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Freightliner chassis. Today was a " how in the world does this happen" Moment. Studs spinning in drums??


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1999 National Tradewinds. Freightliner chassis which there are a ton of on the road. Second set of tires I have put on this coach. First three corners of 8 big 30mm lugnuts torque just fine. Then on the last rear double wheel bolts just keep spinning and won't torque. Not 1 but 4 studs are now spinning in the drum. So now I need to pull this apart and either put in new studs or spot weld the back side if I think the weld on cast iron will work. Strange but true. Anyone ever see this? Oh and I am not positive but thinking the drum should slide off when I pull the dual wheels?  450lbs torque on these big lug nuts so I will need the tire guy to come back after I fix it.  

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8 new studs and nuts.   never seen that happen i bet those wheels are hard to find dont think they used that 8 lug setup for long . almost all trucks are 10 lug hub piloted 

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1 minute ago, Jersey_Jeff73 said:

8 new studs and nuts.   never seen that happen i bet those wheels are hard to find dont think they used that 8 lug setup for long . almost all trucks are 10 lug hub piloted 

Thanks. Need to figure out where to buy the studs local in Phoenix when I tear it apart.

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freightliner dealer with the vin number get a extra nut and a few washers to pull the studs in.   pull the studs in with the nut and help seat them with a hammer 

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4 minutes ago, Jersey_Jeff73 said:

freightliner dealer with the vin number get a extra nut and a few washers to pull the studs in.   pull the studs in with the nut and help seat them with a hammer 

i would not weld the studs if you ever get a flat they might spin and then you will have to cut the studs to get the wheel off turning a simple flat into a nightmare

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1 minute ago, Jersey_Jeff73 said:

i would not weld the studs if you ever get a flat they might spin and then you will have to cut the studs to get the wheel off turning a simple flat into a nightmare

Yep. You are right. Not worth the risk. Welding was an earlier thought that became less of an option as I thought about it.

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you are going to need a hub is my guess i am sure there is an truck supply place that is not a dealer that will save a bunch of money but to check call dealer with the vin ask price and availability if they don’t have it they will usually give you a part # this you can use to call around and find it cheaper and hubs usually come with studs installed you will also need an axel seal 

and  jack up the side you are working on enough for the oil to run to the opposite side about 3 inches and hubs come in aluminum and steel if you have aluminum you can changeover to steel it will be cheaper 

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1 hour ago, Arch Stanton said:

you are going to need a hub is my guess i am sure there is an truck supply place that is not a dealer that will save a bunch of money but to check call dealer with the vin ask price and availability if they don’t have it they will usually give you a part # this you can use to call around and find it cheaper and hubs usually come with studs installed you will also need an axel seal 

and  jack up the side you are working on enough for the oil to run to the opposite side about 3 inches and hubs come in aluminum and steel if you have aluminum you can changeover to steel it will be cheaper 

Not understanding why it would need a hub? Studs are just spinning. I have installed many studs in different passenger car and truck applications. These are just bigger parts.

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my guess he is thinking that the holes in the hub are worn and the new studs wouldn't hold tight. personally I've never seen one spin ive changed alot of them usually putting longer studs in for alloy wheels. they are pressed in very tight my guess why the spun looks like someone heated them up to get them off and possible lost the hardness which allowed the knurling to flatten out and spin.  they are a oddball hub ive only seen them on a few freightliners the common ones are pretty cheap the hub with studs could be cheaper than the studs alone. ask them to send you a quote on the parts so you can get the part numbers most of the time they wont give up the part numbers if you ask for them directly.

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I have seen that problem many times. The holes in the hub may be a little bit oversized due to the stud spinning in there but some new studs should solve your problem. Replace the ones that are spinning and any others that are questionable. The knurl on the new studs is measurably bigger than the holes in the hub so even in the oversized holes new studs should fit tight. That knurl on the new stud will “squish” a little when forced into the holes. They’ll squish more in the good holes and a little less in the bad ones but should still fit tight unless the you’ve got a hole that’s just destroyed but that’s unlikely. 

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32 minutes ago, Jersey_Jeff73 said:

my guess he is thinking that the holes in the hub are worn and the new studs wouldn't hold tight. personally I've never seen one spin ive changed alot of them usually putting longer studs in for alloy wheels. they are pressed in very tight my guess why the spun looks like someone heated them up to get them off and possible lost the hardness which allowed the knurling to flatten out and spin.  they are a oddball hub ive only seen them on a few freightliners the common ones are pretty cheap the hub with studs could be cheaper than the studs alone. ask them to send you a quote on the parts so you can get the part numbers most of the time they wont give up the part numbers if you ask for them directly.

