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thowell

steering problem

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I have a question that may seem incredibly simple to some of you, but i have no experience in this portion of sand cars and the geometry of it all. This last thanksgiving weekend i had an upper control arm tie-rod give on me. No parts were broken in the process other than that, my brother went and got me a new bolt and i was able to fix it in the dunes fairly effortlessly. What i noticed though once i got back to camp is that the right front where the tie-rod broke, the tire doesn't seem to be in line any longer with the driver side tire. I dont know what got changed in the event, but it is definitely not aligned the way it was before. How do i get it back to both tires shooting straight?

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Do you mean an upper tie-rod heim go out? If so you just need to screw in the new heim further/farther out to get your toe correct. If it isn't threaded in the right length it will push the toe of the tire either further out or pull it in. Tie rods are reverse threads so you can adjust it by loosening the lock nuts and spinning the tie rod by hand

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3 minutes ago, acefuture said:

Do you mean an upper tie-rod heim go out? If so you just need to screw in the new heim further/farther out to get your toe correct. If it isn't threaded in the right length it will push the toe of the tire either further out or pull it in. Tie rods are reverse threads so you can adjust it by loosening the lock nuts and spinning the tie rod by hand

it was the bolt that goes through the frame that broke, but i did have to remove what you are talking about in order to remove the broken bolt from it. I dont know all the lingo sorry about that lol. i must have not threaded in the heim the right amount when i reinstalled. thanks acefuture i knew it would be something simple. 

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So box #1 is what broke correct? And you had to remove the tie-rod (box #2) to get it fixed right? When putting it back together the heims on the tie rod could have turn a time or two and it's now giving you a toe out because it's longer now. I'd imagine if you loosened up the lock nuts on the two tie rod heims and spun the tie rod once, maybe twice it'll put you back in line. You can and should use a flat plate bolted on your hub or a protractor to help you get the alignment correct. There's a few really good threads on here that help describe that. I believe L.R.S has a really good one on here if you search "alignment" 

Screen Shot 2018-11-26 at 4.10.05 PM.png

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9 minutes ago, acefuture said:

So box #1 is what broke correct? And you had to remove the tie-rod (box #2) to get it fixed right? When putting it back together the heims on the tie rod could have turn a time or two and it's now giving you a toe out because it's longer now. I'd imagine if you loosened up the lock nuts on the two tie rod heims and spun the tie rod once, maybe twice it'll put you back in line. You can and should use a flat plate bolted on your hub or a protractor to help you get the alignment correct. There's a few really good threads on here that help describe that. I believe L.R.S has a really good one on here if you search "alignment" 

Screen Shot 2018-11-26 at 4.10.05 PM.png

So you are correct in that box #1 is what broke. Although, I never touched the other box that you outlined in the picture. I was able to lift the tire back up in a way that the upper control arm was lined up. I removed the hiem i believe it is called in the upper control are that broke in order to fix it, then screwed it back into the control arm. I never touched the tie-rod i guess. 

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If nothing was bent when the bolt broke or caused the bolt to break, It sounds like maybe you didn't reinstall the upper heim to the same setting that it was prior to the bolt failure. It would have an effect on tie rod length and that effects toe in. It also will effect camber the angle the tire leans in or out from the car. You may need to reset the toe in, not hard, after you check the camber. A simple angle finder from Harbor Freight can be used for camber. I'm sure you can check out some YouTube on how to adjust toe in but it's just loosen the bolts and turn the rod. 

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5 minutes ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

If nothing was bent when the bolt broke or caused the bolt to break, It sounds like maybe you didn't reinstall the upper heim to the same setting that it was prior to the bolt failure. It would have an effect on tie rod length and that effects toe in. It also will effect camber the angle the tire leans in or out from the car. You may need to reset the toe in, not hard, after you check the camber. A simple angle finder from Harbor Freight can be used for camber. I'm sure you can check out some YouTube on how to adjust toe in but it's just loosen the bolts and turn the rod. 

Nothing seemed harmed, i appreciate the information, and i think you hit it on the head. 

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Yep, like SANDPSYCHO said, Sounds like the heim just didn't get screwed in as far as it was originally. Easy fix

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What caused the bolt to break? I would check to see if the upper and lower a-arm and mounts front and rear on the passengers and drivers side look the same. You may have bent one or both when the bolt broke. Where are you located?

Edited by scott24

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19 minutes ago, scott24 said:

What caused the bolt to break? I would check to see if the upper and lower a-arm and mounts front and rear on the passengers and drivers side look the same. You may have bent one or both when the bolt broke. Where are you located?

The bolt just bent over time and broke, the new one is solid. Im in san diego! 

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I read through this quickly, but here is my 2 cents.

This is how I see it. IF and only if Box #1 is the only thing that was adjusted and nothing else is bent. You actually threaded the new heim in too much. Let me see if I can explain short and sweet.

If you threaded it in too far, you actually pulled the top of the spindle in, the tie rod staying the same length probably actually pushed the tire outward due to its pivot point. 

Again super quick read with gut response. I AM NOT going to debate anything with anyone just throwing out a real quick opinion.

Cheers, Chris

 

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Maybe spindle is bent from whatever he hit to brake the bolt.

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