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saychz316

USS Fitzgerald

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Im just a regular guy in this world. But can someone explain to me just how in the hell a United States Naval Destroyer collides with a container ship in the Pacific?

I mean was this Titanic style? Everyone asleep at the wheel on the Fitzgerald? 

I just find it so hard to believe that a state of the art effing destroyer gets in a fender bender with a Phillipino container ship, and leaves us with 7 sailors missing. Tragic.

Im just at a loss.

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I can speculate based on my experience...

The surface Navy has a culture and mindset that doesn't give a f*ck about their people.  They keep them up for days, rotate their watches so they have no circadian rhythm, don't feed them properly.  Add that to the culture and mindset of today's generation, but this has been happening since we put ships to sea.  These people are so tired and simply don't give a f*ck.  While I was an Operations Officer on a Destroyer Squadron Staff, I wrote a program (something Aviators had been doing for years) and pushed it out to our ships to change their watch schedules to shorter watches and put people on a circadian rhythm.  First response...they freaked and wouldn't do it.  After a while, they tried it. Guess what...better performance, morale went up, people got healthier.  After I transferred, they went back to their old ways.  Until directed, the surface Navy will never grow and always have these problems.

U.S. Navy ships are manned 100% of the time on the bridge...on watch.  Merchant ships...they put the thing on autopilot and go to bed.  They have proximity warnings that are suppose to wake people up...but...not all do.

This was a multiple layer failure.  Bridge watches not looking out.  Bridge navigation team, not monitoring radar.  Combat team...not monitoring radar.

Next possible solution...

They were in a strait transit or coastal transit condition that left them limited to maneuverability and "something" happened.  Something could be an engineering failure (engines, steering, etc...) on either ship.  Still, ships don't transit that close to each other.  I'm sticking with the human factor.

Next possible solution....

Near the Philippines....possible terrorist or pirate crew making a deliberate attack.  Still...U.S. Navy crews should have caught it.

Next possible solution...

One or both ships not having their lights on.  The Navy ship...could have been doing deceptive lighting.  Merchant ship...could have had a failed lighting system.  Still...radar would have caught this.

 

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Good explanations Mac. Especially the circadian rhythm stuff. Serious issue in my line of work too.

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I'm also curious to find out what actually happened. If everyone was doing their jobs properly, it shouldn't have happened.

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Just heard on the news that that container ship was heading into port and for an unexplained reason turned around.......terrorism? Makes no sense that the destroyer wouldn't have been able to out maneuver a cargo ship.

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Just another incident showing how vulnerable our country is. We outta step up our game before chit goes down!

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1 hour ago, mike dee said:

Just another incident showing how vulnerable our country is. We outta step up our game before chit goes down!

Um, no.

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31 minutes ago, L.R.S. said:

Um, no.

How so?

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11 hours ago, mike dee said:

How so?

See post #2. 

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55 minutes ago, L.R.S. said:

See post #2. 

Exactly 

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My wifes niece called crying today, she just graduated boot camp last year and was friends with one of the kids who was killed on the ship. RIP

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Truly a very sad incident. RIP to the sailors that died and prayers to their families. Those pictures are insane on how much carnage there was and that doesn't even show the damage underwater. If it wasn't for the training the rest of the crew had they would be looking for the destroyer at the bottom of the ocean...

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Crowded ocean around Japan.  Late at night.  Container ships do stupid shit all the time and can't turn/stop worth a shit.

Edited by Rockwood

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I also have a big problem with this type of incident.  

A American destroyer can run circles around the biggest and slowest cargo ship.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  

Shouldn't the American vessel be able to see this cargo ship with radar from horizon to horizon?

Isn't there auto features on the destroyer that will auto correct, slow, maneuver and possible override a manual controls?

What if this was a crapastan type bad guy cargo ship, doesn't the destroyer have like major alarms to wake the dead?

I fly some pretty old stuff and I have more alarms just so stuff like this does not happen.  

If this is the naval norm, god help us all!!!!

US government should investigate this type of incident and stop the Russians theory.  

Just sayin!!!!

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1 hour ago, Wash 10 Crew said:

I also have a big problem with this type of incident.  

A American destroyer can run circles around the biggest and slowest cargo ship.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  

Shouldn't the American vessel be able to see this cargo ship with radar from horizon to horizon?

Isn't there auto features on the destroyer that will auto correct, slow, maneuver and possible override a manual controls?

What if this was a crapastan type bad guy cargo ship, doesn't the destroyer have like major alarms to wake the dead?

I fly some pretty old stuff and I have more alarms just so stuff like this does not happen.  

If this is the naval norm, god help us all!!!!

US government should investigate this type of incident and stop the Russians theory.  

Just sayin!!!!

 

Ships only go so fast.  I wouldn't say our's can run circles around others.  A DDG (Guided missile destroyer) only goes a bit over 30kts.  A carrier?  50+kts.

Radar goes over the horizon, plus...satellite borne sensors...You can see a global picture 24/7 based on LINK, Satcom, GEEKS, etc...There are backups to the backups.

As far as proximity sensors...nope.  you can set certain things up but they are set up by the person on watch in Combat...nothing hard set in the computer.  (We don't have any proximity warning systems in aircraft either.)

