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John@Outfront Mtrsprts

So it begins, My Gen 5 summer 2018 conversion, Outfront Style

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What's the main advantage to the V-band's?  I assume ease of assembly/disassembly?  I'm thinking about using one for my secondary-to-turbine connection.

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:31 AM, Jonesin' said:

Looks slick! What Subi motor is that John? Never seen a 6 cylinder before... 

that motor is a modified 3.6liter from a late model Tribeca. that is destroked to a 3.2 liter

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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2 hours ago, CHIZZLE said:

What's the main advantage to the V-band's?  I assume ease of assembly/disassembly?  I'm thinking about using one for my secondary-to-turbine connection.

I have not really used them before but it is a smoother transition at the turbo. and for me making my own header it will also be easier to make the final "y"  as I can fit one side. completely as if was the only tube. then remove and fit the other side. then simply slice the two right down the middle

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1 hour ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

I have not really used them before but it is a smoother transition at the turbo. and for me making my own header it will also be easier to make the final "y"  as I can fit one side. completely as if was the only tube. then remove and fit the other side. then simply slice the two right down the middle

Do you know if they make the T3.1 housing with the V-band at the turbine port?  I saw one with the intake and exhaust.

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9 hours ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

that motor is a modified 3.6liter from a late model Tribeca. that is destroyed to a 3.2 liter

What kind of power do they make?

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1 hour ago, Jonesin' said:

What kind of power do they make?

A lot more than your wallet or tranny can handle. ;)

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Christmas for me today, turbo is here, SS exhaust housing, Gen 2 turbo.  the holes in the intake are for anti surging. Vband on both sides of the turbine housing

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the header merge was easy to make, just did one side at a time, once finished I cut them down the center (1/4" wider and then sneeked up on the angle and the twist until they both fit. once welded the merge will be stretched open to the 2.25" inlet

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Wow, that is a trick piece.

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:21 PM, CHIZZLE said:

What's the main advantage to the V-band's?  I assume ease of assembly/disassembly?  I'm thinking about using one for my secondary-to-turbine connection.

im thinking staying with a more conventional t3 flange is best, in the rear application it just looks normal, don't know if they have a v band option for the turbine inlet, but having one on the outlet would be cool!

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Just now, onanysunday said:

Wow, that is a trick piece.

light weight too!

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15 hours ago, Jonesin' said:

What kind of power do they make?

look at post number 1

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50 minutes ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

light weight too!

Better be light as its mounted with a v band.

Looks like a compound turbo idea with that v band design.

 

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21 minutes ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

look at post number 1

On who's dyno. :hide:

:lol:

 

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4 hours ago, Grease Monkey said:

On who's dyno. :hide:

:lol:

 

wait and see #2!:lepro:

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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here im working with installed height of the valve springs. if you look at the retainer in pic 3 you see a lot of room between the underside of the bucket cut away and the top of the retainer.  this is the typical stock set up for a  4 cylinder turbo subie, but they don't need anymore installed height required because there is enough length for multiple spring selections (which consider wire diameter, desired closed valve pressure and desired open valve pressures, and coil bind) this is because the spring base built into the head is far enough away. however in my application, the motor never came  turbo'd , so there was no need for deep spring pockets in the head, so the availability for a spring to meet "all the requirements" needed didn't exist.  So I had custom Titanium retainers made for my application. raising the upper spring seat (the retainer) in pics 2 and 4 you see there is very little space above the retainer to the underside of the bucket, this gave me 2mm more to play with and come up with a proper spring combo.  for example the stock EZ36 valve springs had only 35 psi of seat pressure and 80 psi over the nose.  the new valve spring pressures are closer to 70 psi on the seat and 160 psi over the nose!  that is a lot but think about it. when you have 20 psi of boost behind a closed valve that is 20 "pounds per square inch" also pushing the valve open that was never there before.  I have 36mm intake valves or 1.417" diameter valves, so if the valve is 1.2" diameter on the inside face of the closed valve you have an additional 1.1 sq inches - .037 sq inches for the valve stem diameter, so net 1.063 sq inches that is subjected to 20 psi of boost.  so when the valve is closed, the new spring pressure will loose about 21.26 psi of seat pressure. ( that's 1.063 sq inches X 20 psi)  So my new seat pressure with the new springs are around 70 psi right? subtract the 21.26 psi also pushing the valve open and I get a true Delta of 48.74 psi on the seat. that is only an effective 13.26 psi more seat pressure than the old springs delivered@ 20psi of boost. Now add in the function of higher lift cams and dual springs makes things worse but the titanium retainers makes things a little better.  Its only math

extra credit: the exhaust valve is even subjected to worse.  The exhaust pressure found in the exhaust system at 20 psi of engine boost could be 1.5X more. so at 20 psi I could possibly have 30 psi in my exhaust system trying to push the valve open (but the diameter of the exhaust valve is smaller).  Lets do the math.  Exhaust valve is 32mm or 1.26" in diameter. So the inside face of the valve when closed is about 1.06" diameter.  That's .882 sq inches,  then subtract the stem diameter of .037 leaves .845 sq inches X 30psi give me an exhaust valve spring loss of 25.35 psi.  just a little worse than the intake valve spring loss

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:rbj: that math is way above me, i'm glad you build 'em so we can mash the loud pedal! Amazing build and thanks for all the updates/pics

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12 hours ago, Conrad said:

:rbj: that math is way above me, i'm glad you build 'em so we can mash the loud pedal! Amazing build and thanks for all the updates/pics

Here is the spring at full lift, the thick aluminum spacer represents lift, on this cam that's .410" of lift for a stage 1

other pics of exhaust system progressing. I am not a fan of recirculating the wastegate exhaust but in this case I will because it will help support the long tail pipe with v band clamp.

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Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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Burns race muffler?

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4 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Burns race muffler?

no, I have one, they are pricey, but its bigger in diameter. This is just a knock off cheapie to take the edge off the exhaust note

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1 minute ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

no, I have one, they are pricey, but its bigger in diameter. This is just a knock off cheapie to take the edge off the exhaust note

Nice.

Edge off the exhaust note?  Isn't that what the turbo is for....? :bigrin 

Edited by Rockwood

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3 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Nice.

Edge off the exhaust note?  Isn't that what the turbo is for....? :bigrin 

yes, but a short 90deg pipe is the best (like all rear engines have) but the longer the pipe the more it gets louder and raspier--hence the "edge"

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car is on trailer going to Grant on Monday AM for a few body parts then back home. He was kind enough to work me in his busy schedule

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Went to Funco Today, Grant was gracious enough to squeeze me in, I don't think they are doing this small custom stuff but maybe its cause I drive a Funco :lepro:

Greg is amazingly quick when doing the aluminum work. They hooked me up.  will be working on the rear cage in the AM.  a scoop is next for the intercooler.  I have the old side scoops that will be going back on to break up the large flat side panels

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Cant wait to see this bad boy in action. Beautiful engineering John.

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