Funny you say that. Today the tire guy could not get 1 lug nut off. I heated it up almost cherry red to get it to break loose. This guy was referred to me and did not have the adequate tooling for a mobile service. His socket was to short and only grabbing less than 1/2 the surface area on the lug nut. I thought an extra 50 for the mobile guy would be worth it but should have taken the coach in to a big truck shop. Live and learn. This motorhome came from back east so there is some rust which is the discoloration. 

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5 minutes ago, Rorschach said:

I have seen that problem many times. The holes in the hub may be a little bit oversized due to the stud spinning in there but some new studs should solve your problem. Replace the ones that are spinning and any others that are questionable. The knurl on the new studs is measurably bigger than the holes in the hub so even in the oversized holes new studs should fit tight. That knurl on the new stud will “squish” a little when forced into the holes. They’ll squish more in the good holes and a little less in the bad ones but should still fit tight unless the you’ve got a hole that’s just destroyed but that’s unlikely. 

Hoping it is just this one hub. Makes sense since 4 off them are spinning. I will replace all 8 in that hub.

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I am guessing the hub is Aluminum and the stud holes are corroded out and thats why the studs spun It could happen with steel also. Once a stud has spun I don't believe there will be enough hub to get a stud to grip. The east coast salt and other chemicals just ruin everything and make everything harder to work on.

While you have the wheels off clean the corrosion off both the hubs and wheels it can cause vibrations that gets blamed on wheel balance.

I run dump trucks that get new tires every year plus brake jobs and suspension work that requires pulling the wheels I have had trucks go 20 plus years with aluminum hubs and never had a stud spin and trailers that are 40 plus years old with the old ball seat and thimble that I have run for 25 plus years with steel hubs and never had one spin I have had broken or striped threads and replaced studs, if you can get them to grab in the  hub turn the hub threads of stud down on top of the break drum and beat the new ones in when they seat the hub will bounce different on the drum. the studs are usually marked on the back of the stud with a code that will identify it.

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Watching the way the lugs were spinning in the bore and if this is aluminum for sure the hub will be junk.  Probably just take your advice and order a hub. :makerain:

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You should be able to buy the studs at any parts supplier that sells heavy duty. Napa, Fleetpride, etc

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6 minutes ago, onanysunday said:

Called Freightliner and hubs and studs are both obsolete. This might get to be fun

 

You should be able to buy the studs at any parts supplier that sells heavy duty. Napa, Fleetpride, etc
Just take a sample 

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Being stuck on the side of the road and having this happen would be a disaster. New hubs (if you can find them) seems a reasonable course of action to prevent this in the future. it you fix one stud its a matter of time before the others have similar problems - with the TQ on those  they would have to seat well.Using and Impact with that force I can see why over time and a little corrosion (rust) form back east this would be an issue ...

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I can tell you that you probably won’t find those 8 hole hubs so replacing the studs is really your only option and should solve your problem just fine. I’ve run across issues like this before with a ruined hub due to a bearing failure and was unable to find those 8 hole hubs new or used. It was on a semi truck. We ended up changing the hub to a 10 hole on that wheel position and changing out the wheels to 10s also but just on that one wheel position. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to do that on just one or even two wheel positions so that would mean changing over all wheel positions and all the wheels. That being said; just replacing your studs is probably looking more appealing. 

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what is the part # i will ask my suppliers 

changing to 10 stud hubs in the one location may be the answer and used steel wheels are cheap

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Well I am very happy we completely mis diagnosed this. Four of the nuts were simply spinning on the studs. Pulled the threads right out. I did have to work my four good nuts left over on and off the dinged up studs to help clean the threads up and then run the new nuts off and on with oil but got them all on there. $95 for eight nuts and just need to torque them now. I think they will torque fine. I did throw the tire Guy under the bus earlier because he did damage the lug nuts with too short of a socket but I honestly don't think he would have caused this problem. Thinking these were maybe over torqued at some point. He did say they were harder to get off and really fought with them. I had to even heat one with the torch almost cherry red and put a breaker bar on it. If I had needed to do studs that were spinning in the hub my dad had said simply weld in four little flat pieces of steel between two studs each to hold them in place. Genius.

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Just now remembered my coach was at a big tire shop in town within the last year. We deleted the hose extensions at the rear dual wheels which completely got rid of any slow leaks. I know for sure they only had one side off of the rear and then he reached up in there to remove the other side without removing the rear wheels on that side. Very suspect and they could have over torqued those nuts. Hmmm. Git er done! While it is on the rack I have new air bags in the rear that need to go in. 

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