Jump to content
HBLOWEN

934 CV talk

Recommended Posts

Well, I replaced my 2D with a S5, and after taking my CVs and axles off it looks like I need new 934's. This is my first car, so I've never had to deal with CVs in the past, and I have searched the forum. I've been told to run EMPI's, then told they are junk, told to run the Kartec race preped, but then to run the Lobro stock 934s. So I'm reaching out to you season vets for advice on this. My car is a heavier Desert Dynamics 1" 3/4 car with a CBM 383 and the S5 now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason from Alper motor sports  was very helpful when I was looking and had great prices  as well 

Desert  dynamics and CV ‘s is right up his alley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, indianjoe said:

Jason from Alper motor sports  was very helpful when I was looking and had great prices  as well 

Desert  dynamics and CV ‘s is right up his alley

x2

JAPLER here on the board not only will set you up with the right CV's for your application,  he will have something to meet your budget, and he is probably the most knowledgeable (experienced) with DD cars of anyone around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

X3 for Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

send me a PM I am also pretty familiar with that car, will get you setup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let us know if you still want other opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, lincster said:

Let us know if you still want other opinions.

And yeah its true Jason is not the ONLY supplier of 934's .. so for sake of completeness...

Here is my 2 cents

Lobro/GKN are OE on VW and Porsche and have several models  of CV depending on Application, they vary in quality and materials, some are made in Germany, and some made in Mexico  and South America (mostly Brazil). These are the base most companies use to make RACE versions. They essential polish the race (outside) and the Star  to remove stress risers from manufacturing and this also "loosens" the action to allow more travel without binding and heat, it also allows a bit more grease in the CV to lube and cool.They usually replace the Cage with a Chromo or 300M version for strength when the CV plunges and gets into extreme angles.   The balls are almost alway GKN, but some companies source them from Industrial hardware  makers. Some even crack check the assemblies (especially stars). A few companies like RCV,  Gear One  (gone now),  RBP, and Fortin to name a few made their own CV's in the USA  from "better" materials and hardening processes and in the case or RCV coatings as well. As mentioned before EMPI also makes their own CV's and have several versions. 

In any case CV's should be considered "Consumables" on High HP  and heavy Sand Cars IMO

Angle (up / down and back / front  as its additive), HP/TQ, tire size/tire aggressiveness, car weight, driving habits, and maintenance are what I see as determining factors as to whether CV's last or not, or how much you should spend. 

For instance, if your car is always running at a pretty severe angle you will wear your CV's faster - they will get hotter and the cage will wear faster... same is true with different wear and breakage points due to the other factors. 

Maintenance and grease are HUGE factors that go together.   Grease is a Chevy/Ford argument, everyone has an opinion. I have personally changed grease a dozen times in the last 15 years and definitely use different grease for 930's than I do for 934's. even the boots you use and whether your car is full body or not has an affect on the heat in CV ( heat is a killer).  Changing or adding grease is a trip to trip maintenance point IMO - and don't fill the boot with grease - that just holds the heat in and kills the CV.

Some people swear by Empi's because you can, for the price throw them away at the end of the season rather than clean and rebuild them, others swear they fail constantly... I say its back  to Maintenance and other factors - Personally I think Heat treat from China is less consistent than in the US ( personal testing shows that), but not everyone has a Rockwell hardness tester at home... so some may be great, others not so great, but 934's are overkill in most under 600HP-700HP cases (on lighter cars (under 2700Lbs)

At this point in my Duning life,  I lean toward experience with the particular car and setup in recommendations.... FWIW

 

 

 

Edited by fullthrottleguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, jtmoney714 said:

What’s the budget?

I just want something that will last me with proper maintenance. 

16 hours ago, lincster said:

Let us know if you still want other opinions.

Open ears here.

21 hours ago, J Alper said:

send me a PM I am also pretty familiar with that car, will get you setup

Sounds good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, fullthrottleguy said:

And yeah its true Jason is not the ONLY supplier of 934's .. so for sake of completeness...

Here is my 2 cents

Lobro/GKN are OE on VW and Porsche and have several models  of CV depending on Application, they vary in quality and materials, some are made in Germany, and some made in Mexico  and South America (mostly Brazil). These are the base most companies use to make RACE versions. They essential polish the race (outside) and the Star  to remove stress risers from manufacturing and this also "loosens" the action to allow more travel without binding and heat, it also allows a bit more grease in the CV to lube and cool.They usually replace the Cage with a Chromo or 300M version for strength when the CV plunges and gets into extreme angles.   The balls are almost alway GKN, but some companies source them from Industrial hardware  makers. Some even crack check the assemblies (especially stars). A few companies like RCV,  Gear One  (gone now),  RBP, and Fortin to name a few made their own CV's in the USA  from "better" materials and hardening processes and in the case or RCV coatings as well. As mentioned before EMPI also makes their own CV's and have several versions. 

