/crank sensors and no improvement. Not sure how to test them past that. 
 

appreciate everyone’s help. 

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Edited by Jammer75
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1 hour ago, HTElectrical said:

Also read this post and the following is the complete thread.

 

BJ_buggyfab

Need help with a Subaru motor

I will try this as it’s quick to do although with the fan coming on immediately when keyed on tells me something electrical is going on and I don’t have the alternator hooked up so can’t be that. 

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How are your fans triggered to turn on are you using a temperature sensor on the Block then activates a relay to turn them on?

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14 minutes ago, HTElectrical said:

How are your fans triggered to turn on are you using a temperature sensor on the Block then activates a relay to turn them on?

Yes. I believe that when temp sensor on block hits 180° The ecu then would trigger the fan relay for the fan to come on (normally that was when the fan kicked on).  The fan comes on immediately when keyed and the gauge is all the way cold…

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Check your temperature sending unit, and see if it is currently closed.  If it isn't then check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

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13 minutes ago, HTElectrical said:

Check your temperature sending unit, and see if it is currently closed.  If it isn't then check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

The ecu temp sensor is a thermistor so it’s never open or. Closed. It’s simply a different resistance. The ecu is programmed then to turn fan on at any temp. 

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That is correct.  John, do you know what the value is at 180 degrees?  How many ohms?

You can do this step first, and if you get continuity to Gnd  then you know the problem is the ECM.

Check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

7 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

The ecu temp sensor is a thermistor so it’s never open or. Closed. It’s simply a different resistance. The ecu is programmed then to turn fan on at any temp. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, HTElectrical said:

That is correct.  John, do you know what the value is at 180 degrees?  How many ohms?

You can do this step first, and if you get continuity to Gnd  then you know the problem is the ECM.


Check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

 

 

 

 

I have (see pic)multi meter. I put one probe into fan pin and then other probe onto a constant 12v source— I can go fan pin to + on battery(ecu plugged in)? Or ignition on and to a 12v source?

 

thanks thanks

image.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Jammer75 said:

I have (see pic)multi meter. I put one probe into fan pin and then other probe onto a constant 12v source— I can go fan pin to + on battery(ecu plugged in)? Or ignition on and to a 12v source?

 

thanks thanks

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That above doesn’t make sense to me. The coolant sensor has a common signal ground to it. Same as each cam and crank sensor as well as the tps. Then goes through the coolant sensor and returns a value to ecu in s dedicated coolant temp wire. This wire should be checked for being open or shorted to ground   This test should be done with ecu disconnected 

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To troubleshoot the fan being constantly on, if the ecm is powered up, and no signal to E. Temp pin (this will eliminate the possibility of the engine temp sensor being bad) then under normal operation there should be no continuity between Fan Pin and Sig Gnd correct John?

Or 0 volts reading between Fan Pin and 12v.  Correct John?

 

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Edited by HTElectrical
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