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Dennis58

Sandrail purphase question

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I have been trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible during my sand car research and during my internet travels I read where someone here posted "buy all the suspension and transmission you can afford" because you can always make more power.

1) I guess that means at a minimum I need a 2D trans while a 4S would be better. 

2) At a minimum I need 930 CV's while 934 would be better.

3) King 2.5" bypass shocks

4) 2" Hollows

 So assuming the above is correct what is the magic travel number when looking at cars assuming more travel is better?

Thanks

Dennis

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Know that whatever travel numbers are being listed in a for sale add are a lie.  That being said there is no magic number to make one car better then another. Also, the geometry has to be right for the suspension to work properly.  

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Deal of the decade right here 

 

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38 minutes ago, L.R.S. said:

Know that whatever travel numbers are being listed in a for sale add are a lie.  That being said there is no magic number to make one car better then another. Also, the geometry has to be right for the suspension to work properly.  

Exactly what Jeff just posted.

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53 minutes ago, Dennis58 said:

I have been trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible during my sand car research and during my internet travels I read where someone here posted "buy all the suspension and transmission you can afford" because you can always make more power.

1) I guess that means at a minimum I need a 2D trans while a 4S would be better. 

2) At a minimum I need 930 CV's while 934 would be better.

3) King 2.5" bypass shocks

4) 2" Hollows

 So assuming the above is correct what is the magic travel number when looking at cars assuming more travel is better?

Thanks

Dennis

How much has your budget gone up?  I recall $20k in the other thread. Big parts will cost more $$$. Plus a heavier car.  Do you want to just dune or run the drags and hill?  A lighter weight car with a 2d, reasonable weight, and limited torque will work great. And more fun in the dunes.  Best money you ever spend might be to ride in some different cars to get a better idea what YOU would want for the dunes.

And to add: More travel does not make a car work and handle better in the dunes. There are a lot of differences in geometry in different cars and how they work. Sure maybe better in the whoops on some cars but they won't turn as well and push the front end in corners. 

Edited by onanysunday

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It also depends on your repair budget as well.  Bigger car requires bigger parts.  A stock LS1 with a 2d and 930's do not require much in upkeep unless you drive it really hard and sidestep the clutch.  There is a big difference repairing a 2d vs a S4, and also 934's to 930's.  300 hp can get you around the dunes in a 2000lb or under car with a big smile.

 

I would start by looking at chassis that have a track record and most likely still in business, stay away from the home builts.  The from there look at the tranny, engine, suspension............in that order are my thoughts.

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3 minutes ago, Cookie said:

It also depends on your repair budget as well.  Bigger car requires bigger parts.  A stock LS1 with a 2d and 930's do not require much in upkeep unless you drive it really hard and sidestep the clutch.  There is a big difference repairing a 2d vs a S4, and also 934's to 930's.  300 hp can get you around the dunes in a 2000lb or under car with a big smile.

 

I would start by looking at chassis that have a track record and most likely still in business, stay away from the home builts.  The from there look at the tranny, engine, suspension............in that order are my thoughts.

I will argue that some home built are ok. Just stay away from the ones that are built with galvanized pipe and fittings, or that galvanized would have been an upgraded model.

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The question wasn't so much about budget, power or weight but more about trying to understand travel. I think LRS answered my question.

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Set your budget leaving enough for repairs, etc.  

Buy something that you’ll have no trouble selling, even if you lose a little money.

Over time You’ll either get a more expensive car or you’ll get out of the sport. 

For example, the wife and I argued for years about sand rails and Glamis trips. We are now getting a divorce. She gets the house and I get the sand rail. 🙂

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2 hours ago, Cookie said:

It also depends on your repair budget as well.  Bigger car requires bigger parts.  A stock LS1 with a 2d and 930's do not require much in upkeep unless you drive it really hard and sidestep the clutch.  There is a big difference repairing a 2d vs a S4, and also 934's to 930's.  300 hp can get you around the dunes in a 2000lb or under car with a big smile.

 

I would start by looking at chassis that have a track record and most likely still in business, stay away from the home builts.  The from there look at the tranny, engine, suspension............in that order are my thoughts.

Yes, I will be targeting a stock LS1, 2D, 930's type car that is well maintained with no major issues. No crazy driving type stuff, I have nothing to prove.

Funny you should mention "chassis that have a track record and most likely still in business" as I'm still getting my brain around the "good" brand names. If I understand what I'm reading correctly the LS1 cars were for the most part were built 8-10 years ago?????

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2 minutes ago, Dennis58 said:

Yes, I will be targeting a stock LS1, 2D, 930's type car that is well maintained with no major issues. No crazy driving type stuff, I have nothing to prove.

