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Jonesin'

2" Hollows

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Advantages and disadvantages to going up to 2" hollows from combo spindles? Is it overkill? My car weighs in at 1570 but, I'll be increasing horsepower next winter which means more wheelie time. I'm just trying to get some info and "do's and don't's" Thanks in advance 

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You’d be fine as it is. 

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Posted (edited)

The advantages of a 2" hollow front spindle have been well documented.  I don't know how much more useful information you are looking for that hasn't been discussed in great detail already. Combo spindles are generally reliable with 8.80  or smaller tires, anything bigger and you are on borrowed time. The advantages of 2" hollow spindles - they are much stronger. The disadvantages - the hubs and brakes cost more if you already have combos. Not too much more than that. It's all a matter of your comfort level with your machine and how much risk you are willing to take, and how far your budget will allow you to go with what you are building. 

 

My car is 2500lbs and I still have combo spindles with 8.80 tires, and I dune it relatively hard. I oversaw the construction of my front spindles and I know the capabilities of the person who tig welded them together and I am comfortable using them in the manner that I do. If I had purchased a car or spindles from an unknown source I would have had 2" hollows already. My point is, not all spindles are created equally, not all "fabricators" are capable of a strong weld without compromise. Pretty weld beads that everybody oohs and ahhs about are usually the ones that will let go  because they were nothing more than pretty. A 2" hollow is stronger because the welded surface area is greater than a combo snout, however a properly welded combo snout can be very strong if used within it's physical limits.

 

Does your 1600lb car need 2" hollow spindles? Probably not, but we have no idea what you are going to try and do with it. 

 

 

Edited by fortyfour

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Thats a really light car.. Unless you drive around with 4 300Lb plus people  - its definitely on the light side....

While I recommend 2" Hollows for safety whenever people put big tires on.. with that light a car, you might be OK. 

 

Hollows have 2 main advantages  IMO:

1. Super strong - spindles take lots of load concentrated in small area - Hollow fix a lot of breakage problems without putting strain on other front end components

2. The bearing  and seals last forever since they are big and the load is distributed across a larger surface area

 

They also have 1 main disadvantage IMO:

1. They cost a lot to change over if you already have good Combo spindles and hubs - you have to replace the spindles - thats usually either new uprights and spindle snouts or have the spindle snouts chopped off and replaced  - you also have to buy new hub and possibly rotors and Calipers/ In some cases like RBP you can just change the hbs and caps and keep the rest....

Think of it as $1000-2000 safety investment

In your case I "might" consider just taking off the uprights and having them "Magged" for cracks if you have go to bigger tires/ If they come back good ...  that light a car...   maybe risk it

I would say that 33 Blaster s on your 2.0 Subi are gonna be too much tire anyway after looking at your car - you should  try before you buy and then maybe you won't need the Hollow's.

 

 

 

 

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the big issue with combos is no one ever checks them like the post that Alex had on axles,

the other issue with a combo is that it has very little mounting surface, for me I would not want a combo on my car unless I had a 8.80 and never a dirt tire, the disadvantages can be one ore can be a advantage the kit make the front about 1'' wider per side,

I have seen snouts break and everyone laugh it off personally when someone knows it a weak point and it breaks and the group spends half a day to get the car back it just causes tension in our group and is a little inconsiderate

I am not sure if there is any overkill in the front of a car, if the front stays together the rear will follow,

we all remember what happen to the Lightening McQueen car, and the driver,   I am at the point in my life where I want to work on the car at the house not at the dunes,     

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Another idea is to go to King Kongs. 

If your hubs can be machined to accept the larger bearings and snouts you can reuse everything else. 

Stronger than combos but less expensive than 2” hollows. 

I did this on my 2,000 pound mid-engine 2 seat car and run 10.50 fronts. 

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The only real issue with king Kong’s is you really don’t gain any real strength 

the mai reason why is the mounting area 

the weld mounting area is almost the same on the snout so you might not break the snout but the weld cracks over time and can fail. 

Tipically the 2” hollow has 4.3 times the weld area and does not fail 

in my opinion Heims snouts and steering boxes you do not pinch pennies on. 

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Thanks or the info guys! I usually don't "beat" my car or drive it hard. However, I do like to bring the front end up on a roller once in a while...  

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this is the size difference

IMG_6521.JPG

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I personally had combo spindles on my car when i bought it. upgraded the tires the 10.75 and two trips i broke a combo. I knew it was coming but the switch was simple but expensive and also worth the peace of mind. thankfully i have the tatum billet spindles so it was a simple bolt on switch for the spindle and after the break i needed new brake disc, caliper anyways so purchasing the new hub kit was acceptable. As i said it is worth the peace of mind to have the larger spindles.

