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Subaru timing belt slipped


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typically if e-temp connector was pulled off the sensor so there was no signal getting to the e-temp wire the temp would go full cold and choke would be on.  if the e-temp wire was grounded it would turn on the fan as it would think motor is full hot

the e-temp wire cannot be tested to the fan output wire like you are suggesting.  simply when the e-temp wire sees a particular resistance (this value is programmed by the tuner) then it applies a ground at the fan output wire that in turn turns on the fan relay

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13 hours ago, John@Outfront said:

typically if e-temp connector was pulled off the sensor so there was no signal getting to the e-temp wire the temp would go full cold and choke would be on.  if the e-temp wire was grounded it would turn on the fan as it would think motor is full hot

the e-temp wire cannot be tested to the fan output wire like you are suggesting.  simply when the e-temp wire sees a particular resistance (this value is programmed by the tuner) then it applies a ground at the fan output wire that in turn turns on the fan relay

John- I'm still unraveling the rats nest that is my wiring to check the 2 ground wires from ecu to block, then cleaning fuel filters, checking fuel psi, checking spark and see where I'm at. 

After that I'll jump back into fan problem.  

 

HTElectrical helped put a lot in perspective as well..thanks

 

I'll post updates

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@Jammer75Do you have a laptop? If so, load the ECU software and plug into your computer, it'll tell you what all your sensors are doing, and if it sees cam and crank when you're trying to start the motor. If you can't, start with old school troubleshooting. You had wet plugs so probably not fuel pressure. Does the fuel pump run when you first turn on the key? Do you hear fuel going back into the tank from the return line?

You know your cam and crank are timed correctly. So it's on to spark next. Check to see if all 4 plugs are sparking. Do you have COP or a coil pack? 

For the fans, my money is on a stuck relay. I have to swap both my fan relays about every 4 years. I run 40A relays and they still don't last. Lots of new parts are junk these days.

Note: In your wiring nest...I would figure out what each relay does and label it. Then find out what every fuse does and label that. Carry a few spare relays and a fuse kit. You might need that info in the middle of the dunes at midnight sometime.

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4 hours ago, Turbo_Manx_Maniac said:

@Jammer75Do you have a laptop? If so, load the ECU software and plug into your computer, it'll tell you what all your sensors are doing, and if it sees cam and crank when you're trying to start the motor. If you can't, start with old school troubleshooting. You had wet plugs so probably not fuel pressure. Does the fuel pump run when you first turn on the key? Do you hear fuel going back into the tank from the return line?

You know your cam and crank are timed correctly. So it's on to spark next. Check to see if all 4 plugs are sparking. Do you have COP or a coil pack? 

For the fans, my money is on a stuck relay. I have to swap both my fan relays about every 4 years. I run 40A relays and they still don't last. Lots of new parts are junk these days.

Note: In your wiring nest...I would figure out what each relay does and label it. Then find out what every fuse does and label that. Carry a few spare relays and a fuse kit. You might need that info in the middle of the dunes at midnight sometime.

First how do I tag someone like you did me???

 

I have a laptop and the program installed and every time I've tried to hook it up, the laptop wont see/find the link system...

 

yes fuel pump runs +/- 5 secs on key on

i will check if I can hear fuel returning--check for only when energized? or after the pump has stopped as well?

I will check spark  - I have cop (Coil Over Pack) I believe

I replaced all the relays - I have 7 of them (3 labeled are fan, ecu and fuel pump) (other 4 are unknown- i think 1 is lights 1 is whips and 2 that are just there?

My plan was to do this project over summer(as I never had an electrical issue till now and took care of all other items)- but I'm doing it now--LOL

 

Thanks and I'll update on what I find

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Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

34 minutes ago, Jammer75 said:

First how do I tag someone like you did me???

 

I have a laptop and the program installed and every time I've tried to hook it up, the laptop wont see/find the link system...

 

yes fuel pump runs +/- 5 secs on key on

i will check if I can hear fuel returning--check for only when energized? or after the pump has stopped as well?

I will check spark  - I have cop (Coil Over Pack) I believe

I replaced all the relays - I have 7 of them (3 labeled are fan, ecu and fuel pump) (other 4 are unknown- i think 1 is lights 1 is whips and 2 that are just there?

My plan was to do this project over summer(as I never had an electrical issue till now and took care of all other items)- but I'm doing it now--LOL

 

Thanks and I'll update on what I find

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  🤣Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

 

Good luck! 🍻

Edited by Turbo_Manx_Maniac
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11 minutes ago, Turbo_Manx_Maniac said:

Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  🤣Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

 

Good luck! 🍻

Thanks for everything and I’ll try all options. As far as the fuel return the pump, it is real close to the tank and is noisy. Would it make sense to disconnect the return fuel line and see if I get pressure squirting out when I do key on the ignition for the fuel pump?

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58 minutes ago, Turbo_Manx_Maniac said:

Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  🤣Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

 

Good luck! 🍻

Thanks for everything and I’ll try all options. 
 

fuel pump looking into gas tank as far as I can tell there is gas flowing back into tank when fuel pump is running….
 

