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Summer LS Swap


Funco4JM

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Hey all,

Over summer I decided that I will do an LS swap into my Gen4. I have already purchased the LS1, it is complete out of another running sand car. Nothing special, stock LS1 with Painless harness, corvette computer running all sensors, Painless fuse block and relays, OBDII port, Intake with MAF, headers, adaptor plate and clutch. Should be easy for the most part. 

This is my list of things to Fab or Change -

Engine mounts to be fabbed

Coolant Lines to be fabbed

Replace Bosch -6 fuel system with Aeromotive -8 (A1000, pre/post filter, regulator and all new -8 fittings/hose)

Weld in -4 bung in coolant purge tank for LS steam port line

Change fans on CBR radiator from 14" (Circa 2004) to new 16" Hi Performance fans

Replace P/S lines due to pump location change and attached resi vs remote resi

Battery option - Add second Odyssee PC925, or remove existing PC925 and install a single Optima full size? Any recommendations on this?

 

For those of you who have LS swapped a Gen4, what where some of the struggles you encountered? 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

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Fans, don't go by the mfg's cfm rating.  Look at current draw.  It will give you a better idea of the motor size, and how much work it's actually doing.  Something like this is good.

Battery, I wouldn't trust an Optima to function as a door stop...

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Quote

Change fans on CBR radiator from 14" (Circa 2004) to new 16" Hi Performance fans

If I were you, the Kartek Spal Brushless Fans would be high on my list!!!

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1 minute ago, HTElectrical said:

If I were you, the Kartek Spal Brushless Fans would be high on my list!!!

I was just gonna edit my post to include brushless...

https://www.spalautomotive.it/brushless/va117-abl506p-103a/36707

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Which is this at Kartek.

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1 minute ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

I was just gonna edit my post to include brushless...

https://www.spalautomotive.it/brushless/va117-abl506p-103a/36707

Yeah Right:classic_blink:  I almost did on my recent upgrades, but ran out of money.  At $300 per 12" fan, and another coupe hundred for controller they are spendy..

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Don't forget one of these

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Kraut_n_Rice

I don't see any CFM or Current draw specs.  What have you seen as far as normal to Brushless comparisons?

Do you think the extra coin is worth it?

 

Edited by HTElectrical
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10 minutes ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Fans, don't go by the mfg's cfm rating.  Look at current draw.  It will give you a better idea of the motor size, and how much work it's actually doing.  Something like this is good.

Battery, I wouldn't trust an Optima to function as a door stop...

Good to know... May not go the route of Brushless due to the additional wiring and sensors needed. I may not even need new fans, I am just thinking the 14" fans that are 18 years old may need to be replaced with some 16" modern units. 

 

On the battery, what would you suggest? A different brand large group single, or dual odyssee PC925? Full disclosure, I already have a 2nd PC925 and battery box. I was going to pass it along to a buddy and use my original PC925 battery on my trailer to power my fuel drum pump, if I went the single battery route.

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6 minutes ago, HTElectrical said:

Yeah Right:classic_blink:  I almost did on my recent upgrades, but ran out of money.  At $300 per 12" fan, and another coupe hundred for controller they are spendy..

A friend of mine always says a crack addiction would be cheaper than playing in the sand... I'm starting to believe that Lol. 

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2 hours ago, HTElectrical said:

Kraut_n_Rice

I don't see any CFM or Current draw specs.  What have you seen as far as normal to Brushless comparisons?

Do you think the extra coin is worth it?

 

The spal link I provided has all the data in a graph.  It's metric, but it's there.  That fan is just under 35 amps and 2400cfm.  The nice thing about the brushless fans is they are progressive.  They vary the speed with temperature.  You would only need to run a 40 amp fuse because there is no huge in rush of current on start up.  With the sensor options you can try to target your engine temps, and you only need one.  They can control up to 12 fans each.

Price wise, the brushless are not quite double.  Worth it?  Judgment of the person spending the money.

There are devices on the market that will make you brushed fans operate like brushless.  Soft start fan controllers that will also vary the fan speed by a user programmable setting.   

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I can help you with some savings… unless you already have the a1000 I think you would be better served with an aem fuel pump. I run it on my stroker and even with an e60 blend of fuel it was plenty of fuel pump. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/AEM-Electronics-50-1009-Inline-Flow/dp/B077JJ2Z5C/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=1KLULDYJ45BSL&keywords=aem+400lph+fuel+pump&qid=1647647218&sprefix=aem+40%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-4

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What engine are you removing?

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14 hours ago, Jtmoney714 said:

I can help you with some savings… unless you already have the a1000 I think you would be better served with an aem fuel pump. I run it on my stroker and even with an e60 blend of fuel it was plenty of fuel pump. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/AEM-Electronics-50-1009-Inline-Flow/dp/B077JJ2Z5C/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=1KLULDYJ45BSL&keywords=aem+400lph+fuel+pump&qid=1647647218&sprefix=aem+40%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-4

I already have the a1000. Thanks for the info tho!