 

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the picture make the hollow look really big but in reality the hollow is not super big,

the combo is just very small,

it is based off a 1970's vw spindle

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1 minute ago, loboboy said:

I personally had combo spindles on my car when i bought it. upgraded the tires the 10.75 and two trips i broke a combo. I knew it was coming but the switch was simple but expensive and also worth the peace of mind. thankfully i have the tatum billet spindles so it was a simple bolt on switch for the spindle and after the break i needed new brake disc, caliper anyways so purchasing the new hub kit was acceptable. As i said it is worth the peace of mind to have the larger spindles.

 

 

it is about $1600 for the 4 piston brakes, wildwood pads, wildwood calipers Kartek cap, or our cap, 4340 snouts 4340 nuts, 3/8 backing plates for snouts and caliper mounts, mounted on your upright

IMG_6482.JPG

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10 hours ago, J Alper said:

The only real issue with king Kong’s is you really don’t gain any real strength 

the mai reason why is the mounting area 

the weld mounting area is almost the same on the snout so you might not break the snout but the weld cracks over time and can fail. 

Tipically the 2” hollow has 4.3 times the weld area and does not fail 

in my opinion Heims snouts and steering boxes you do not pinch pennies on. 

Jason,

Would you please post up the actual diameter and/or circumference of the combo and King Kong at the weld area. I think it would be beneficial for all concerned to know what the differences are between the three types. 

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, J Alper said:

 

it is about $1600 for the 4 piston brakes, wildwood pads, wildwood calipers Kartek cap, or our cap, 4340 snouts 4340 nuts, 3/8 backing plates for snouts and caliper mounts, mounted on your upright

IMG_6482.JPG

Are these all new or are they just new 2 inch hollows on the old up right?

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I beat on my combo spindles for 10 years with 8.50 tires (if it matters) before I cracked one. I think it was more of a case of going faster leading and hitting those unexpected hard hits. 

My car weights in the 2500lbs range. I typically lead and get no heads up of witch eyes and drop offs. I'm not going to slow down so I went to 2" hollows. Almost all the cars behind me are combos. 

Is it worth the money is a question for each car owner.

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Anyone who has made the upgrade notice a difference in the way the car handles, due to the added weight? 

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6 hours ago, J Alper said:

 

it is about $1600 for the 4 piston brakes, wildwood pads, wildwood calipers Kartek cap, or our cap, 4340 snouts 4340 nuts, 3/8 backing plates for snouts and caliper mounts, mounted on your upright

IMG_6482.JPG

PM sent

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22 hours ago, Jonesin' said:

Advantages and disadvantages to going up to 2" hollows from combo spindles? Is it overkill? My car weighs in at 1570 but, I'll be increasing horsepower next winter which means more wheelie time. I'm just trying to get some info and "do's and don't's" Thanks in advance 

Save your money for the Trans upgrade you'll need after more HP.

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I'll be able to do both next winter. I'll be good until then 

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9 hours ago, Drupanddown said:

Anyone who has made the upgrade notice a difference in the way the car handles, due to the added weight? 

 

if your car handle different for 5lb a side, then I think there might be something else going on,  

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12 minutes ago, J Alper said:

 

if your car handle different for 5lb a side, then I think there might be something else going on,  

I would 100% agree - I did not even think it was 5Lbs more like 3...

The handling difference most people experience is due to the reason they went Hollows - that is larger tire size. That can have positive and negative effects.  the larger tire (assuming the  alignment is not changed (caster and camber mostly)  will make the car want to turn in easier and this especially on a short wheelbase car will make the car oversteer to some extent. The tire weight is usually insignificant unless you are going from say an 8.50 to a 35 baja, that could even affect your shock valving. The last thing a lot of people with light cars experience is with larger tires and no PS , the  steering wheels wants to pull out of your hands, especially on  hard transitions and witches eyes.  While bigger diameter tire roll over terrain better, they do  have more surface area to catch a WE or stepped transition

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19 hours ago, Drupanddown said:

Anyone who has made the upgrade notice a difference in the way the car handles, due to the added weight? 

No.

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i snapped a combo spindle off with 8.80's on my first LT car.  i was just happy it happened clicking 3rd starting into a dune ride up the first dune, and not doing 100 +across a set of whoops or hauling down a hill. I am sure driving styles have  a lot to do with how long they last, but most of us out playing in the sand seem to really like the pedal on the right. if it can be afforded i would suggest the conversion.

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5 hours ago, sandroosten said:

i snapped a combo spindle off with 8.80's on my first LT car.  i was just happy it happened clicking 3rd starting into a dune ride up the first dune, and not doing 100 +across a set of whoops or hauling down a hill. I am sure driving styles have  a lot to do with how long they last, but most of us out playing in the sand seem to really like the pedal on the right. if it can be afforded i would suggest the conversion.

I'm in the talks of getting it done while I have it stripped down for paint.

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Jason

Can you do your existing spindles, buy new hubs and calipers?

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