In any case CV's should be considered "Consumables" on High HP  and heavy Sand Cars IMO

Angle (up / down and back / front  as its additive), HP/TQ, tire size/tire aggressiveness, car weight, driving habits, and maintenance are what I see as determining factors as to whether CV's last or not, or how much you should spend. 

For instance, if your car is always running at a pretty severe angle you will wear your CV's faster - they will get hotter and the cage will wear faster... same is true with different wear and breakage points due to the other factors. 

Maintenance and grease are HUGE factors that go together.   Grease is a Chevy/Ford argument, everyone has an opinion. I have personally changed grease a dozen times in the last 15 years and definitely use different grease for 930's than I do for 934's. even the boots you use and whether your car is full body or not has an affect on the heat in CV ( heat is a killer).  Changing or adding grease is a trip to trip maintenance point IMO - and don't fill the boot with grease - that just holds the heat in and kills the CV.

Some people swear by Empi's because you can, for the price throw them away at the end of the season rather than clean and rebuild them, others swear they fail constantly... I say its back  to Maintenance and other factors - Personally I think Heat treat from China is less consistent than in the US ( personal testing shows that), but not everyone has a Rockwell hardness tester at home... so some may be great, others not so great, but 934's are overkill in most under 600HP-700HP cases (on lighter cars (under 2700Lbs)

At this point in my Duning life,  I lean toward experience with the particular car and setup in recommendations.... FWIW

 

 

 

Thanks for the kick ass response!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GKN cvs are pretty good if you polish them up on the inside before yo use them. Empi cvs are really not too bad either if you don't overly abuse them.

Fwiw, I just bought a set of Tatum midboard hubs that came fitted with GKN cvs.  Personally I think all of the "designer, ultimate, triple throwdown" cvs aren't worth what they sell for but that's just opinion.

Edited by fortyfour

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only issue I have with GKN is the price and quality, we drill Cv's all the time for zerks and 25% of the time we get a gkn that is supper soft the a standard drill bit goes right threw, if that happens we send the CV back to the owner and tell them the body is to soft to run

I do not have a Rockwell tester but that would be the best for any GKN 934,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2018 at 10:28 PM, Sand tourS said:

Pictures of old cv?

I gave them to a friend who had new stars, cages, and balls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:45 PM, HBLOWEN said:

Well, I replaced my 2D with a S5, and after taking my CVs and axles off it looks like I need new 934's. This is my first car, so I've never had to deal with CVs in the past, and I have searched the forum. I've been told to run EMPI's, then told they are junk, told to run the Kartec race preped, but then to run the Lobro stock 934s. So I'm reaching out to you season vets for advice on this. My car is a heavier Desert Dynamics 1" 3/4 car with a CBM 383 and the S5 now.

With the DD's its all a bout the builder. Its awesome that you have a 1.3/4 chasiss and a s5  if your a other than sand guy,  . That said where is your engine and trans ? Offset? . Lots of stuff to learn about besides CV's. If you have 934's that's a good start. It all depends on how you drive and what tires your running too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

300M stars for sure imo. 

Chrome moly cages or 300M. 

Race prep everything. 

I agree about grease and maintenance. 

I check/add grease every 3-4 trips. 

Clean/service them every summer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 3000# DD with a PBS S5, midboards and 934's.  I got a set of RCV full 300M from Alper and had them drilled for zerks.  (I highly recommend zerks!) Zerks make my life so much easier!  I've run them for two seasons now and they are holding up pretty good.  I have seen some pitting in the stars and on a few balls after both seasons, so I went and got some 300M Fortin stars and balls.  I've talked to a lot of Class 1 race guys that say the Fortins hold up the best but they are more money.  I will replace the RCV cages with Forin cages next year also.  My cages show very minor (normal) wear but the CV bodies still look like new.  I'm taking all my slightly worn RCV parts and making good spares.  I have no real complaints with the RCV 300M....but I'm hoping the Fortin stars last a little longer.  

Two season on these 300M RCV's....not bad at all.

IMG_0223[1].JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, jwest2sh said:

I have a 3000# DD with a PBS S5, midboards and 934's.  I got a set of RCV full 300M from Alper and had them drilled for zerks.  (I highly recommend zerks!) Zerks make my life so much easier!  I've run them for two seasons now and they are holding up pretty good.  I have seen some pitting in the stars and on a few balls after both seasons, so I went and got some 300M Fortin stars and balls.  I've talked to a lot of Class 1 race guys that say the Fortins hold up the best but they are more money.  I will replace the RCV cages with Forin cages next year also.  My cages show very minor (normal) wear but the CV bodies still look like new.  I'm taking all my slightly worn RCV parts and making good spares.  I have no real complaints with the RCV 300M....but I'm hoping the Fortin stars last a little longer.  

Two season on these 300M RCV's....not bad at all.