Edited by Jammer75
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Ok. 
fuel pump appears to be returning fuel to tank. 
haven’t checked psi. Yet will get a gauge in the morning. 

getting spark on all 4 plugs 

compression check in order of checking them

cyl#3 140

cyl#1 130

cyl#4 120

cyl#2 90 (when running sounded like this valve has been ticking)

P ground wire from ecu runs by itself to ground on block

s ground wire runs to block but has other wires attached to it near ecu. See pic. 
 

cylinders 1 & 2 are just dumping fuel. 
 

I will have to do fuel psi. Check and see if I can hook up laptop tomorrow. 

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image.jpg

Edited by Jammer75
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first off that MAP is very poor,  it has never been properly tuned as the rows would not progressively go up like they do and the one cell with "0" should not be zero  this is not what's making it not run but there is so much more drivability in that motor once tuned  thats why your plugs are so black

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7 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

first off that MAP is very poor,  it has never been properly tuned as the rows would not progressively go up like they do and the one cell with "0" should not be zero  this is not what's making it not run but there is so much more drivability in that motor once tuned  thats why your plugs are so black

That’s not the tune of the car(it’s a sample map in the link program) Not sure how to have the ecu sees the laptop. 

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Only some later link 1 Ecu’s can use the serial link. More than likely yours is really old. Show me the sticker with number in the side of the ecu

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I just fixed another buggy yesterday that had a link Ecu.  Customer had poor wiring and put in new connectors and rewired the Ecu’s in a box. Said he took tons of pictures. And that it was right. Well it wasn’t. He had crossed 4 wires on one connector and hurt the fuel pump driver.  we got him all fixed for 3.5 hours. That is the worst and hardest problem to fix as this type of problem could “never” happen on its own

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7 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

Only some later link 1 Ecu’s can use the serial link. More than likely yours is really old. Show me the sticker with number in the side of the ecu

 

image.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Jammer75 said:

 

image.jpg

That was made on 7-14-2005. It says v5. Version 5 I would think that’s new enough. Regardless it can always be tuned by a handheld tuning module. 

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Just now, John@Outfront said:

That was made on 7-14-2005. It says v5. Version 5 I would think that’s new enough. Regardless it can always be tuned by a handheld tuning module. 

I didn’t make any changes to anything with the start of this problem. Is it more engine related with the different compression numbers?

Other than getting fuel psi  readings  not sure where to go if I can’t get laptop to hook up to it  where can I find a hand held?

is it time for a new (used)ej20 and a updated ecu and rewire  and tune? (I’ve been waiting for this day to come)

I hate to not know why I have this issue and just through things at it. 

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this is just a shot in the dark one of the holes for the coils looks like the gasket is blown out did it soak the coil with oil and stop that cylinder from fireing. which could of washed down the cylinder giving you that low compression number

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5 minutes ago, Jersey_Jeff73 said:

this is just a shot in the dark one of the holes for the coils looks like the gasket is blown out did it soak the coil with oil and stop that cylinder from fireing. which could of washed down the cylinder giving you that low compression number

That appears to just be some rtv(or whatever I used last time I did the valve covers. Since that cylinder is getting so much gas I assume that’s causing the low number. No oil leaking though. I’ve got good spark on all 4 coils. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Jammer75
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45 minutes ago, Jammer75 said:

I didn’t make any changes to anything with the start of this problem. Is it more engine related with the different compression numbers?

Other than getting fuel psi  readings  not sure where to go if I can’t get laptop to hook up to it  where can I find a hand held?

is it time for a new (used)ej20 and a updated ecu and rewire  and tune? (I’ve been waiting for this day to come)

I hate to not know why I have this issue and just through things at it. 

Judging from what I found, pic included I should be able to get this to be read by the laptop. But I can’t figure out the port thing. 

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CF90CA25-AA41-4047-84D0-FBD2018CACE3.jpeg

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I didn’t see your compression readings. But if it is way off then all bets are off no motor could run well if you had poor compression

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2 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

I didn’t see your compression readings. But if it is way off then all bets are off no motor could run well if you had poor compression

I agree, but coming. back from a powerful ride everything ran great, idle was great. That cylinder has had a lot of raw fuel in it from trying so much to get it started. Is it possible that the gas washed down the cylinder so much it has that reading? Should I try squirting a little oil in there to help it and check reading again, could it be a valve(noticed a ticking from that side for a while?) 

If it is the case of the engine. I think I would want to find a local Jdm 2.0 turbo (8-9 psi boost)(using an 091) and a new ecu from you (atomx with  a loom?) wire it up and bring to you to tune? 

I think my engine would not be worth trying to fix…and the ecu seems pretty outdated…

thoughts?

I would think even with 90 psi I should be able to get the engine to run somewhat even with starting fluid for a bit..no?

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That all sounds like a good plan but it may be cheaper to at least let me see it for 2-3 hours before spending a lot more money and perhaps your motor might come back and finish the year

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24 minutes ago, John@Outfront said:

That all sounds like a good plan but it may be cheaper to at least let me see it for 2-3 hours before spending a lot more money and perhaps your motor might come back and finish the year

John I sent you an email

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