Again, even the radar tracks on the ships showing the cargo ship moving erratically, I'm going with the "human" factor in that the Bridge and combat watch teams didn't do their jobs based on being tired, "not my job", "the other guy will say something", or "I hate the Officer in Charge"...  Yeah...that's the state of our Navy.

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Maybe we want to use the radar from the Sea Shepard and Bob Baker, they always see and find them sneaky little bastards!!!! :rotf:

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Having been through the exact same type of collision back in the 90's.   It was caused by the officer of the deck in my case.   He was very junior and made a few wrong decisions against every one else's recommendations to turn out of the way

FB_IMG_1498158365714.jpg

FB_IMG_1498158386679.jpg

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My radar on my 23 ft Parker will yell at me if something gets that close.........Somebody wasn't ready....again especially in this day and age we live in....somebody is going to lose their boat keys....

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On 6/21/2017 at 2:37 PM, Mac said:

 

Ships only go so fast.  I wouldn't say our's can run circles around others.  A DDG (Guided missile destroyer) only goes a bit over 30kts.  A carrier?  50+kts.

Radar goes over the horizon, plus...satellite borne sensors...You can see a global picture 24/7 based on LINK, Satcom, GEEKS, etc...There are backups to the backups.

As far as proximity sensors...nope.  you can set certain things up but they are set up by the person on watch in Combat...nothing hard set in the computer.  (We don't have any proximity warning systems in aircraft either.)

Again, even the radar tracks on the ships showing the cargo ship moving erratically, I'm going with the "human" factor in that the Bridge and combat watch teams didn't do their jobs based on being tired, "not my job", "the other guy will say something", or "I hate the Officer in Charge"...  Yeah...that's the state of our Navy.

GCCS, TDL, etc, aren't going to be real time enough to show a non-combatant at close quarters turning suddenly.  SCS (or whatever it's called on those ABs) might see something, but people have to be staring at it, and at o-dark-thirty, I guarantee that's not happening.

Most likely, it was late at night, depth perception sucks and the night crew is probably the most junior, so it's hard to see that something's coming right at you or that you're gonna meet.  Then, if they do see something, it's probably the typical human case of "this can't be happening" staring contest until it's too late or no one's gonna want to wake Skipper dodging shit that usually doesn't hit you.  Even worse if they were at low speed on station.  

20 hours ago, realbadlarry said:

My radar on my 23 ft Parker will yell at me if something gets that close.........Somebody wasn't ready....again especially in this day and age we live in....somebody is going to lose their boat keys....

If a giant 100' wide cargo ship steaming at 20kts is heading right for you, when that alarm goes off (Furuno?), is there much you could do about it in your 23'?  Imagine trying to get a 9000 ton Arleigh Burke to accomplish anything.  

But agree, at best, that OOD is a permanent shore guy now...

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I can see little itty bitty Cessna 150 buzzing along or a Long Easy buzin at 200 mph and even a lonely F16 just messing with me and the Navy cant see one of the biggest ships on the ocean.  

So in other words, if you are in a 23ft explosive loaded boat from Somalia, they can pretty much blow a hole in any ship and the Navy would not see it!!!!!:coocoo:

I cant believe that the AMERICAN NAVEL does not have a safety in place so the 3 billion dollar destroyer does not get hit by another ship.  Sounds like an inside job and these people should be strung up in front of Congress and explain what happened, but no, the Dems are still witch hunting the Russian connection who hacked the DNC computers.  

Sorry, Just sayin

PS, I hope the navy aircraft are equipped with better radar equipment!!!

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Our navy has a pretty rich history of running into things and each other.  Not to hard to believe this happened. 

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1 hour ago, Wash 10 Crew said:

I can see little itty bitty Cessna 150 buzzing along or a Long Easy buzin at 200 mph and even a lonely F16 just messing with me and the Navy cant see one of the biggest ships on the ocean.  

So in other words, if you are in a 23ft explosive loaded boat from Somalia, they can pretty much blow a hole in any ship and the Navy would not see it!!!!!:coocoo:

I cant believe that the AMERICAN NAVEL does not have a safety in place so the 3 billion dollar destroyer does not get hit by another ship.  Sounds like an inside job and these people should be strung up in front of Congress and explain what happened, but no, the Dems are still witch hunting the Russian connection who hacked the DNC computers.  

Sorry, Just sayin

PS, I hope the navy aircraft are equipped with better radar equipment!!!

I don't think they didn't see the ship.  I think they saw it, marked it, plotted it, saw it wasn't a threat and ignored it until it was too late to do anything.  People do this every single day.  If you're driving along in your lane on the freeway and the dude next to you (who just pulled an all-nighter fueled by hookers and blow) nods off and 90 degrees it in the middle of the freeway, does it matter if 13 collision warnings went off on the dash and you know his license plate by heart?

If they were near Somalia, they'd probably be more alert.  Driving into Yokosuka at 0200, for the 6th time this year, on the other hand...

Mistakes happen.  I highly doubt these guys crashed this shit on purpose. Unfortunately, while we second guess them and insult their intelligence/equipment, 7 sailors aren't coming home.

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13 minutes ago, sausage450r said:

Our navy has a pretty rich history of running into things and each other.  Not to hard to believe this happened. 

Yes, yes they do.  We had just finished a job on USS San Antonio when this happened...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_and_USS_New_Orleans_collision

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