Funny you should mention "chassis that have a track record and most likely still in business" as I'm still getting my brain around the "good" brand names. If I understand what I'm reading correctly the LS1 cars were for the most part were built 8-10 years ago?????

They are for sure a lot of 10-12 year old cars that fit the bill, some older.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/covina-scu-long-travel-sand-rail/6805601677.html

or here are two Potter's

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/newbury-park-potter-ls1-dunne-buggy/6806322372.html

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/riverside-potter-dual-sport-sandrail/6804327632.html

Ricochet, not a big fan of this car, drove it once, didn't turn well...........maybe the set up???

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/temecula-2006-ricochet-sand-car/6790273240.html

Extreme makes a great car, and they are still in business.  I have driven a few, they always surprise me for a big car.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/indio-extreme-performance-eco-1/6786458512.html

 

These might be a little over your budget, but should give you a good start.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dennis58 said:

I have been trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible during my sand car research and during my internet travels I read where someone here posted "buy all the suspension and transmission you can afford" because you can always make more power.

1) I guess that means at a minimum I need a 2D trans while a 4S would be better. 

2) At a minimum I need 930 CV's while 934 would be better.

3) King 2.5" bypass shocks

4) 2" Hollows

 So assuming the above is correct what is the magic travel number when looking at cars assuming more travel is better?

Thanks

Dennis

This is just my Opinion,

first how much work and up front cost is what you need to decide on,

for example a 2D is a good trany but if you dune allot the maintenance will be more over time than a S4 have seen a S4 go 10 year in a sand car with a stock LS1  and that same setup only last 1.5 - 2.5 years in a 2D,

For me my time is limited, I will not work or own 930 joints and axles, it really is just a waist of time and money,  930 cars always talk about broken cv and axles, 934 guys talk about getting more HP and duning

Shocks, fox and king make a good shock if setup correctly a single shock car works good,

2'' hollows will allow piece of mind for a 8.80 and 8.50 tire a 10.50 10.75 tire is a must for 2'' hollows

Everyone says "my car has 100'' of travel blaa blaa blaa,"  Most cars only have 20" travel in the rear with micro stubs,  you can pretty much determine the usable travel with axle length and tire size "ground clearance"  so don't let them fool you when they do not have outboards and say the car has 26'' of travel,   MY DD Prerunner when cycled only has 19.5 with midboards, and the front has 19.5'' of travel with 12'' bypasses,  again it is about how the shock is  setup not the travel,   many cars in Dakar only have 10'' of travel,

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1 hour ago, Flip-Flop said:

For example, the wife and I argued for years about sand rails and Glamis trips. We are now getting a divorce. She gets the house and I get the sand rail. 🙂

I’d say you made out ok on that one. 👍🏽

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the other part to consider is life cycle,

if you have to switch the 2D to a S4 or do big motor upgrades, you can spend 10K easy in labor and parts, I have seen people purchase $15,000 cars and put $20,000 and only have a $25,000 car,

for me driving them is more fun then refab or working on them, So if you can purchase a nicer car, it might make the sport more enjoyable

some starter cars wear people out then they end up in a SXS, where a nicer car people get hooked on driving a Sand Car,

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As said above by a couple of reputable guys. 

Travel numbers dont matter that much. Most are inflate their numbers to make it sound plush. Correct geometry is much more important. Most overly inflated travel numbers just eat CVs anyway. A proper 18" car with kingpin incline, bumpsteer, Ackerman,  etc etc will out handle a 24" all day. A proper car with good suspension will also be faster with  smaller motor than a bad big motor, big suspension car.  Not all big name cars are proper. Most have it down by now but not all. 

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28 minutes ago, J Alper said:

I have seen people purchase $15,000 cars and put $20,000 and only have a $25,000 car,

Sounds like my Mid Year Corvette hobby (sickness). :)

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36 minutes ago, J Alper said:

For me my time is limited, I will not work or own 930 joints and axles, it really is just a waist of time and money,  930 cars always talk about broken cv and axles, 934 guys talk about getting more HP and duning

So the whole 930 vs. 934 argument is not just a matter of replacing the 930 CV with a 934 CV, you have to replace the stub axle (spindle), transmission drive flange, axle and CV?

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44 minutes ago, J Alper said:

Some starter cars wear people out then they end up in a SXS, where a nicer car people get hooked on driving a Sand Car,

One of my starter cars, once your 50% in you can't stop and have no choice but to throw another $$$$ at it until it's done. :)

65 Chassis Before.JPG

65 After.JPG

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2 hours ago, Flip-Flop said:

Set your budget leaving enough for repairs, etc.  

Buy something that you’ll have no trouble selling, even if you lose a little money.