IMG_0223[1].JPG

 

 

I am a fortin dealer and love fortin dealer, but on jetjock car the Empi star outlasted the Fortin star, the Fortin star broke in half with a naturally asperated motor, pitting on the balls might be a little to much angle

have owned 4 DD cars and most have to much angle but I would have more angle and less CV Life, I am more about the travel at the end of the day, and not the life of the CV,

I have ran the RCV, GKN stock, GKN from Kartek, and the EMPI 934,   the EMPI 930 is one of the worst cv's I have seen and the EMPI 934 seems to be the best,

6 cars in camp run the EMPI from us and so far after 8 years on multiple cars non have fractured, one car is Metal Tech car with a 440CI-Whipple 4.0 on 12lbs of boost this car has split a Mendi S4 in half and the CV still have not broke,  mine is a 3600lbs car with a 454LSx and brakes the rivets out of a dual 9'' but no CV failure, others are itsweeks on a 3600lb car with a 416, and Robs fullPotential with LSX 454, He broke the fortin but the empi stayed in tack

I sell about 20 a year of the EMPI 934 and non have fractured so far,

I have been told the EMPI pits easier than the GKN but the GKN is 3 times the price,

we drill zerks to help keep the grease in it

no difference from a motor if the CV runs out of grease only take about a minute or two and they are pitted, 

we grease them every trip or twice a trip and we do not get pitting in our EMPI joints

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any luck with the greaser plates that bolt on to the trans side ??. Never had a problem with 934 ctr brd. side  CV's as long as I periodically  take the cover off and scrap the grease back into the CV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I talked to Jason last spring about this.  I trusted him and spent $400 on 4 new 934 not 1 but all 4.  Trip to St. Anthony's and about 4 trips to glamis and I took one apart and it looks new.  So far saving $1200 on CV's is good to me.  running 600hp on a 2600lb car.  Grease and good angle and I don't worry about them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Squatcher said:

I talked to Jason last spring about this.  I trusted him and spent $400 on 4 new 934 not 1 but all 4.  Trip to St. Anthony's and about 4 trips to glamis and I took one apart and it looks new.  So far saving $1200 on CV's is good to me.  running 600hp on a 2600lb car.  Grease and good angle and I don't worry about them.  

My car too. I hate to say this but , WORD^^^.  Nail on the head.

You cant argue with proper CV angle, HP, Trans, Tires = reliability. Now that said.. How many of you have this ?. How hard or soft do you ride or drive, night or day ! or where..-

Now be an engine or tranny builder and ask that question.. Good night. LOL

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:40 PM, sandhammerer said:

My car too. I hate to say this but , WORD^^^.  Nail on the head.

You cant argue with proper CV angle, HP, Trans, Tires = reliability. Now that said.. How many of you have this ?. How hard or soft do you ride or drive, night or day ! or where..-

Now be an engine or tranny builder and ask that question.. Good night. LOL

 

Sandhammer I pretty sure Paul is saying to contact my about drilling the CV for Zerks not CV angle LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:06 PM, J Alper said:

Sandhammer I pretty sure Paul is saying to contact my about drilling the CV for Zerks not CV angle LOL

You missed my reply about " Greaser plates ". seems to me adding a 3/8" alum. plate that has a couple of zerk fittings will do better then a drilled and weak'nd CV, ? But that said , it is a bit more of a hassell to shorten 12 CV bolts an eighth of an inch. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sandhammerer said:

You missed my reply about " Greaser plates ". seems to me adding a 3/8" alum. plate that has a couple of zerk fittings will do better then a drilled and weak'nd CV, ? But that said , it is a bit more of a hassell to shorten 12 CV bolts an eighth of an inch. LOL

I was just trying to ignore the 3/8 plate commet,

super bad idea, not sure how a .030 hole would really weaken a CV when some run a lightened CV and cut 30% out of them

But I can see how adding a soft aluminum plate to a forged flanged and temped CV body would destroy it them use a non CV bolt like a allen that is 7/16 and not the correct 12MM shank with 7/16 would cause more harm

or if you are running the 1/2 bolts and using aluminum 3/8 loosener between the two would crack the plates after drilled,

but what do I know LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, J Alper said:

I was just trying to ignore the 3/8 plate commet,

super bad idea, not sure how a .030 hole would really weaken a CV when some run a lightened CV and cut 30% out of them

But I can see how adding a soft aluminum plate to a forged flanged and temped CV body would destroy it them use a non CV bolt like a allen that is 7/16 and not the correct 12MM shank with 7/16 would cause more harm

or if you are running the 1/2 bolts and using aluminum 3/8 loosener between the two would crack the plates after drilled,

but what do I know LOL

All I know is, I'm using  the 1/2 "  bolt 934 CV's @ 105ftlbs with no loctic and no 930/934 adapter BS and  the bates boots. And the softer than steel Greaser alum. plates and have had no problems. 

I might do more off season maintenance then most LOL

Loosener ? really ? now that's some funny lol shit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

More Links

©2001 GlamisDunes.com.
All rights reserved.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.