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14 hours ago, Grease Monkey said:

What engine are you removing?

I’m removing a 500hp Turbo Honda. It’s mated to a Fortin S4. 

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I run a single pc925 on my Gen 4 with a Stroked LS2.   I don't have a lot of electrical accessories (stereo, heated seats, etc) but it always starts the car no problem.

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Well, the process has begun... Started with removal of the Honda V6 and its accessories. This I found to be the easy part... 

Honda.jpg.c7679545d8f0866a51778ed4c222840c.jpg

 

For mock-up I did not install the clutch as I have to change the throw out bearing and do some cleanup in the bay. It will come out once or twice before going back in permanently. 

LS.jpg.79dd82071ba00d3c46800320276ae1fa.jpg

 

It went in with no issues. I quickly installed the rear cage to check clearance, no issues there other than the intake elbow. There is just not enough room from the TB to cage to make the elbow fit. I do have to rotate the intake 180* and that is where the problem began. I was excited and didn't stop to think of potential issues, not thinking about the sand build up under the intake, I removed the harness and unbolted the intake. Popped the PCV system off and grabbed the intake to remove... Thats when the gallon of sand that was under the intake flowed into all 8 intake runners and into my cylinders... Or some of them anyway. As I sat there cursing myself for not thinking things through, I realized the worst part was having to buy new gaskets. I'll just blow it apart, clean it and reassemble it. Being April, I still have plenty of time before the season starts *knocks on wood*. 

With that nonsense to deal with, I am pondering should I spend the $$ and have the 243 heads ported while they are off? It is a stock bottom end LS1 with a GM Performance Cam and springs. The intake is an LS6 with a stock 78mm throttle body and GM computer. I planned on pushing it to 383 cubes next year (can't swing that this year) but I might swing the heads now. Would it even be worth it with the 78mm throttle body?!

I already began the purchase of parts and items I would need for the swap. Fuel system is mostly here with just a fuel pump on its way, I wanted to go a little overkill in case I ended up with TT on E85 or something crazy, so all new -10AN fuel feed lines, Aeromotive filters, brushless Aeromotive fuel pump and Aeromotive X1 Regulator. I'll have to replace the existing 3/8NPT bung with a 1/2NPT bung on the fuel tank to feed it. The return line will be -8AN from the regulator to the tank. No changes there needed. 

Next thing to figure out is coolant lines... What are your thoughts on hard lining them vs. -16/-20 hose? The hose is very pricey compared to hard line fab. Since my current radiator uses an expansion tank, I will have to weld on a -4AN bung for the steam port line coming from the LS. I also need a bung added to the lower radiator hose for the expansion tank to drain back to. This is where the coolant line material comes into play. If it is hardline, I weld in a bung for an AN feed. If it is a soft line, I will have to have some sort of break in the line where a feed bung can be added, then soft line to radiator. 

I decided to just add a second PC925 to the car. Ordered a Funco battery box to add to the passenger side of the Forin. That will make it easy to wire into the new battery disconnect switch. 

I'll try to get some pics of stuff as it comes in. 

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1 hour ago, Funco4JM said:

Well, the process has begun... Started with removal of the Honda V6 and its accessories. This I found to be the easy part... 

 

Next thing to figure out is coolant lines... What are your thoughts on hard lining them vs. -16/-20 hose? The hose is very pricey compared to hard line fab. Since my current radiator uses an expansion tank, I will have to weld on a -4AN bung for the steam port line coming from the LS. I also need a bung added to the lower radiator hose for the expansion tank to drain back to. This is where the coolant line material comes into play. If it is hardline, I weld in a bung for an AN feed. If it is a soft line, I will have to have some sort of break in the line where a feed bung can be added, then soft line to radiator. 

 

Actual expansion tank with a pressurized cap, or just an overflow bottle?

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4 minutes ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Actual expansion tank with a pressurized cap, or just an overflow bottle?

It has a pressurized cap. My radiator does not have a cap on it. This is the only way to introduce coolant to the system. 

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On 3/18/2022 at 10:30 AM, Funco4JM said:

 

Replace Bosch -6 fuel system with Aeromotive -8 (A1000, pre/post filter, regulator and all new -8 fittings/hose)

 

 

Stock LS  and basically anything 550HP or under no reason to spend crazy money on an A1000

If you have a Bosch 044 and   decent Pre and Post filters, a regulator that will give you 58PSI  and -6 line you will have issues

500HP from HONDA via 500HP from and LS uses the same Lbs/hr of fuel to get there  - in fact a Turbo car vs NA has greater fuel needs (efficiency)

If you did not starve the Honda - you will not starve the LS

If the fuel system is old - change the lines (keep the hose ends)  and change the Filter elements out. 