Over time You’ll either get a more expensive car or you’ll get out of the sport. 

For example, the wife and I argued for years about sand rails and Glamis trips. We are now getting a divorce. She gets the house and I get the sand rail. 🙂

Have a friend who put $ in his sandrail while the wife got body parts. They got divorced and she still got half the rail! He got no body parts! :lol:

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12 minutes ago, Dennis58 said:

So the whole 930 vs. 934 argument is not just a matter of replacing the 930 CV with a 934 CV, you have to replace the stub axle (spindle), transmission drive flange, axle and CV?

Correct.  You have to change everything.

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2 hours ago, Cookie said:

They are for sure a lot of 10-12 year old cars that fit the bill, some older.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/covina-scu-long-travel-sand-rail/6805601677.html

or here are two Potter's

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/newbury-park-potter-ls1-dunne-buggy/6806322372.html

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/riverside-potter-dual-sport-sandrail/6804327632.html

Ricochet, not a big fan of this car, drove it once, didn't turn well...........maybe the set up???

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/temecula-2006-ricochet-sand-car/6790273240.html

Extreme makes a great car, and they are still in business.  I have driven a few, they always surprise me for a big car.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/snw/d/indio-extreme-performance-eco-1/6786458512.html

 

These might be a little over your budget, but should give you a good start.

 

 

Those are some nice well priced cars. The SCU and Extream are excellent cars. I really surprised to see the Extream priced at only 30k. Saddam usually prices his a car like that much higher. 

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934s are way more money and take power to turn them. I have a 2005 Funco with 930s and beat on my car pretty hard. I broke my 2d 5 times before putting the S4 in this past summer. Easily 10k plus hard dune miles on my car and I just flipped the ORIGINAL 930s season before last. I assume part of that is how the car is designed with the axle angle helping them to live. I even broke a 300m axle a few years ago. Deburred the CV that got nicked and put it back in.  Some cars out there will eat CVs much faster due to the design.  As far as the 2d vs S4 discussion I would agree if you can go in up front and afford an S4 car it would be worth it. Especially a v8 car. If I remember right the 2d numbers were adjusted to a max rating of 375 hp. The V8s have so much torque and that is what kills them. The gears are just so much smaller. I broke 2nd gear twice and that gear is only around a little over 2 inches diameter with 14 teeth.  Oh and reverse needs to be treated like a piece of glass.  Last two trips out in wet sand I was thinking if I still had the 2d I would be wondering when it was going to break again. And that is with a V6 turbo with a softer torque curve. If you found an S4 car 934s would most likely be part of the package. Like I said before, if you haven't done it you should ride in some cars before deciding. Plenty of peeps that will take you for a dune run. You would be surprised how fun an 1800lb 2 seater with a subie and 2d is.  If you have ridden in a stock ls1 car and like it then by all means go for it. For me one ride in a Funco and I was ruined.

 

https://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?/forums/topic/318115-two-broken-funcos-at-once-long-day/

https://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?/forums/topic/314932-cv-milage-maintenance-grease-thread/

My 2d broke thread chronicling some of the pain and suffering. I do not miss my 2d one bit. Last time I broke a tooth off of 4th gear and said uncle that weekend. https://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?/forums/topic/199652-mendeola-2d-broke-again/&

 

 

 

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Pretty sure this was my broken 4th gear. 

20190201_145913.jpg

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9 minutes ago, onanysunday said:

If you found an S4 car 934s would most likely be part of the package. Like I said before, if you haven't done it you should ride in some cars before deciding. Plenty of peeps that will take you for a dune run. You would be surprised how fun an 1800lb 2 seater with a subie and 2d is.  If you have ridden in a stock ls1 car and like it then by all means go for it. For me one ride in a Funco and I was ruined.

Yes I am planning a road trip to Glamis but not this season as the wife is on work travel for the next 4 months so I'm the stay home dog (Golden & Plott Hound) dad. I was thinking on the way home about 934's and thought that setup on a 2D trans would just shift the weak link to the trans vice the CV. 

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41 minutes ago, Dennis58 said:

Yes I am planning a road trip to Glamis but not this season as the wife is on work travel for the next 4 months so I'm the stay home dog (Golden & Plott Hound) dad. I was thinking on the way home about 934's and thought that setup on a 2D trans would just shift the weak link to the trans vice the CV. 

I did a lot of work with adapters to go from a 934 output shaft to a 930 cv. To much money to go to the bigger CVs for me. 

Pics of rings here:

https://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?/forums/topic/357138-2d-to-s4-gen-4-funco-build-thread/&do=findComment&comment=5169635

Machining here:

https://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?/forums/topic/357138-2d-to-s4-gen-4-funco-build-thread/&do=findComment&comment=5169861

 

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