If the Bosch pump is old buy an AEM-400  - that pump is good for the same HP as the A1000 and costs $150 (but from a verified dealer - there are counterfiets out there)

It you are pulling tank and want to upgrade to a -10 outlet and use a shutoff valve and Pre Filer -10 in and out  - its not a bad idea

If you were not running a fuel regulator with a return previously - you will need one  - thats a good place to spend a few $$ and buy and aeromotive 13129 regulator inexpensive and good for over 650HP

If you decide to go Bigger make sure you go -10 in not -8  because any pump you use that is higher Lbs/hr than say the AEM  will need -10

The brushless pumps are a waste of money unless you want to make over 1000-1200 Crank HP as you will need a motor controller so they don't overheat with just 500HP or less until you go Big 1000HP TT and you will not get good regulation with a large regulator that wants to flow for 1000+ plus on 500HP engine, I have "fixed" lots of those problems on people that put "race car parts" on mild cars  - its easy to spend $2500 on that type of fuel system and it will not give you 1 more HP.  I did lots of Fuel system upgrade with aero Brushless stuff for E85 and doing it US parts and good E85 compatible line - the parts are easily $2500 if you want fittings and lines  that e85 won't eat ( Earls or XRP) in a year or two.

 

Spend that on a set of heads and cam and buy the AEM and get 100HP today ... FWIW

 

Edited by Fullthrottleguy
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Thanks for the info!

When I sold my Honda the entire fuel system went with it from tank outlet to tank inlet. It was a small Bosch (did not flow as much as the 044) with Bosch filters and it was on the edge of not being enough. I planned on an upgrade and found that the A750 vs the A1000 price was not much different, plus the price from -8AN to -10AN was not much different. With future plans on engine upgrades not solid, I wanted to make sure whatever I decided in the future I wouldn't have to mess with the new fuel system. The fittings are all E85 rated with Aeromotive filter/shut off pre and post. I did buck up for the Aeromotive X1 regulator as well. The tank is out of the car, and it will be easy to change the bung on it now vs. later.

Today the LS is stock, next year it won't be, will it end up TT, or super high compression NA on E85? I don't know but I don't want to nickel and dime myself over years of upgrades to a fueling system when I can buy once and cry once. 

On the pump, I've recently heard from a lot of people that the A1000 are locking up due to the vibration and brushes wedging in the housing. This is the reason I am feeling the brushless design. Can you elaborate on the motor controller you mentioned? I was not aware you needed additional equipment for the brushless pumps. This may change the plan a bit. 

Heads... Well, I am thinking I may send them to PRC or CBM for porting and valve job. I already have a GM performance cam in the engine (don't know specs) so a little more powa would be nice. Plus the heads will already be off the engine due to my eff up. 

All in I would imagine there are multiple ways to accomplish one's goals... I tend to be more hardheaded in what I see and want. The Honda was on E85, and I told myself as I was pulling it out that I didn't want to mess with E85 ever again, yet here I am planning a fuel system to handle E85 just in case... lol.

 

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On 4/12/2022 at 10:57 AM, Funco4JM said:

Thanks for the info!

When I sold my Honda the entire fuel system went with it from tank outlet to tank inlet. It was a small Bosch (did not flow as much as the 044) with Bosch filters and it was on the edge of not being enough. I planned on an upgrade and found that the A750 vs the A1000 price was not much different, plus the price from -8AN to -10AN was not much different. With future plans on engine upgrades not solid, I wanted to make sure whatever I decided in the future I wouldn't have to mess with the new fuel system. The fittings are all E85 rated with Aeromotive filter/shut off pre and post. I did buck up for the Aeromotive X1 regulator as well. The tank is out of the car, and it will be easy to change the bung on it now vs. later.

Today the LS is stock, next year it won't be, will it end up TT, or super high compression NA on E85? I don't know but I don't want to nickel and dime myself over years of upgrades to a fueling system when I can buy once and cry once. 

On the pump, I've recently heard from a lot of people that the A1000 are locking up due to the vibration and brushes wedging in the housing. This is the reason I am feeling the brushless design. Can you elaborate on the motor controller you mentioned? I was not aware you needed additional equipment for the brushless pumps. This may change the plan a bit. 

Heads... Well, I am thinking I may send them to PRC or CBM for porting and valve job. I already have a GM performance cam in the engine (don't know specs) so a little more powa would be nice. Plus the heads will already be off the engine due to my eff up. 

All in I would imagine there are multiple ways to accomplish one's goals... I tend to be more hardheaded in what I see and want. The Honda was on E85, and I told myself as I was pulling it out that I didn't want to mess with E85 ever again, yet here I am planning a fuel system to handle E85 just in case... lol.

 

In regards to your pump choice, take a look at Weldon pumps. The one on my car was there for almost 20 years. The quality is outstanding on them and if you have any issues or questions you talk directly to the owner of the company.

https://www.weldonracing.com/

 

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1 hour ago, Carwashguru said:

In regards to your pump choice, take a look at Weldon pumps. The one on my car was there for almost 20 years. The quality is outstanding on them and if you have any issues or questions you talk directly to the owner of the company.

https://www.weldonracing.com/

 

One of my friends is moving from Aeromotive to Weldon. I'll have to take a look at them. 

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